Is shortening a stem worse than lengthening it?
Comments
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bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:Wow, that's tight on the back wheel! Also, I may just be looking at it wrong, but that rear brake hole looks well off-centre!
It does in the pic but I had to have the camera at a crazy angle to take the pic. Lens was almost touching stuff.
Look at the grey paintwork on the right in that pic, see how its only on the right, well looking straight on its a symmetrical pattern, you can't see any grey on the left and it is at a silly angle, is all. I agree it looks like the hole is over to the left. :shock:
bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:You're going to cut the steerer??? Wouldn't it be better if you waited till it was built up, then you could judge better how much to take off! Remember your head-set is shorter than on the Triban, and you've not got the head-set fitted either! Take too much off and...well, I don't need to tell you!
Oh yeah I know, I might have worded it badly but I ain't touching it with a hacksaw until headset, spacers, bung, stem are all in.bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:EDIT: just caught the last bit of your post, saying you were going to wait till you got the headset....whew..
Touche.
If the rear tyre does catch I will be forced onto GP4000S @ 23c and (probably) getting punctures again. On a positive note, swapping to those would shave about 800g off where it matters most. Was in half a mind to just get them anyway and have a zero tolerance policy of ONE puncture and thats it, I would go back to the M+ and never think to swap again. Or just have them as winter tyres since fixing a puncture in summer just isn't that big of a deal.0 -
That looks much better 8)
Tyres actually vary in width, despite what the label sez. Those tyres you have on there may be on the big side as they're obviously for comfort and toughness rather than outright performance. Other tyres may be slightly skinnier than claimed so they can save weight and look good next to competitors.
Either way, you can get reasonably light tyres now that also have decent puncture protection, at a price, and having them pumped up to the right pressure for your weight helps too. Even if you do have to go skinny on the tyres, hopefully the frame will iron out some of those bumps.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
Those Marathon pluses are very fat - the tread is pretty thick because of the protective strip.
They're not the right tyres for they bike either. I have them on my winter bike - which is a cross bike so has a lot more space. I have Michelin 25s on my summer bike but they have more space than those. You just want a better tyre - will make a tremendous difference to the ride too.I'm left handed, if that matters.0 -
2x Marathon Plus and Brooks saddle = 1750g
2x GP4000S and carbon saddle = 490g
Just a tiny difference. 1260g or 2.75lb. 0 -
Manc33 enjoying this build thread keep it going.
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Primus84 wrote:Manc33 wrote:2x Marathon Plus and Brooks saddle = 1750g
2x GP4000S and carbon saddle = 490g
Just a tiny difference. 1260g or 2.75lb.
Maybe, but that carbon saddle you posted pictures of looks like an instrument of torture!
It is but I might give it a chance again sometime. I have to admit after being on a Brooks for months, when on that carbon saddle I was kinda standing up all the time and sliding forwards and back trying to get comfy and never could.
What about years ago, those BMX bikes with plastic seats? Those ones with lines going across the saddle. Well I rode around on one of those as a kid every single day. So you can and do get used to it.
Can't do anything today or tomorrow, waiting for three parts to arrive, probably tomorrow. New bottom bracket, the integrated 46mm headset, those "cable housing adjuster screw" things.
One worry I have is the BB plastic cups screwed in and out of my Triban 3 pretty easily, the same cups were tight in the Stelvio and, both ended up with a stripped thread. I assume a Shimano UN55 will have steel cups? I am so worried if it strips again with those it won't be the cups that need replacing it will be the frame. :x
I guess just screw one in finger tight and stop if it gets any tighter, but with those plastic cups I was trying to do that for hours and never did. I had them in and out so many times I just assumed it must be right and it was a tight "spot" but nope, it was cross threaded and stripping it.
Those plastic cups can look perfectly straight when going in and then go wonky half way through.
What is that "30Nm" about on the cups as well? The non-drive side cup can in theory screw right into the bottom bracket, it has no lip on it. If you had a tool with long splines (that could somehow magically be strong enough) I am sure that plastic cup could be screwed like 15mm into the BB shell. How can you have 30Nm on something that doesn't ever stop screwing in! It would only stop when the inside of the non-drive side cup touches the inside of the drive side cup inside the BB shell wouldn't it? Except no tool could screw it in that far.0 -
The left side cup on a bottom bracket allows more adjustment for different bottom bracket widths which may vary slightly though these days would usually be nominally 68mm.
The right hand cup can be pretty firmly screwed in, but I find it best not to do the left hand adjustable cup up as tight, as this will put pressure onto the bearings and reduce free play of the bearings. The left hand side will come to a stop when it butts up against the left hand side bearings. You should tighten it up slowly, turning the bottom bracket spindle to check it's still moving freely; when it starts to resist, back off the tightness just a bit till the spindle frees up again; it may take a little tweaking back and forth to get it just so. If you're worried about the bottom bracket cup coming loose then you could use a weak thread-lock instead of grease if you wanted. Even if it did, you often get plenty of warning from a little clicking sound from the bottom bracket ages before it becomes an issue. It happened to me once, and it took a fair bit of googling before I found the problem, I thought it was worn bearings in my pedal at first :roll: .
When you're putting the drive side cup in, along with the axle and body, you'll find it easier to hit the threads squarely if you hold onto the opposite end of the axle. Sometimes also, the left hand cup doesn't want to go right in and the cup hits the side of the left bearings cartridge instead of sliding straight over it. if that happens, just screw in the right hand side a little way, and do the same with the left, then carry on with the right, and, as you tighten it up, wiggle the left end of the axle so that it centres into the left cup, then carry on as normal.
Saddles are personal manc, though patience and lots of tweaking can get a saddle you might initially not like, to actually feel okay. I like Brooks saddles too, but I just don't think they really suit modern bikes, though as some say, who cares, and once you're sitting on it, who can see anyway!
I quite liked the saddle on my Carrera Subway, which was also the same they used on a lot of Boardman bikes, so I got me one off Ebay. The problem is, now I've had to change my bike position, those saddles feel less comfy. I've just bought a couple of slightly wider saddles, one for the mtb, and one for the roadbike. I chose the Charge Scoop as the shape and measurements remind me of a worn-in Brooks B17 (and they have a lot of built in flex). And I got another cheap saddle, with a cut-out (Selle Italia Q Bik Flow), both new saddles being a smidge wider than the ones I'm replacing. I'll be testing them both once my back lets me get back on the bike.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
OK cheers bigflangesmallsprocket .
I was messing with the front mech before to see how the cable is setup and the mech seems out, like the inner limiter needs screwing in. Not sure if or why that would vary with another frame. Hope it can take a triple. :shock:
The mech seemed too close to the frame, not touching but close. Also the cable pull was way off, the swingarm would need to be pulled quite some to make an angle for the cable to pull it. A bit worried about this. :oops: Without the chainrings on, its impossible to tell anything yet. Its just where that dent is for the front mech is where I put the mech so I know the band was roughly in the right place.
It almost seems as though its a double only frame if such a thing exists. I got the same width axle of BB as the one I had in the Triban 3. Will that matter? How is the chainline sorted out?0 -
You can't tell anything about FD adjustment until the chainset is on - and finally with the chain fitted.
You willhave to adjust the limit screws but if you got the same bb length as before it will be fine - the difference in seat tube shape is enough to put the adjustment way off.
Not something to worry about until you've got all the bits.I'm left handed, if that matters.0 -
OK cheers. I grabbed a carbon band mount, not even going to risk metal.
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/rati ... -prod612870 -
Guys, on my Triban 3 (alloy) steerer, it had a clamp just above the top half of the headset...
NOT MY BIKE/PIC
Does that clamp have to go on the next setup?
With it being a carbon steerer and in a place where there's nothing inside the steerer (nearer the top will have the Deda bung inside it) should I even put a clamp like that on it?
Someone said it is only there to make swapping stems possible without affecting the headset and can just be replaced with a spacer.
Not sure how that pic above has 4 spacers because I only have three. :oops:
Here's the way I was going to set it up...
Top of Headset - spacer - spacer - stem - spacer - top cap - bolt.
Or if that clamp is needed (with only 3 spacers it might be)...
Top of Headset - clamp - spacer - spacer - stem - spacer - top cap - bolt.
Whats the deal with having a spacer on top of the stem on a carbon steerer? Its risky to have the stem right on the end of the steerer isn't it? Trek say you must have a 5mm spacer on top. Thing is without a spacer why isn't it safe if the expander bung is there? That itself measures 46mm long. The part of the stem that attaches is 39mm.
So in theory you will just about cover it if you have the 46mm Deda bung in and on the outside have the 39mm stem and a 5mm spacer on top of the stem. This means the stem and spacer take up 44mm, then say 2mm for the top cap and its about equal. Except the stem/top spacer sticks up say 3mm so you're not fully covered but almost.
Maybe they purposely made the bung with that in mind. In theory you're (only slightly?) protected because the stem isn't going to be crushing an empty carbon tube.
Everything should arrive tomorrow to get started, but the "carbon front mech band mount" won't get here until the day after. Still, I can probably get the bike 95% built up tomorrow. Then I will be waiting a day for a carbon band mount.
Already put tiny little scuffs on the seat tube just experimenting lightly tightening a metal band onto it. Not even worth doing it with a metal band lol. £15 for a carbon band mount is a no brainer to me.
I wouldn't have the steerer carbon but it came that way so will have to "chance" it. 0 -
My steerer set up is 3x spacers, stem, small spacer and top cap.
The second clamp on the bottom of the Triban is not required IMO, Trek say 40mm max below stem ie 4x 10mm spacers.0 -
So on a carbon steerer the aim is to not have much steerer sticking out and to try to get the stem in the middle of what is sticking out? You can alleviate some of it with stems that have a bigger than normal rise I guess.
I'm not buying any more spacers etc, I will just set it up with what I have, but the "missing" clamp is quite thick.
So the steerer is 40mm maximum below the stem, 5mm minimum above the stem, with the 40mm max being more important than the 5mm min.
In laymans terms don't setup the stem so it could snap the steerer. :oops:0 -
I can't comment on max spacer height with carbon steerers, but you do have the choice of flipping the stem upside down, or getting one with different angles.
You say you're not going to spend more on spacers than you already have..but, I would actually ensure you can bring your steerer height up to that 40mm max to start off with, just to make sure, spacers aren't exactly expensive if you do need them. As you say you've back problems, it's nice to have that little extra height to spare while you finesse your riding position.
You can buy single longer tapered spacers to make it look a bit neater, though they cost a bit more, it all depends on what you want.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
A +/-17 degree stem would bring the bars up if you needed it, wouldn't look very nice but if it does the job that's the main thing.
Have a look at the link below to see how it works just put in the relevant sizes.
http://alex.phred.org/stemchart/Default.aspx0 -
Interesting link. I think he'll get a little extra height anyway from now being able to use the longer stems. He does have a lot of height on that Triban though, considering the frames too big for him, I think the shorter head-tube may be a bit of a shock
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0 -
Has anyone had any post delivered today? Have the posties all been wagging it?
Shame, I could have got cracking building my bike up.
Apparently today is the #1 day of the year for people being off work sick. :roll:0 -
Manc33 wrote:Primus84 wrote:Manc33 wrote:2x Marathon Plus and Brooks saddle = 1750g
2x GP4000S and carbon saddle = 490g
Just a tiny difference. 1260g or 2.75lb.
Maybe, but that carbon saddle you posted pictures of looks like an instrument of torture!
It is but I might give it a chance again sometime. I have to admit after being on a Brooks for months, when on that carbon saddle I was kinda standing up all the time and sliding forwards and back trying to get comfy and never could.
What about years ago, those BMX bikes with plastic seats? Those ones with lines going across the saddle. Well I rode around on one of those as a kid every single day. So you can and do get used to it.
I'd be willing to bet on your BMX you weren't riding anything like the distance you will on a road bike.0 -
Thats true but I am sure I rode to Buxton and back once as a kid on a BMX. 37 miles. :P
Come to think of it I think that was probably my 15 gear MTB. :oops: But I was only 14 or 15.0 -
Headset arrived.
The bearings look identical.
No instructions included.
EDIT: Full ring on the fork and split ring on the top bearing.
Now I just need a tube exactly that width...0 -
What do you reckon guys, spacer setup OK?
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What size are the bottom spacers 2x 5mm? I think it will be very low at the front if you have back issues.0
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All the spacers are 5mm.
I can get it to the proverbial "40mm max" like this.
Headset top = 15mm
Spacer x 5 = 25mm
= 40mm
That is right on the 40mm limit but would give maximum adjustability afterwards.
Does Trek say you must have a 5mm spacer on top of the stem? Or do they say the maximum spacer you can have above the stem is 5mm, as if to say ideally, don't have one there at all? Lastly why is anyone putting any spacers above any stem? To give more adjustability?
Getting close to cutting time. :oops:0 -
Maximum 40 mm below the stem, then stem and 5mm top spacer.
Look on here for Trek info, Specialized also state the same IIRC.
http://www.trekbikes.com/pdf/carbon_car ... r_Info.pdf
First part about headset configuration is the relevant bit.0 -
I'd be going for carbon spacers with that headset.0
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I will just cut it where I was going to and have 4 spacers below (35mm below in total) and 1 on top (5mm above).
Specialized explain it like this:
So really they are saying let the expander bung take the strain.
It will, my Deda one is 45mm, so it covers the 40mm stem and a 5mm spacer on top. That ignores the 3mm gap for compression so it is if anything, even more covered.
If I swap to that short stem (its 45mm in height) I will have to take out a 5mm spacer. Both my other 2 stems are 40mm high.0 -
Manc33 wrote:I will just cut it where I was going to and have 4 spacers below (35mm below in total) and 1 on top (5mm above)
4 spacers x 5mm (below the stem) is not 35mm it's 20mm.
Don't rush into cutting the stem before you are sure everything is as you want it.0 -
diamonddog wrote:Manc33 wrote:I will just cut it where I was going to and have 4 spacers below (35mm below in total) and 1 on top (5mm above)
4 spacers x 5mm (below the stem) is not 35mm it's 20mm.
Don't rush into cutting the stem before you are sure everything is as you want it.
No I mean 4 spacers + the 15mm FSA curved spacer. :P
It blunted 2 hacksaw blades before I got all the way through the tube.
Now I am going to drop the 3 inch of waste tube out of my bathroom window to see if it breaks.
Or tighten the stem on it ludicrously tight and see what force it takes to crack it. I would love to know. Not got a torque wrench though. :oops:
Gotta say this is a good headset because I hardly have to tighten the top bolt and it is free of play, so I just did it like that then gave it another 1/4 turn, the fork still moves freely.
Phew, that is the nerve wracking part out of the way. In the end the steerer tube was cut pretty much spot on. If anything it could possibly do with 1mm more off it but it is fine, the top of the steerer isn't interfering with the top cap. Looks about 3mm.
I want to do pics but the battery has ran out. :roll: Will take some of the headset setup later on tonight.
If anyone wants to know how I cut it...
- 2 jubilee clips
- Three "32 TPI" hacksaw blades
- Sandpaper (to carefully smooth it on top but sanding upwards only)
- That weird sandpaper (400) to get it super smooth
The cut is really straight. The only difficult part is rotating the jubilee clips around which you have to do half way through.
It was like cutting a tube made out of dense clay. God this stuff is weird. Yes I did it in a well ventilated area, carbon dust is a carcinogen (says a guy that smoked heavily for 20 years).
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Would that tapered top-cap also count as a spacer? Really, you do need to keep max allowed height at first, just for safeties sake. If you cut it low, find you can't reach and have to flip the stem to make it fit....you'll be sorrrrryyyyyyyy
No, Specialized are not saying the cap takes the strain. It's simple but clever, the top-cap allows micro adjustment of the headset...you just tighten it up enough to give correct play for the headset bearings, so the fork doesn't waggle from being loose, or the bearings grind from being too tight. It's the stem clamp that takes the strain.
Jam butties, officially endorsed by the Diddymen Olympic Squad0
