Ukraine

bianchimoon

Surely Russia have to much tied up financially in the rest of the world to not back off soon? There again, how would we survive if they cut off gas/oil, who would blink first? One things for sure keep China onside and hopefully russia not wanting to be cut off from the world's economic community will make them think twice.
Having said that If I was a Russian i'd be saying 'hyporcrits ' jbombing Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan was not a lot different?

bianchimoon

The way the rouble is dropping it will be interesting how powerful a weapon economic stability/prosperity is in the post cold war world

VTech

bianchimoon wrote:

The way the rouble is dropping it will be interesting how powerful a weapon economic stability/prosperity is in the post cold war world

Think about what you have just wrote !!!!!!!!

bianchimoon

VTech wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

The way the rouble is dropping it will be interesting how powerful a weapon economic stability/prosperity is in the post cold war world

Think about what you have just wrote !!!!!!!!

? eh? have I said something daft?

VTech

bianchimoon wrote:

VTech wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

The way the rouble is dropping it will be interesting how powerful a weapon economic stability/prosperity is in the post cold war world

Think about what you have just wrote !!!!!!!!

? eh? have I said something daft?

No, the opposite, your point is almost certainly going to be the most valid during this conflict.
When currency goes down, people make billions !
The hard part about currency dealing is knowing when currency will decrease in value, that is unless you know war is about to break out.

Too often people think money is made from currency increasing in value but how many people do you know or have you heard about who have made a fortune from this ?
Now look at the loss of currency value and you see the vast riches gained overnight.

sorry for the confusion btw.

bianchimoon

Very good point but on a larger scale I was thinking more of Gazprom shares dropping, rouble at all time low against the dollar/Euro, Russians buying up dollars and the huge sell off on the russian stock exchange due to uncertainty and am hoping It's to much of a price to pay for the russian economy in the long term to let it continue?

mamba80

Why do you think there will be a long term or even short term conflict?
Would the west risk a war with a nuclear power? they didnt over Georgia and its highly unlikely they will over this.

For all the rhetoric, we have no interests in the area that the Soviets cant look after, sorry Russians, they ll make sure there is no Islamist extremists moving in.

yes they ll be the usually posturing and maybe we wont go to the Paralympics also maybe some G8 stuff but that will be all....i hope!

VTech

A gun doesn't need to be fired to do all the damage I mentioned above.

markhewitt1978

mamba80 wrote:

Why do you think there will be a long term or even short term conflict?
Would the west risk a war with a nuclear power? they didnt over Georgia and its highly unlikely they will over this.

For all the rhetoric, we have no interests in the area that the Soviets cant look after, sorry Russians, they ll make sure there is no Islamist extremists moving in.

yes they ll be the usually posturing and maybe we wont go to the Paralympics also maybe some G8 stuff but that will be all....i hope!

As long as they stick to just Crimea, then that will be the likely outcome. After all what can the west do realistically? Crimea won't become part of Russia but becoming independent would be quite likely.

bianchimoon

markhewitt1978 wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

Why do you think there will be a long term or even short term conflict?
Would the west risk a war with a nuclear power? they didnt over Georgia and its highly unlikely they will over this.

For all the rhetoric, we have no interests in the area that the Soviets cant look after, sorry Russians, they ll make sure there is no Islamist extremists moving in.

yes they ll be the usually posturing and maybe we wont go to the Paralympics also maybe some G8 stuff but that will be all....i hope!

As long as they stick to just Crimea, then that will be the likely outcome. After all what can the west do realistically? Crimea won't become part of Russia but becoming independent would be quite likely.

I agree, it's always been pretty much an ethnic russian place anyway, Now the russians have given the go ahead to build a bridge between Crimea and Russia. Hit em with financial sanctions if need be and hope it goes no further

finchy

The West will, hopefully, realise that Crimea isn't worth WW3 over. It'll become a Russian client kingdom but with quite a few EU members having large Russian populations, this could seriously strain EU-Russian relations.

I also hope that Russia will resist war with Ukraine. They really can't afford it.

thegreatdivide

See BBC News latest update.

And hasn’t China just said they’re backing Russia?

But hey - they put on a lovely Winter Olympics. Best one ever allegedly.





*Someone needs to ‘out’ Putin fast.

bianchimoon

thegreatdivide wrote:

See BBC News latest update.

And hasn’t China just said they’re backing Russia?

But hey - they put on a lovely Winter Olympics. Best one ever allegedly.





*Someone needs to ‘out’ Putin fast.

think china sad "broadly in agreement with Russia" can't say much else really as they annexed Tibet and have desires for disputed Japan territory

markhewitt1978

Much like when the flying saucers encircled the earth, we're just waiting for it all to kick off. Russia has said Crimea has until 3am to surrender.

mr_goo

What I find incredulous is that Obama/Kerry/Camoron/Hague are all pointing fingers at Russia, claiming that it has 'invaded' a sovereign state and their will be consequences.
Was it not the USA and UK that invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and used military power to assist Libyan revolution. All three countries are now complete basket cases, where Islamic extremism and corruption is rife. They wanted to stick their bl88dy noses into Syria but got vetoed (thankfully). Who are the real war mongers?

The West should keep their noses out of this one for once.

bianchimoon

Is it possible an east west split Ukraine and west telling Ukraine to accept without using force until they can economically put a stranglehold on Russia. Do we need Russian Oil/gas more than they need trade with the EU/West?

Yes Mr Goo I agree, hypocritical springs to mind as in my first post

RedWheels

Agree with mr goo

Although Russia probably doesn't see itself as having invaded, seeing as they regard the lot in Kiev as being part of a coup, only what they regard as the legitimate (previous government) would be able to define it as an invasion. Many may evan regard - such as the Crimean semi-autonomous government - russian military involvement as assistance.

Russia will happily sit back in the crimea defending there geo-strategic interests.
They may well apply economic sanctions turning the people against the new leadership, but in the meantime this new government (Svoboda influenced) will probably be pushing through divisive policies that most probably will lead to wide scale ethnic violence, which will, as a result 'require' russian involvement.

Either way the oligarchs will have to divide some of there wealth with the EU because of greater 'economic liberalisation' policies, many of which have been rushed through already. the rich get richer, the poor get poor.

let's just hope the the decent Ukrainian's who were out protesting don't live to regret the day they allied up to the openly fascist, neo-nazi Svoboda party.

ukiboy

I'd say the only openly fascist neo nazis in this situation are the Russians, not the svoboda party.
The Russian dictatorship under Putin didn't like one of their former colonies openly seeking closer European ties so they did what all despots do - use military force and bully boy tactics..

bianchimoon

Britain so outraged "there will be consequences" as long as those consequences don't harm the british economy, looks like Prince Edward not attending the winter paralympics will be enough of a scare for them this time, but be warned Russia, next time!!!

sloppyschleckonds

Panic buying of Chicken Kievs in my local Tesco tonight

bianchimoon

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

Panic buying of Chicken Kievs in my local Tesco tonight

Hurry i've heard there's only mini Kievs and Kiev portions left

nathancom

Crimea river

bianchimoon

nathancom wrote:

Crimea river

very good

secretsam

Wonder what Andrij Shevchenko's view on all of this might be

He's the only Ukranian I really know about...

crumbschief

bianchimoon wrote:

nathancom wrote:

Crimea river

very good

I second that,made me laugh

There has been alot of trouble so far with Uk raine and it seems there is more to come.

ukiboy

Definitely more to come.. Especially once gas, electric and oil prices shoot up and the economy takes a big hit.
This is one crisis that could end up causing considerable grief throughout Europe, including the far western parts such as the UK.

thegreatdivide

The Russian oil billionaires who keep Putin in power have just watched their wealth drop 20% as a reaction to the invasion and if the ruble takes another pounding he'll be under pressure. I think this is going to be the direction of the retaliation.

bianchimoon

thegreatdivide wrote:

The Russian oil billionaires who keep Putin in power have just watched their wealth drop 20% as a reaction to the invasion and if the ruble takes another pounding he'll be under pressure. I think this is going to be the direction of the retaliation.

Yes, now that russia is now 'capitalist' i think this is one conflict where if sanctions are imposed the individual wealth of key people could have more of influence than bullets and bombs. Let's hope so.

team47b

Had an email from a friend who lives in Crimea and is Russian, she paints the picture from an insiders position, sorry about the grammar etc but English is her fourth language...


Hi
We are ok here,thank you. Due to Putin we dint have Nazi's revolution happens here in Crimea. Crimea is russian speaking and culturally and traditionaly tied to Russia. Russion Navy was builded in1783 and since then alwayse stays here....and will stay!

Ucraine is not the same country after bastards nacionalists and radicals took government by force day 22 of Feb after they signed up peacefull agreement the day before.
Millions people who live in Crimea and more 9 regions where Russian is a mother language live like an immigrants on their own land last weeks.Kiev sais what everybody who live in Ukraine must speak ukranian,that's the only nation for ukraine,what Russia and Russians are an enemy number one,what people who fighted Hitler in 1941-1945 is not heroes at all but their parents and grandparents who did serve Nazi ,SS,Is real patriots of Ukraine.

God thanks we have Russian protection here and have our own ,Crimean,parliament by low . Crimea protect itself from possible intervention of pro Nazi government in Kiev.
Everything what happened in Kiev did happen with encouragement from USA and EU. They did and do buy Ukraine.Bastards.
We expect referendum and votions day 30 of March.
Lets see what will happen,for now I work and not starving.Me also preparing for planting herbs and veggies.But all what happens is quite frightering.
Thank you for the letter.
Love you.
Xxxx

PS:I guess what how you see tv news about situation here is shown by one side only. I watch pro ucranian tv and that terrible lie.
The last news ....yestorday american secretary visited Kiev and they agree to new ,not legitime by the way government, to give money to it in exchange of placing atomic weapoons on ucranian land.
Bad dream!!!!!

bianchimoon

Wow - powerful sentiments, in the west we are so encapsulated in our own stability and relatively luxurious lifestyle we really do see other peoples problems in black and white far to often.

nathancom

bianchimoon wrote:

Wow - powerful sentiments, in the west we are so encapsulated in our own stability and relatively luxurious lifestyle we really do see other peoples problems in black and white far to often.

well we are fed with an unending stream of anti Russian propaganda from all parts of the press. It is hardly a surprise that, as individuals, we instinctively think ill of Russia (equally of China and other non Western countries). The propaganda really is incessant and extreme.