Road seat advice to relieve perineal nerve damage

podsquad

Hey,

Bit of a strange subject to post on here, however it is probably the best place with the amount of riders who view this and the extensive knowledge shared.

The story:

For the past 5-6 months I have been becoming very sore from the saddle when riding, the pain is becoming unbareble even after ten minutes in the saddle. If anyone has seen Casino Royale where Daniel Craig gets a beating with a rope, that seems to reflect how this pain feels.

After several visits to the doctors, various tests I still don't have an answer to what the problem is apart from the doctors stating they think it is riding and that it causing the "Perineal Never" to be inflammed, which then leads to the pain. My concern with that theory is, I am not new to riding so surely this should have occurred from day one?

I have since discussed this with a couple of sports rehab companies locally who have had dealings with riders with similar symptoms to mine, the constant pain whilst riding, which then hurts for several days after, with the sensation that you need to wee 100 times a day when really you don't.

I am currently looking getting a new seat as a priority, followed by a bike fit which includes biomechanics and a full body once over to check any other injuries. The reason for this post is to see who anyone else has had similar issues, and how they went about resolving the problem, this could just be a seat recommendation etc.

I would also be interested in finding any bike shops (UK based shops, pref North West) which offer a trial before you buy option on seats, otherwise I may end up with several seats which will be of no use and well cost a fortune.

Hope this makes sense, and I have tried not to delve too far into the details.

Advice and any references would be appreciated.

Pod

andrewjoseph

i've not had the problems you've had, but i'd suggest getting the bike fit done first, then getting a saddle on the advice of the fitter ( if he does advise on this) .

i occassionaly get numbness and tingling but i get out of the saddle for a while and it relieves it.

podsquad

Hey Andrew,

Thanks for the reply, I do try to get out of the saddle as much as possible. But discomfort is just constant, it may not help that I am sore before and then riding just amplifies the pain. I did think a bike fit first would be the best option, but most seem to suggest find a saddle for my build etc and then taking that with me so they can size me up correctly.

Bill_aberdeen

Hi
for two years I had prblems with bike saddles - I hit near screaming point within 1 hour of cycling. I worked my way through dozens of test saddles and nothing fixed it. Then I tried a local physio/osteo who is a keen cyclist - he reckoned my spine was slightly offset - massaged and did some twist/cracks and since then my problems have been almost fixed ( I say almost as I still enjoy the chance to get out of the saddle occassionally).

podsquad

Hey,

Very interesting post, I did have a disc herniation from weight training back in July which could tie into the similar time to this issue occurring. I will investigate this further.

bianchimoon

bontrager do a 30 day no quibble money back after a seat measure at any bike shop that sells them, was quiet impressed with mine

mentalalex

Bike fit cadence sport, via adrian timmis, has a large range of saddles and fizik test saddles which you can test before you buy!

get a bike fit and a saddle @ the same time not separate! would advise doing this big time!

alistaird

Hi,

Not tried one but I would look at one of these:

http://www.rido-cyclesaddles.com/

A

SLN57

I had the frequent peeing problem and some discomfort so I bought one of these:

http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/a8858/ ... wwodnUwAFA

It's a rock hard saddle but very comfortable and has worked perfectly for me. Not sure if there's anywhere you can try one first though.

kajjal

My experience was similar pain but it came on over about an hours cycling rather than ten minutes on my new road bike. Moving the saddles position made no difference. I then looked on the web about how to measure yourself for a saddle. Did the measuring with the wife laughing at me and found my saddle was too narrow. Had a look on the web and found a correct sized saddle which also had a cut out to further relieve pressure. I can now ride for hours with no pain where as before after two hours it would be my limit.

I bought a Specialized Avatar Saddle but there are may others that may suit you better.

6wheels

[/qI bought a Specialized Avatar Saddle but there are may others that may suit you better.uote]

My neighbour, who has just taken up cycling said that he has had no saddle problems at all. This surprised me as I've been cycling for fifty years and I was still having problems. His saddle is also the Avatar!

Anyway, I swopped to a Toupe, and it's the best I've tried, I think 'cut out' saddles are the way to go.

I seem to recall the Female Avatar being the winner in a recent female saddle CP mag test, nearly all more expensive saddles as well!

ai_1

I had some problems with some pain and numbness on longer rides. Nothing as severe as you but it did lead me to investigate other saddle options. I'd highly recommend the ISM Adamo saddles. They're ideal for TT but they do road versions too like the Breakaway, Podium and Attack which work pretty well in all positions. I liked the Breakaway but found it felt slightly wide when I was sitting up on slow rides or in the mountains. However this was a minor niggle and it completely eliminated any pressure whatsoever on the perenial area. If perenial pressure is your problem then these saddles will almost certainly solve it. Whether you like them is another matter. But I'd be confident you'll be able to ride.
The other saddles I tried were the Cobb V-Flow plus and the Specialized Romin EVO Expert. The Cobb saddle takes some cues from the Adamo saddles. It helped significantly with numbness and was fairly comfortable but I preferred the Adamo Breakaway. The Specialized is the most conventional of the 3 being a fairly normal looking saddle with a cutout, a relief channel and a slightly dropped nose. It doesn't fully relieve perenial pressure for me but it's the most comfortable for mixed riding when I spend relatively little time in the drops. It was a close call for me between the Specialised Romin EVO and the Adamo Breakaway. I'm buying a new bike at the moment and I think I'll put an Adamo Attack or breakaway on it. My issues were relatively minor but for you the Breakaway or Attack is probably the best bet.

I only bought the Specialized saddle and could have returned it within 30 days if I wasn't happy. I got the Cobb test saddle from http://www.bike-science.co.uk on their trial saddle scheme (they also do Adamo & Fizik saddles). This just cost me the price of shipping. I got a trial Adamo Breakaway from a local bike shop.

kajjal

6wheels wrote:

[/qI bought a Specialized Avatar Saddle but there are may others that may suit you better.uote]

My neighbour, who has just taken up cycling said that he has had no saddle problems at all. This surprised me as I've been cycling for fifty years and I was still having problems. His saddle is also the Avatar!

Anyway, I swopped to a Toupe, and it's the best I've tried, I think 'cut out' saddles are the way to go.

I seem to recall the Female Avatar being the winner in a recent female saddle CP mag test, nearly all more expensive saddles as well!

If your saddle isn't right it is hard to enjoy longer bike rides

podsquad

Hey guys, thank you ever so much for the response. It's always great to have other riders view and perspectives, especially on things like this which I find are quite hard to find answers on. I had become concerned that there was no solution, and nearly just turned all my riding to XC. But I love the mix of both styles of riding, so hoping what you have all mentioned will help.

Road riding over the past few months did become more of a torture session rather than a buzz with a hunt of torture, so I hoping now there may be a solution. I checked out the sites and seats you all mention, and most of them should do the trick. I will do some more R&D on these, as I do want this seat to be right, I then may have to buy these for my other bikes.

Anyhow, I found a company who do trial before you but on the Adamo seats, they are called trybikestore, I will though check out the other site mentioned "science"' as I would be interested to give the seat a test ride as I have read they do take some getting used to.

As a quick test tonite I swapped my seat over from my turbo training bike to my summer bike, as I was surprised how much my cheaper turbo seat was far comfy, minimal padding, and quite narrow. I also had a play around with angles I soon realised my seat post on my ribble is joke, it's an itm wingtech which in my view appears to be the stupidest design ever. The angle/pitch and distance adjuster are all in one, so if you are too close to the bars and you move the seat back, it will actually pitch the seat upwards. Anyhow, that seat, and post will be coming off tomorrow and my other harder seat, and spare basic straight post will be going on as a temporary fix.

I will keep you updated with my progress, and hope I can help some other riders out as you have all with me. Hoping theAdamo seat arrives by weekend so I can test it out properly.

declan1

Saddles are definitely a very personal thing. I've tried a few - San Marco SPID, Rolls, Fizik Aliante, Arione, and standard saddles on bikes but none were comfortable after 10 miles or so. I tried my dad's Romin Evo (he didn't get on with it at all) and it's like sitting on a sofa for me - the longest I've done on it so far is 85 miles and it was as comfortable at 85 miles as it was when I started.

Basically there's no saddle that's the 'best' one - a £10 cheap saddle from Halfords might be the most comfortable one for you! Hope the Adamo suits you though - it's really annoying finding the right one!

pippi_langsamer-2

If it is just pressure, the Toupe is good. It puts you right on your sit bones rather than your squishy bits and relieves pretty much all pressure in the perineum. Be warned though, they take a good few rides to get used to and your arse will feel like it's been pummelled by a gorilla with a cricket bat!

ai_1

Pippi Langsamer wrote:

If it is just pressure, the Toupe is good. It puts you right on your sit bones rather than your squishy bits and relieves pretty much all pressure in the perineum. Be warned though, they take a good few rides to get used to and your ars* will feel like it's been pummelled by a gorilla with a cricket bat!

I haven't tried a toupe but I think it's like most saddles with modest central cutouts in that it will only relieve all pressure if it happens to suit you. I've had difficulty finding one to suit me with the Romin EVO Expert being the best I've found so far. The Adamo saddles on the other hand WILL relieve all pressure if you sit on the front as designed. The question is whether you find them comfy in other respects.

kieranb

I have a rido saddle on all my 4 bikes, althought they are the original cheap version so I can't speak for the newer ones. I found them very comfortable and have used them for 100+miles, racing, track etc.

podsquad

Hey guys,

Currently testing the ISM Adamo road seat, after one 50 miler and three turbo sessions on it I am pleased to say so fsr so good. It took some fretting to get the position right, not sure I have it perfect yet as I keep having to switch it between two bikes.

One thing that I have noticed is your "seat bones" hurt, it does state in the instructions this will happen until you adjust to the position. Pressure on the perineal nerve seems to be massively reduced. Like I say I seem to be getting the pain In the correct areas, so that's a bonus. I have got this seat for another 10 days so hoping to get another two 50 milers or maybe a linger one depending on time and a few turbo sessions. Once I have a proper feel for the seat I will right up a mini review.

I am tempted to also try the Breakaway seat next, and go from there. I have also gotten hold of a Selle SMP so will give that a whirl in a week or two. Declan I have heard good things about the Fizik Arione, currently trying to find one to test or even buy used to test then sell and buy a new one depending on how I get on. Possibly getting ahead of myself!

Regarding the cheap seats, I have a basic Sella Italia X1 which has next to no padding very flat and thin fsr more comfiest than my other expensive sella seat which will be getting thrown at the wall at some point due to the pain it has caused me! The issue we all have as you stated is there are far too many saddles trying to fit the entire planet, what ever happened to simple.

podsquad

A Gorilla with a cricket bat, haha! Sounds hideous! The Spec toupe has got some great reviews. Too many decisions and not enough saddle time to test. The ISM seats are pretty costly, especially when you can get a carbon chassis on a seat for less. I have been reading up slot about the pros of a carbon framed seat especially the flex element.

pippi_langsamer-2

podsquad wrote:

A Gorilla with a cricket bat, haha! Sounds hideous! The Spec toupe has got some great reviews. Too many decisions and not enough saddle time to test. The ISM seats are pretty costly, especially when you can get a carbon chassis on a seat for less. I have been reading up slot about the pros of a carbon framed seat especially the flex element.

Don't bother with carbon saddles- you'll be wasting your money.

The Toupe flexes enough after a while anyway...

If you do try a Body Geometry saddle eg Toupe, make sure you use the butt measuring tool.

ai_1

Glad you're finding the Adamo helps with the original problem. I also found there was some other discomfort initially but I got used to it after a couple or three weeks. I think you're right to try the Breakaway as well before purchasing. I look forward to hearing how you get on. The Adamos do seem a bit overpriced but if there's one piece of equipment worth getting right it's the saddle. I don't think it's worth worrying about material of construct. Carbon doesn't perform magic. It can be used to keep weight down, at a price, but unless you're worried about a few grams don't bu into the marketing.

podsquad

Hey, it's been a while since my original post simply because I couldn’t login since this new site overhaul. Anyhow, thanks to everyone for your help and feedback.

It turns out that my discomfort was not simply saddle based, but a combination of saddle and a medical issue. The medical issue was been aggravated by my bad saddle choices.

But that still leaves me with seat discomfort on a whole as I am not alone. Over the past several months I have tried several seats and brands. The main issue I did have with picking the perfect seat was they mass of options available from every brand, all contridicting everything you read and even their own product range. It also seemed difficult to find a company who offered demo seats in exchange for a deposit. I did eventually find a couple of stores who offered demo seats on certain models, these guys were also very usefull - HighonBikes and TriBikeStore.

There seems to be a lot of saddle manufacturers which offer a 30 day returns policy, however be wary of these as I have a few contacts who are in the bike industry and they both stated that it is a right nightmare trying to get your money back. If there is one blemish on the seat it makes the return void. It would also appear that you would be granted store credit and then be limited to their stocked brands.

TryBikeStore offer all the ISM saddle range on trial if required for 2 weeks, so I gave several models a whirl. I was most pleased with the Race saddle. Although this was very hard and felt like your seat bones had been chiseled it did work the best.

I ended up going for the prologue, very similar to the breakaway but with a cheaper rail material been used. A few grams here and there for me does not matter, and I felt that extra money could just be put towards some better bibs. If I were to buy another seat I may go for the classic road or the race, both very solid on the seat bones and I felt like I knew where I was on the saddle.

ai_1

Glad you found something that helped.
I recently got a new bike and I'm back in the market for a saddle again. I've been very happy with the Specialized Evo Expert which I've moved over to my new bike but I think I might go with one of the ISM Adamo saddles for bike #2 which I'll use for flatter course duathlons and triathlons where I'll want a more aggressive position. I liked the Breakaway when i tried it, as I mentioned before, but I also want to try the newer Attack and might also consider the Prologue if as you say, it's essentially a cheaper Breakaway.

asjc

I had similar symptoms bought on by an urinary tract infection that antibiotics refused to budge, bit like cystitus with a constant need to pee with a perineal ache when you do.....horrible.
I used to use older turbo/rolls type saddles as I never found them uncomfortable and could spend hours on them with no pain but the eurologist suggested that this type of saddle may induce the problems. I now use a few different saddles including selle italia gel flow(With the great big cut out) to the smaller selle xr type-the smaller cutout is fine and , touch wood, I have not had a repeat of this problem. Interesting re. the spine idea. hope you remain sorted.

kettrinboy

Another vote here for the Spesh Romin Evo Expert saddle, this came as standard on my Venge Expert and having done 4-5 rides at 60-85 milesi liked it so much ive just bought one for my Scott CR1 which had a Selle Italia SLR Gelflow, on that after 30 miles I,d have to relieve pressure god knows how many times but with the Romin I just seem to settle into it and hardly need to move at all on it, just wish I,d tried one sooner.

podsquad

The UTI sounds very similar to what I had, it went on for a year. Ended up having a few tests and they thought it was Prostitis. It seems to have gone away with time and loads of medicines, but whenever you have the urge to wee you worry you have it again!

The attack seat looks good, this was just released when I was testing a few of the models out but it was out of my budget as my plan was to buy a new seat for each of my bikes. I would recommend the race seat over all of the ISMs, I know I have the prologue but I still felt more seated on the Race. The only strange part was hill climbing, and not having much seat there. However I suppose this is something you would just get used to.

The prologue is good though, every now and again I have a niggle but that is probably my riding style and bad choice of bibs on some rides.

I have heard great things about the Romin and I actually nearly bought one, the only reason I didn't was because I trialed the ISM seat and got on well with the models. I am tempted to buy a spec one though for my other bike.

mamba80

whatever saddle you decide on, play around with its angle of tilt, set it horizontal and go a couple of degrees either side, it makes an amazing difference.
Personally, I have found cut out saddles v. uncomfortable, some feel like sitting across 2 pieces of dowelling, the Prologo Scratch in a 134 seems to be about the best I ve tried but you may well be very different.

podsquad

Merlin do Prologo trials so tempted to give one of there saddles a whirl.

foggybike

Merlin Cycles have some seats you can try before you buy, cannot remember which brands.

I had a similar problem over christmas and purchased an SMP Drakon. Solved my problems.

Crashs2k

You have my sympathies as I have had similar issues with perineal pain particularly when peeing post-ride - ewwh...

I've been on the hunt for the holy grail for a while now. Saddles are a very personal thing and what works for one may not work for another. Unfortunately, only thing to do is try and see which work and which don't through trial and error.

I would recommend a bike fit to make sure that the bike is set up correctly and the frame is the right size for you. I had one with The BikeWhisperer which I highly recommend. If the handlebar / saddle drop is too much - you may never find the right saddle that will alleviate your discomfort - regardless of the popularity of 'slammed stems' and huge saddle / bar drops to look pro.

Personally, I'm finding good results with saddles that have a large central cut-out and specifically Selle SMP. Good article that gives an overview:

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bik ... bout-smps/

I've tried a lot of the popular choices and recommendations from t'internet:

Specialized Avatar
Specialized Romin Comp Gel
Specialized Romin Evo Pro
Fizik Aliante Versus
Selle SMP Dynamic
Selle SMP Drakon
Selle SMP Lite 209

I've found the Selle SMPs are very good at taking all of the pressure off the perineum. However, the pressure is supported almost entirely by the ramus (ramii?) bones (see Steve Hogg's article for a more detailed description) which can take some adaptation, finding the SMP saddle with the right level of padding and most importantly seat angle (even 1 degree can make a difference).

I've found the Dynamic (least padding) uncomfortable over an hour but did a 4 hour ride at the weekend with the Drakon (mid-level padding) which was much better. Have got the Lite 209 (which has the most padding) to try now.

I've found with some other saddles that having more padding doesn't necessarily solve the problem and actually makes things worse as you sink into the padding of the saddle saddle and this ironically puts more pressure on the perineum even if it has a cut-out in the middle. This isn't possible with Selle SMPs as there is no saddle there - particularly at the nose of the saddle and why it has such a funny looking beak!

The UK supplier Dillglove has a demo programme to find the right SMP saddle costs deposit (refunded on return of saddle) and postage (£10) - worth giving it a go for a couple of weeks.

Good luck!