Is shortening a stem worse than lengthening it?
Comments
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Still bumming around lol. Can't carry on with it tonight, its all I have been doing for hours. :roll:
This is what I meant about the front mech when on the granny ring position... in fact this isn't fully with it over the middle of the granny ring. The cable doesn't overlap at the moment but thats because I haven't set the mech up to go all the way to where it should on the inside.
It doesn't help when my STi shifters have 5 clicks to go from inner to outer chainring instead of 2 clicks. :roll: I know its a trim control... oh I know... I also know I would rather make do without it. Riding along trying to remember if it already was trimmed or not, then changing up when you meant to trim it, pfffffffffffff. I hate that trim thing.
The sooner I can get on a double the better.0 -
bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:Would I be right in recalling that your triple chainset is actually an mtb one?
No its the original Triban 3 chainset except its got a 28T granny ring, not 30T.
28-39-50bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:Is your triple chainset a Shimano brand?
Yes, it has a JIS square taper.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:Did you have the triple chainset on the Triban?
Oh aye.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:When you bought a new bottom-bracket, did you get the same width spindle as previous?
Shimano square taper (and possibly road-chainsets) mtb chainsets seem generally to require a longer bottom bracket than a double, so this may be an issue. Do you have a spare wider bottom bracket hanging around?
No. I got a 68mm x 115mm axle, the same as I took off the Triban 3.
The inner ring looks as close as it can be. It could go maybe 1mm-3mm more in, but might be scuffing the chainstay if it was.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:The R443 front mech is flat-bar specific, meaning that the flat-bar shifters may move the front mech a different amount to say, a drop bar shifter on Shimano. Also, on some Shimano sti shifters, there seems to specific shifters for double and triple, whether this applies to yours, I don't know.
Yep, but just what exactly is a "R443" lol. Is it a Tiagra (meaning it is a road mech) or is it just a coincidence and its part number is the same as a random Tiagra front mech part number?bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:I have a fairly narrow bottom bracket on my mtb groupset Carrera Subway, but then again, I did stick a non-Shimano chainset on to get a specific fit.
As far as I am aware the major difference is a MTB chainset has the rings 5mm out from a road bike.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:The answer may be that If you have a Shimano flat bar front mech, and a Shimano mtb chainset, then you may just need a wider bottom bracket. Whether the front mech lines up into all three rings using the sti shifter is another matter!
EDIT: meaning that fitting a longer bottom bracket will move your inner chainrings out, and therefor alter the extreme inside position of the front mech, possibly allowing the cable to not rub on the mech.
Yeah I know what you mean now.
*rubs chin and squints at bike*bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:DOUBLE EDIT! If you had the triple chainset fitted on the Triban, were you able to use it with the sti-shifters previously, and across all three chainrings?
Yep. It worked with STi shifters with a Sora (the original setup) then the R443 front mech with flat bars.
I briefly had MTB shifters on with the Sora front mech, but it was stiff (because MTB front mechs have a longer swingarm). Couldn't use a MTB front mech on the Triban 3 because the swingarm would have been hitting the tyre. As for the cable pull, it was the same, but remember I was using really old MTB trigger shifters from 1995. I bet the latest ones don't have the same cable pull, but the old MTB stuff might have still had "road pull" on its front mech, with MTBing still being a relatively new concept back then.
STi was introduced on Dura-Ace in 1990. Guess how long it has taken for STi (downshift on the brake lever) to trickle down from Dura-Ace to the cheapest intro groupset? 23 years!
Twenty three years... it finally arrived on the 2400 "Claris" shifters in 2013. Now that is one hell of a long time for a trickle down effect. I flogged my 2300s on eBay, got about £60 for them and only paid £80 for the Claris. 
So it was like £20 to upgrade to them.
Oh yeah the Stelvio... I might have panicked a bit, maybe it will all work when I get the rear mech cable in and chain on. I can't carry on tonight though, its past midnight now. :P
There's literally just two things to do, put the rear mech cable in and put the chain on. Then the crunching... I mean fun begins.0 -
Entire bike is completed.
There is only one problem with it:
Had to screw the b-tension screw all the way in on the rear mech and it is still "rumbling" in the lowest gear (on a triple) of 28T front and 32T rear. With that screwed all the way in, the end of the screw is more than half hanging over the mech hanger "notch".
Now, I know people in the TdF are adding mountain bike cassettes and therefore rear mechs to their road bikes, so why can't the Stelvio cope with it?
At the moment I cannot use the 32T sprocket.
It even rumbles on the middle ring as well.
As for the way the bike fits, it is absolutely perfect! Sitting normally on it the front hub is obscured etc etc, but more importantly it feels exactly right, I am not reaching or sitting up with hands on the hoods, its just right.
I noticed the top tube slopes a lot more on this Stelvio than my Triban 3 frame.
The only other issue apart from that b-tension screw on the mech hanger is the cable nearly touching the front mech on the granny ring. It is an "extreme setup" but it should just about not eat the wire away.
So I have no clue why that mech hanger blocks off what amounts to about half the length of a b-tension screw but it does. It certainly can't take a 32T sprocket thats for sure. Maybe it even can't take 30T or 28T I don't know.
I wonder if other "alternative" mech hangers are available where the notch is cut about 2mm back from where the notch is currently? I wonder if a cut can be made (not by me lol) on the current hanger to give the effect of having another 6mm of play, as if I had a tension screw 6mm longer and it didn't overlap.
No, you can't just cut another notch because the b-tension screw is already nearly fully off the notch as it is, a new hanger is needed then I guess, if they exist.
Mental note: Never clean a chain with anything water based with the Park Tool chain cleaner. Wanna make your chain go rusty in 2 or 3 days flat? Do that. Next time I am putting parrafin or diesel in the chain cleaner, don't care if it melts it. :twisted: 0 -
Some rear mechs have an upper limit of 28 on short cage, I know SRAM offer a WIFli kit medium cage option for climbing with bigger rear cogs.
Get some pics up when you are all sorted.0 -
Luckily the gears it won't go into (without rumbling) can be had elsewhere, except of course the lowest gear. I mean it rumbles on the middle chainring and 32T sprocket.
Can the length of your chain affect it or is it only about the b-tension screw?
Think, if the chain was say 4 links shorter, wouldn't the mech be pulled more and thus, the jockey wheel moved out a bit?
I worked out I need 109 links and the chain has 110.
Its got a nasty rusty chain on at the moment, don't really wanna ride around on it with that. Its more to see if the bike doesn't fall apart in the first ten minutes and as a basic test.
I have still got the 12-25 Sunrace cassette and a 2300 rear mech I guess I could swap back to, after all both are almost brand new and it would probably allow me to use the 105 link chain I have got... but that means waving goodbye to all the hill climbing I planned to do!. What really is the point riding up a hill on 28F and 25R if I have to stop every 50 feet?! :shock:
I might just swap to the road mech/cassette and stop whining. Its alright I will just have to get off the bike and walk up hills, but I am still going up them.
I will try to do some pics tonight if I can, but all the floors here have only just been done, if I get one drip of oil on the floor... I will get killed. :oops:0 -
"Yep. It worked with STi shifters with a Sora (the original setup) then the R443 front mech with flat bars."
Right, I was actually trying to ask whether you had used the R443 with the sora shifters. You then comment about mtb front mechs, but not specifically the R443. So did you use the R443 previously with the Sora shifters, and did it work then? Reading further down you say it's just about not touching..well, just about is good enough as long as it works 8) , you got it there in the end.
Not quite sure what you're getting at when you talk about rumbling? Unless what you mean is that the pulley wheels are right up close to the sprockets and are interfering with each other and making a lot of noise that way? As Diamonddog says, it could just be that you have the wrong rear mech, though I'd have thought a triple chainset would necessitate a long cage rear mech anyway! On a long cage rear mech, I'd assume that the mech body would angle down slightly more as well, to help provide extra clearance for the larger sprockets. A 32t cassette IS pretty big for a road bike. Pictures?
Not sure about variety of mech hangers, never had to replace one.
I bought a chain bath, used it once, gave it away, too much hassle. Usually I just wipe and oil lightly. If it gets bad then I'll use WD40 on it and then oil it once it's dry.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
You're getting ahead of me here!
If your chain is too short, it'll be pulling the cage down and pulleys forward. It'll do that anyway in some gear combinations, but personally I have the chain as loose as it can go without it hitting the jockey wheels.
If the chains all rusty, are you sure this may not be part of the problem with the rumbling? is it too dry; is it stretched, as already discussed? if it's stretched it won't want to sit square on the rings and that' might just make any other problems worse.
OKAY!!!! NOW I've just read: "I have still got the 12-25 Sunrace cassette and a 2300 rear mech" I very nearly slapped my own forehead when I read this! I'd assumed you were using the original mech! I don't recall reading anything that suggested otherwise! The rear mech, IF that's the one that was originally fitted, is probably going to be your best bet, as this will be probably be a medium or long cage, designed specifically for triple chainsets and larger gear ranges!
What rear mech have you actually been using? If you've been using one that went with the R443, that doesn't necessarily mean that it was mean't for lower gears, there are some 'fast' flat barred road-bikes out there.
Just stick it in and see! Easiest way to find out rather than faffing
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
I'm posting this even though you already posted.
The rear mech on now is an Alivio MTB mech.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:"Yep. It worked with STi shifters with a Sora (the original setup) then the R443 front mech with flat bars."
Right, I was actually trying to ask whether you had used the R443 with the sora shifters.
I never did in the past but I am now. The R443 was only bought (or needed) when I swapped to flat bars and shifters. I got a braze on version of that because they don't make a 34.9mm of it.
I am using the R443 now on the Stelvio because it is a braze on... with Claris 2400 shifters.
The other front mech I have (Sora FD-3403) is definitely a no-no on carbon, can tell that just by looking at it. :P I mean the band mount isn't actually solid, or smooth.
Only a lunatic would tighten that on a carbon tube!bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:You then comment about mtb front mechs, but not specifically the R443. So did you use the R443 previously with the Sora shifters, and did it work then? Reading further down you say it's just about not touching..well, just about is good enough as long as it works 8) , you got it there in the end.
On the Triban 3 the cable came up from the BB shell where it should, it seems not to on the Stelvio. The hole where the cable comes out seems to be over to the drive side too much.
Its also the mech, because the R443 has a pivot on it that gets in the way of the cable and the Sora has no such thing.
What I need really is a Claris triple front mech but they are expensive at the moment, being new. :roll:
Nearly £20 those are! I am sure you can get a really good front mech for £20, the R443 was £20 albeit that was almost at half price.
There is no changing issues at all on the front mech, it was only ever that cable, but it seems to be safe enough now to use it without the mech eating the cable.0 -
I might even be "brave" and slap the 12-23 on it. Cadence perfection is guaranteed.
With the (crap) 2300 rear mech.
There's 4 tiers of cyclist:
TdF level... they have a double with 39T front and 25T rear.
Intermediate... they have a double with 34T front and 25T rear.
Beginner... they have a triple with 30T front and 25T rear.
Me... I have a triple with a 28T front and 32T rear.
I admit I am trying to set the bike up in a way pretty much no one else on earth would, with nearly MTB gearing.
The original gearing gave me 30F/25R which is "1.2" turns of the wheel.
If I have it setup with a 28T inner chainring (already is) and a 12-23T cassette, that comes out to be "1.22" turns of the back wheel. So I might be brave putting a 23T on the back but it is normal really. Having the 28T inner ring is basically what allows the cassette to go from 25T down to 23T.
Interesting though to see if you take 2 teeth off the front and take 2 off the rear, the gearing is slightly higher.
30F/25R = 5 tooth difference = 1.20
28F/23R = 5 tooth difference = 1.220 -
Your mech is aluminium alloy, so if anything, the cable will eat into the mech - so dont worry!0
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You're using an mtb mech, well that should have no problems handling a 32t sprocket, but, we're sort of back to where we were before; did you use that mtb mech, with the 32t cassette, with Sora shifters, on the Triban? Or even just the mtb mech with the 32t cassette and flat bar shifters? I think, just as you've found with the R443, there's a different pull for mtb and road rear mechs so the shift may not line up into the sprockets correctly, this may be where you're getting your rumbling....check your sprocket/gear alignment in each gear. However, I believe that you can get some little widget thingies for the Sora shifters that help.
As you've mixed up a lot of different stuff to get your gearing, a lot of this stuff would be more familiar to a touring or audax cyclist, despite the bike being carbon.
I have to admit, that band does look a bit brutal :? . I'd think twice before sticking that thing on as well. Theres actually no wrong and right as such regarding front mech cable set-ups, there's a fair amount of variety of pulley type, so what's suitable may vary. Some frames, like both my road bike (and probably yours), feature a plastic cable guide with more than one available route for the front mech, and my bottom bracket has a couple of holes so I can move it round to suit. Not all frames may be this versatile.
Regarding what you can and can't afford, there's always EBAY! I understand that you'd rather use what you have than just chuck money at the bike, but you can get lucky and get some nice second hand or old stock stuff knocked right down...ALSO, theres Bikeradars own classifieds section, well worth a look, folks are always dumping stuff on there, or you could stick up a wanted ad.
I'm now going to go and use up the last of my alcyhol supplies, open a bottle of Xmas mulled wine and take some painkillers, and try to do some work on my own bike
. I've built up some new bits'n'pieces while I've been off work and your build is making me itchy. I did a little bit yesterday but had to stop. Taking tyres off a couple of wheels, test pumping some old inner tubes, and fitting spacers to a bottom bracket did me in for the whole day!
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
Don't get hung up on your gearing, even TDF riders will use very low gearing when it suits em. And even triples sometimes apparently, and rear sprockets to suit, even some pros don't like hills
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:did you use that mtb mech, with the 32t cassette, with Sora shifters, on the Triban?
Yes, I had to have the b-tension screwed right in but it did work without that jockey wheel "rumbling".
One huge problem I did have on the Triban 3 was the bolt going through the lower jockey wheel would lightly brush one spoke, so with about 2mm of that bolt sticking through I filed it down and just about got away with it.
On the Triban 3 it "just about" worked. That is the b-tension had to be right in - when in reality the mech can take up to a 34T.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:Or even just the mtb mech with the 32t cassette and flat bar shifters? I think, just as you've found with the R443, there's a different pull for mtb and road rear mechs so the shift may not line up into the sprockets correctly, this may be where you're getting your rumbling....check your sprocket/gear alignment in each gear. However, I believe that you can get some little widget thingies for the Sora shifters that help.
As you've mixed up a lot of different stuff to get your gearing, a lot of this stuff would be more familiar to a touring or audax cyclist, despite the bike being carbon.
I have to admit, that band does look a bit brutal :? . I'd think twice before sticking that thing on as well. Theres actually no wrong and right as such regarding front mech cable set-ups, there's a fair amount of variety of pulley type, so what's suitable may vary. Some frames, like both my road bike (and probably yours), feature a plastic cable guide with more than one available route for the front mech, and my bottom bracket has a couple of holes so I can move it round to suit. Not all frames may be this versatile.
Regarding what you can and can't afford, there's always EBAY! I understand that you'd rather use what you have than just chuck money at the bike, but you can get lucky and get some nice second hand or old stock stuff knocked right down...ALSO, theres Bikeradars own classifieds section, well worth a look, folks are always dumping stuff on there, or you could stick up a wanted ad.
I'm now going to go and use up the last of my alcyhol supplies, open a bottle of Xmas mulled wine and take some painkillers, and try to do some work on my own bike . I've built up some new bits'n'pieces while I've been off work and your build is making me itchy. I did a little bit yesterday but had to stop. Taking tyres off a couple of wheels, test pumping some old inner tubes, and fitting spacers to a bottom bracket did me in for the whole day!
I know for certain on a road mech and cassette this will all work perfectly.
I have had endless setups. :P
Original Triban 3 - 30/39/50 with 12-25T. Drop bars. 2300 STi shifters. Sora FD.
Triban 3 with 30/39/50 with 11-32 MTB cassette and Alivio MTB mech. Still drop bars (2300 STi shifters). Sora FD.
Triban 3 with 30/39/50 with 11-32 MTB cassette and Alivio MTB mech. Flat bars, ancient XTR shifters (that work so amazingly BTW!) and now the R443 front mech was needed.
Triban 3 with 28/39/50 with 11-32 MTB cassette and Alivio MTB mech. Put drop bars back on it. I think I kept the R443 front mech on it and it was fine.
That brings it around to what I am trying to setup on the Stelvio but are going to have to swap to a road rear mech and cassette, but I will leave on the triple with the 28T granny, the R443 front mech and of course the Claris shifters. Can't take those off, they haven't even done 20 miles. 0 -
If your alivio mech was working properly and sitting nicely in the hanger on your Triban, it may very well be the hanger is the problem. It may be worth your while, once you're up and running, to fit the alivio mech and 32t cassette, take the bike to a local bike shop and explain your problem. They may have more than one hanger that fits, with slightly different shapes that may solve it.
A 28/25 is still going to give you a pretty low gear, and you'll probably find the lighter frame and especially lighter wheels will make the the hills a little easier anyway.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
Is a 28F/23R really that "high" of a lowest gear though?
Honestly when it gets past a 1:1 ratio I tend to just not want to pedal it and get off and walk.
I remember 20+ years ago on my dads touring bike it was considered low gearing, before MTB's fully came around. I think the first MTB's did use a touring setup. For example the yellow Rockhopper from around 1990 had the same Biopace 28-38-48 as the touring bike my dad had.
I think that had a 28F/28R on it. My dad always used to say if you need a gear lower than that, you might as well get off and walk. That was on a bike designed to possibly be carrying 50lbs of stuff, or more.
I know having that 12-23 on my MTB last time around was amazing, I just hated how there was no range on it. Swapping from a 11-32 to a 12-23 was like taking away the granny ring and just having a 32/42 double on the MTB.
That was the bike I got over snake pass and back again on, that 32lb MTB with a 22/32/42 and the 12-23 cassette I will now put on the Stelvio. After all it is only 185g.
On that 32lb MTB that gave me 0.95 in the lowest gear and I made it up the 9 mile side lol, well no I stopped once (and considered sleeping there for 20 minutes, I was in that state!). It had slicks on as well lol, City Jets.
Swapping from MTB @ 26" to road @ 700x23c didn't make me go as faster as I anticipated. I remember getting that Triban 3 and going to the foot of Snake Pass, tried to go up but couldn't even pedal up it. That was with 30F/25R.
Honestly I am not even going to get another hanger put on it if I can help it. I will try with the 12-23. It gives approximately the same gearing as the original Triban 3 that itself had a triple.
You've gotta be some sort of elite rider to have 39F and 23R or whatever they use, are they even in that low gear all that much anyway?!0 -
IMO a vast amount of cyclists can get up most hills with a compact double 50/34 and 28 or 30 rear but if triple is the way for you then there is nothing wrong with that, your gearing will only help you so far the rest is down to your fitness.
I have a 52/39 - 12/25 on the turbo bike for a harder workout but a 50/34 - 11/26 on the road bike as I find it better for everyday riding.
Remember more gears = more weight so more to push up hill and as you are finding triples are harder to set up and keep that way, don't even think about the pro's as they gear for whatever stage they are doing and might change it many times during a tour.0 -
diamonddog wrote:50/34 - 11/26 on the road bike as I find it better for everyday riding.
That works out to 1.30 turns of the wheel, it would literally kill me.
The only time cycling is "easy" for me is when I just set off. :roll:0 -
What gears you use is down to cycling fitness and pedaling speed. There's nothing wrong with using lower gears if that's what you need. I've been using 36F/28R, and rarely use the larger front ring. I'm actually in the process of switching to a 34T front inner ring. My large ring is still only a 46T. I'm not fast, and I spin rather than push, so I have no need for larger gears. A top gear of 46F/13R would still get me to nearly 28mph at 100rpm cadence.
I wouldn't worry about what your dad said either! It was common when I were a lad to use 42/52 front, and rear gears jumping up just one cog at a time. But really I was over-gearing myself, and I did make the 'sacrifice' of dropping my outer chainring to just 48, which was plenty big enough for me even then. Many riders do have big chainring combinations and stay on the larger ring a lot, but as a normal efficient cadence is considered to be 85+, then I reckon that often riders are actually pushing rather than spinning.
A smaller cassette ratio will obviously give you a little easier ride in that there's less of a jump between gears, being easier to find your ideal pedaling speed, though with what you've gone through I'd have imagined the 12-25 would be your preferred choice over the 12-23?
A triple is barely any more weight than a double, you're looking at a smidge more for the ring, plus the chainring bolts. Personally I prefer a double for a smaller Q-factor for my skinny snake-hips, though I obviously have the triple on my subway. Take into account that you end up with less gear choices, and the risk of overdoing it on hilly rides, then a triple, if you feel the need for it, could be more efficient over longer rides and actually up your average speed. All depends on the individual.
And manc, I think most Brit cyclists traditionally use inches rather than metric roll-out. Unless you're trying to be all sufistikatid and continental innit
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
"The only time cycling is "easy" for me is when I just set off.!
Manc, if you're one of those riders that sets off at burn-speed, then runs out of steam pretty quickly, you're probably setting off too hard from go! You need to warm up, starting off at a pace that actually feels too easy, just thinking about your spinning and riding quite light on the pedals. Build up to a comfy pace over at least 10-15 mins, you'll find yourself being quicker and getting less tired in the long run.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
I'm always amazed how much better I can climb 45 minutes into a ride - compared with the big hill outside my house!I'm left handed, if that matters.0
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There's rides I have got back from where I have wanted to go back out lol. I mean like 15 miles or whatever and thought 'that just wasn't enough' and I 'was only just getting into it'.
Yes the one time I went over Snake Pass and back, the only time I have done 50 miles at once, I set off too fast that day of all days. Took about 6.5 hours to do it. :evil: Set off at 5:30 PM and got home at 12:30 AM.
I had literally only had my MTB for about 1 month when I did that.
Oh yeah the Stelvio... it has the bike computer on and all setup, the lights on and all setup. Now I am just waiting for it to stop raining. I don't really need to "try" it because I know the reach is way better just sat on it. Maybe tomorrow when its light out and the ground might be dry.
Yes I ended up throwing the 12-23 on it (not the 12-25) just because I can't stand that Sunrace cassette. The 12-23 I have is a PG-870 I think, in your hand it feels like it came out of a Christmas cracker, but the quality is good on it.
If I was still on a 30/39/50 I wouldn't have the 12-23 on it, but having that 28 inner chainring kinda allows a 23 to be similar to a 30F/25R. With a 28F/23R the gearing is ever so slightly higher than 30F/25R.
I know that is nearly identical gearing to the original Triban 3 where I couldn't get up Snake Pass, but that was in 2012 and I have got a lot fitter since then. It is embarrassing riding around on 700c wheels with a 32T sprocket. :oops:
With a 23T it will be the opposite, people will think "Bloody hell he must be good" as long as I go fast enough so they don't see I have a triple up front.
I remember a 11 speed Campagnolo cassette I was looking at (for no real reason) and it had something like:
13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/23
Talk about close ratio. :shock:0 -
100% completed.
With it being a 23T at the back now, I could probably take the b-tension screw right out. :roll:
Couldn't make it rumble no matter how much of it I unscrewed.
That rear mech is awful lol. Might whack an old Dura-Ace on it or something.
Could do with replacing that heavy bottle cage for a carbon one.
In summer I might put some GP4000S on and that carbon saddle, saves 2.75lb lol.
I think if I did that it would be hovering around 17.5lb without lights/bottles.0 -
Looks well Manc33, enjoyed the thread.0
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Here's an issue, but not related to the Stelvio bike frame...
The bolt for the cable on the Shimano 2300 rear mech is too long, it starts going through the other side of the nut (your side), so in effect as you screw the nut in (a 5mm allen key) you get less and less "purchase" on the nut with the allen key. I hacksawed 2 threads off the end and it doesn't come through, it can be tightened onto the cable properly. Although hacksawing it did make it fiddly to screw on.
I tried to use a nut from another mech, but all others I have are MTB and all have a shorter nut. All the bolts are the same. Even the one off a 1995 Deore XT mech was the same bolt as the 2011/2012 Shimano 2300. Same bolt, but the road mech bolt on the 2300 needs to be shorter! By the time the cable is getting tight enough, you're losing any ability to tighten it up, Catch 22.
I initially thought the nut had a more shallow depth, but internally those are all the same too, going back to 1995 and probably before. But the nut height is shorter on a MTB mech and taller on a road mech.
Wow I think the road might actually be drying out...0 -
Just done a quick 5 miler on it, the fit is definitely better than the Triban 3 was. On the hoods I am not over reaching, or cramped. In the drops I can get a lot lower than I could on the Triban 3. The only thing I noticed was it felt like the saddle could go a bit higher, but not much, I mean 5mm or 10mm max.
Pedalling while on the drops is awkward, but always was on every drop bar bike.
It felt so much better having a normal length stem on again as well.
The gearing wasn't all that bad, but I didn't do anything gruelling. Going up a hill on the 28T front I wondered how many more sprockets I had until the lowest gear... 2 more. 8)
Thats all very well but what about Snake Pass. I am just going to have to ride and ride now I think, then getting up Snake Pass on a 23T might be possible.
By that point I would have a 34/50 double on it with a 11-28T cassette I think. This again gives about a 120%-125% turn of the rear wheel in the lowest gear.
Before tonight, I had not been on a bike in nearly 3 weeks! The wind was bad tonight (excuses piled on top of excuses) and yet my average was 13.4 MPH, not bad. It was 14.0 MPH last time out on the Triban 3 but I was more "conditioned" 3 weeks ago and I know the air was relatively still.
Is it true some people have a 39/50 double and some have a 34/50? Why the former?! A 34T is lighter and will bail you out.
You just know I am going to end up throwing a 11-28T on this and the Alivio mech again.
Not sure what sprocket you can get away with on this Stelvio but it ain't 32 and I wouldn't chance a 30 either. In theory its "meant" for a 25T. Like I said though a 11-28T cassette if coupled with a 34/50 double will still give you a lowest gear of 1.2 turns. Doing it on the triple (28F/28R) agh where's my calculator... jk. :twisted:0 -
Guys is it dodgy in any way to buy a new rear mech hanger and just try it?
I will know straight away if the "notch" is in the right place, without having to faff about, much. I can just take the back wheel off and put the hanger up against the one on the frame. That notch needs to be nearly facing vertically down, not at 7 O clock.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/replacement- ... prod17035/
Of maybe I can judge it from the pics and not even buy one.
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Manc33 wrote:I remember a 11 speed Campagnolo cassette I was looking at (for no real reason) and it had something like:
13/14/15/16/17/18/19/20/21/22/23
Talk about close ratio. :shock:
You'd struggle not to have close ratios if you have 11 gears and a difference of 11 between the top and bottom gears! Faster than a tent.......0 -
I found it funny but the first 5 speed cassettes were probably like that. 15/16/17/18/19 or something with two chainrings that are nearly the same size like 48/53.
I am going to try to strike a happy medium and put a 11-28T on this bike with the Alivio rear mech and if that doesn't work I think I will be ringing Planet-X for another hanger to try, or something.
How can they make a road bike that won't take a bigger sprocket than 25T or whatever it is set to take?
Its aggravating because the "notch" on the hanger is cut at about 8 O clock and looks like it should have been cut at 7 O clock (like the Triban 3 frame where an 11-32 works). With the notch cut deeper at the 7 O clock position, it means the mech can come forwards more.
Having a notch cut more towards the back is stopping the rear mech from coming forward and opening out properly at the biggest sprocket.
I estimate that to make that work on this Stelvio I would need a b-tension screw at least double the length one is and anyway, it is on the verge of overlapping the hanger notch at the current length, so thats impossible.
I even think it "rumbled" on the middle ring and 32T and the inner ring on the next sprocket down, 26T.
That sounds pretty bad to me, that on 22F/26R it rumbles. It means the hanger only realistically allows up to a 25T cassette. I have never heard of that on a bike, I mean I have never heard of a bike not being able to take over a 25T cassette, the first thing you'd ask is why would they make it not work. :roll:0 -
I am putting the 11-32 back on with a chain 4 links too short (for a 32T).
Since it "rumbles" with the b-tension screw right in, I will try to screw in the derailleur limiting screw to "cancel out" the 8th (1st?) sprocket, the 32T.
Then I have a 26T lowest gear (2nd sprocket on a 11-32T). The chain is still going to be 2 links too short on a 50F/26R setup, I will just have to remember not to go big to big. I wanna see if doing this brings the mech and more forward.
In the meantime I will order a 11-28T and if that rumbles with the b-tension screw right in, I am going to ask Planet-X why.
I can accept a road frame/hanger not being able to take a 32T but not a 28T. All they had to do was cut that notch in a different place. It appears to be limited to 25T.
Thats why I want to see what happens on this with the 2nd sprocket being a 26T, I am doubtful about whether it can even take that.
Lets get ready to rumble...0 -
With a 110 link chain it rumbled (aka upper jockey wheel getting too close to biggest sprocket in the lowest gear).
Now with 104 links on I got rid of the rumbling, even managed to back off the b-tension ever so slightly (literally one turn but at least thats something) but now the chain is extremely stretched in the 39F/32R gear. In that gear I "should" be on the 28T inner chainring anyway.
It can be run like this I guess, without wearing out components, but only if every time I ride it I remember to:
1. Never use the 4 biggest sprockets on the biggest chainring.
2. Never use the biggest sprocket on the middle chainring. Man thats gonna be a hard one to remember.
The rear mech is like 97% stretched even on 39F/32R. Thats because the mech hanger notch is cut too far back, in other words theres too much of the notch there, some needs filing off or something. With it as it is now, it makes the rear mech go further back than it should be, which is why it gets so stretched on the bigger sprockets.
Well you can have that gear (or lower) of 39F/32R on the inner chainring with 28F/26R. Thats not the issue, the issue is remembering not to use any of the bigger sprockets unless on the granny ring. :roll:0
