Condor Acciaio or Super Acciaio?

rfreese888

Hello All,

This is my first post on Bike-dar. I get my bonus next Friday and and looking to buy my first proper road bike. I currently ride a Fuji hybrid into work and have started going on Saturday club rides. After about 4 months of obsessive research and test rides - I have narrowed down the choice to Condor Acciaio or Super Acciaio.

My actual usage will include:
- daily round trip commutes of 28-40 km in good weather (hybrid used in messy weather)
- club rides on Saturdays of between 60-100 km
- a few 100-200 km charity event rides in the spring / summer

The Super Acciaio is more aggressive and exhilarating but may be a bit uncomfortable on longer rides / day-in-day-out. It handles like it's on rails and is more nimble. I said 'now that's a proper bike' when i walked back in from the test ride at the Condor shop.

The Acciaio is more relaxed geometry and will suit longer rides and cruising in style. It's a bit cheaper than the the SA, but I am putting stiffer forks and custom paint on this design so not too different in price. It will have a retro look with 'acciaio green' paint (similar to Bianchi Celeste), silver Athena group-set and silver stem, post, hb's. It feels like a sturdy, elegant all rounder with a fair amount of room to grow and expand from.

Seb the legend at Condor sez the team there advise to go with the Acciaio if I am going to do little or no sprinting - which will probably be the case - although you never know if the club rides and events might not get a bit scrappy, as well as the occasional race into work with another commuter.

Long term I plan to get a lighter carbon frame as well - and have my eye on the Condor Barrachi which is a magic carpet of a bike. It feels like a dream that goes fast, and is comfortable, but would not suit the daily grind like the steel frames. This would be the go to bike for club rides in the Wicklow mountains and centuries etc.

I have over analysed this to death so would welcome some objective feedback from anyone willing to provide it.

Many thanks,

Robert in Dublin

bendertherobot

mroli

Yeah - its the Acciaio really for you rather than the Super Acciaio I think. Its a lovely "all round" bike - the Super Acciaio was originally designed to be a crit bike and to be raced. I have ridden both and like you would want both, but if you are thinking about a carbon "race bike" at a later stage, I just think the Acciaio would suit you better. Also the custom paint jobs can be lovely and make the bike truly individual. You'll be able to "sprint" fine on an Acciaio in any event!

racingcondor

I'm going to go against the grain and say Super. It's a wonderful frame and while yes, it's a race machine it gives a smooth ride and the geometry isn't too racey (head tube isn't Cannondale short for instance).

Nothing stopping you getting a lovely steel steed and then following it up with a carbon bike later and you already know you love the ride...

rfreese888

Thanks all for the thoughtful responses. The question it seems is what combo of steel/carbon and racer/sportive frames do I want to end up with. If money was not an issue I would probably get the Super Acciaio and Barrachi as those two frames gave me the biggest thrill of all the bikes I tested (Condor, Bianchi, Trek, Specialized).

So I would look to get the SA done in 'acciaio green' with silver components as mentioned in my original post. Here is the idea on a Bianchi frame:


I am kind of attached to this look because I have spent months on the design with first a Fratello and then Acciaio frames. Also the guy doing the build for me has a set of hand built wheels with silver Campag Record hubs on Mavic Open Pro rims that are MUST HAVE in this bike

Actual build would be:
Frame - Super Acciaio in custom acciaio green with detail similar to Condor Stainless Acciaio
Wheels - Campy Record hubs (silver) on Mavic Open Pro rims with Sapim racing spokes (silver)
Tyres - Continental GP 4 Seasons
Gruppo - Athena 11s compact silver alloy
Pedals - Look Keo Max 2 white
Stem - Ritchey classic silver
Handlebars - Ritchey classic silver
Seatpost - Nitto S83 silver
Saddle - Fizik Arione white
Tape / Cables - white

So is the SA built out like a classic really cool or really naff?

tp2000

I've ridden both the Acciaio and the Super Acciaio.....and would go with the SA.

This is especially the case given the the new (2014) version of it (I've been lucky enough to ride the old - Dedacciai - version and this year's Columbus version).

A different tubing and new fork design means the new version gives you a lighter weight, but is actually a more comfortable/compliant ride than the previous SA without losing any of the speed. It really has made it a great combination of a fast "racing" bike and something you'd can confortably spend 5-6 hours on without needing to be unfolded.

The Acciaio is a cracking bike and the longer chainstays and slightly higher front end gives it great all day comfort, however I've never ridden a bike that leaves me grinning as much as the Super Acciaio does.

rfreese888

the grin factor is not to be discounted!

mattythemod

I collect my Super Acciaio next week so will let you know my thoughts when its built up ...the flared headtube 1/8 to 1.5 and tubing shapes and design are pretty modern for steel and that was what cliched it for me . i too went with a custom paint job and its taken only 5 weeks against there quoted 10 weeks .

I too was worried at first when i read it was race frame but upon measuring the headtube etc against my old Specialized could see it should be a much better fit for me .

Simmo72

having finally filled the piggy bank, I'm also seriously thinking about getting an Acciaio. The geometry suits me, with the 64 cm giving a 25cm head tube, it means I have a bike with no up turned stem, or wedge of spacers its possibly ideal as the rest of the design also fits me well (194 cm tall and aging, can't do the 18-20cm headtubes anymore).

I'm hesitant though
I don't know the tubing, the last steel frame I had (and still have) is 1990 using Columbus SL, how does the Acciaio compare weight, stiffness, ride wise?

this would be my best, summer bike. Do I really want it to be steel? I'm toying with a more expensive Ti frame as I do have an older specialized roubaix so not leaving carbon entirely but its a lot for than a £800 Acciaio Am I really going to notice the difference on a typical 50 mile ride?

TORN!

rfreese888

mattythemod wrote:

I collect my Super Acciaio next week so will let you know my thoughts when its built up ...the flared headtube 1/8 to 1.5 and tubing shapes and design are pretty modern for steel and that was what cliched it for me . i too went with a custom paint job and its taken only 5 weeks against there quoted 10 weeks .

I too was worried at first when i read it was race frame but upon measuring the headtube etc against my old Specialized could see it should be a much better fit for me .

Hi Matty,

Can you tell me a bit about how the custom colour process works? I am not 100% clear on what the custom 2014 SA paint pattern and decals will look like. I reckon I want primarily Acciaio Green with white accents (like the Acciaio Stainless pictures on Condor's website), but with the Super Acciaio paint pattern and decals. I am hoping this will include painting the fork as I don't want a black fork.

Did you talk it through with Condor in the shop or over the phone when you were ordering?

Can't wait to see your bike!

Robert

on-yer-bike

The SA looks like a carbon bike unlike that Bianchi you posted with the saddle too high. So I wouldnt put silver hardware on it, I would put light carbon hardware on it to make up for the extra weight. I ride with 4 owners of SAs including the designer and they all love them. I think I would go for a more classic steel frame if I was going to have a carbon bike as well.

mattythemod

rfreese888 wrote:

mattythemod wrote:

I collect my Super Acciaio next week so will let you know my thoughts when its built up ...the flared headtube 1/8 to 1.5 and tubing shapes and design are pretty modern for steel and that was what cliched it for me . i too went with a custom paint job and its taken only 5 weeks against there quoted 10 weeks .

I too was worried at first when i read it was race frame but upon measuring the headtube etc against my old Specialized could see it should be a much better fit for me .

Hi Matty,

Can you tell me a bit about how the custom colour process works? I am not 100% clear on what the custom 2014 SA paint pattern and decals will look like. I reckon I want primarily Acciaio Green with white accents (like the Acciaio Stainless pictures on Condor's website), but with the Super Acciaio paint pattern and decals. I am hoping this will include painting the fork as I don't want a black fork.

Did you talk it through with Condor in the shop or over the phone when you were ordering?

Can't wait to see your bike!

Robert

Robert

I visted the Condor Store in London to get fitted on there jig and to talk through all the options with Matt Holland one of there sales advisers there was no pressure and me and my riding buddy were there for a good 90 misn looking at frames and chatting about paint and bikes in diffrent , they have actual colour tubes instore of all the options and theres a couple of choices when it comes to headtube badge and decals although i was told anything was possbile if you wanted to pay for it ....2 days after my visit i got a mock up of what the colour would look like via e mail from there designer Ben and had to approve it.

The surcharge for custom paint is £100 for the frame and another £50 if you want the forks painted .

I was told up to 10 weeks but was surprised to be told it was ready after 6 weeks !

rfreese888

mattythemod wrote:

rfreese888 wrote:

mattythemod wrote:

I collect my Super Acciaio next week so will let you know my thoughts when its built up ...the flared headtube 1/8 to 1.5 and tubing shapes and design are pretty modern for steel and that was what cliched it for me . i too went with a custom paint job and its taken only 5 weeks against there quoted 10 weeks .

I too was worried at first when i read it was race frame but upon measuring the headtube etc against my old Specialized could see it should be a much better fit for me .

Hi Matty,

Can you tell me a bit about how the custom colour process works? I am not 100% clear on what the custom 2014 SA paint pattern and decals will look like. I reckon I want primarily Acciaio Green with white accents (like the Acciaio Stainless pictures on Condor's website), but with the Super Acciaio paint pattern and decals. I am hoping this will include painting the fork as I don't want a black fork.

Did you talk it through with Condor in the shop or over the phone when you were ordering?

Can't wait to see your bike!

Robert

Robert

I visted the Condor Store in London to get fitted on there jig and to talk through all the options with Matt Holland one of there sales advisers there was no pressure and me and my riding buddy were there for a good 90 misn looking at frames and chatting about paint and bikes in diffrent , they have actual colour tubes instore of all the options and theres a couple of choices when it comes to headtube badge and decals although i was told anything was possbile if you wanted to pay for it ....2 days after my visit i got a mock up of what the colour would look like via e mail from there designer Ben and had to approve it.

The surcharge for custom paint is £100 for the frame and another £50 if you want the forks painted .

I was told up to 10 weeks but was surprised to be told it was ready after 6 weeks !

Thanks for the reply Matty,

I have met Matt in the shop a few times and he is also fantastic - very helpful setting up bikes for me to test ride and answering all of my questions. I will factor in the fork £50 into my build. Sounds like the mock up email / sign off is a good fool proof way to make sure I will get what I want.

Cheers,

Robert

Focus-rider

If it helps at all you can have a look at my build mid way through. Fully pictures on the "your road bikes " section. Nearly finished it, just a few parts left to sort.
I currently ride a focus izalco pro 2 and I think this is going to blow the focus apart and yes this is going to be my summer best bike.

infopete

Are Super Acciaio made in the UK/London?

Focus-rider

No they are handmade in Italy, I think they are painted in uk though.

infopete

That's a lot of money for a bit of factory made gas piping then?

mroli

You are paying for a European factory. For handmade frames in Italy, from a name steel provider. They are designed in the UK and some of the frames are raced in the UK and abroad by a pro team sponsored by Condor. I think that they are also painted in Italy and then they are put together in London. They are specced to the customer's demands and a bike fit and first service is included - and this is all in central London by a bike shop that has been going since 1948 and is a family business

I'm a Condor fan - you can get cheaper bikes - sure, absolutely. Are Condors factory made gas piping - no, not at all.

http://www.condorcycles.com/feature-stories/made-by-hand.html

infopete

I'm a great fan of Condor too, I've spent many a happy pound or two in their shop.

I just think there must be some UK frame builders worth visiting.

on-yer-bike

infopete wrote:

That's a lot of money for a bit of factory made gas piping then?

Not when you think a Pegoretti frame is around £2400 as are quite a few other handmade steel frames, if not more. How much did you pay for a lump of carbon reinforced plastic made in a mold in China?

infopete

I paid not a lot for my Ribble 365 which I think is an excellent bike btw.

I paid very little for each of my 531c bikes when I was much younger. I can't remember how many I had but it's at least 5.

I paid £120 for my second hand Ilkeston built Raleigh 753 and about £500 to have another 753 hand made by Caygills in Richmond.

And .... about £600 for my Omega Axis touring frame.

Oh and a couple of thousand dollars for my Merlin Cielo.

If I was in the market for something steel then I would prefer to have something a bit more unique and made in the UK, something like this:

http://www.feathercycles.com/?portfolio ... -road-bike

Simmo72

So is a tall rider. 95kg -hopefully 90kg by march!- going to notice much difference from riding an Acciaio compared to a carbon frame? Most of the total weight is on my body so is going from a frame that weighs 1200grams to something that weighs 1800grams really going to make a difference?

So, so close to ordering an acciaio but I think I'm being blinkered by thinking I'll be riding a farm gate.

Feel a trip to condor coming up

Focus-rider

That's what I thought to until I felt the weight of the sa frame. It's very very light

lakesluddite

Focus-rider wrote:

That's what I thought to until I felt the weight of the sa frame. It's very very light

I know that weight is probably secondary to other factors, but according to the Condor website, the SA weighs 1800g for a 52cm, and the Acciaio is 1800g for a 55cm - so all things being equal, the SA is heavier?

Or am I mistaken? Sorry, I'm paying particular attention to steel frames at the moment, as I'm looking to go that way for the next big purchase (although admittedly not for a couple of years yet).

on-yer-bike

infopete wrote:

If I was in the market for something steel then I would prefer to have something a bit more unique and made in the UK, something like this:

http://www.feathercycles.com/?portfolio ... -road-bike

So would I. Especially if you also own a carbon bike. Nearly all Feathers customers appear to be giants except Adam.
These frames are probably in the region of £3000.00

tp2000

For what its worth, think of it this way:

Cost of Frame as standard £1299
Cost of custom geometry (last time I looked) £100
Cost of custom paint and decals £150

Total: £1549

Ok, its handmade in Italy and not the UK (is that really an issue given the groupset and most other components are either going to be Japanese or Italian?), but its certainly not gas piping, which were you to ride one you would very quickly acknowledge.

£1549 for a completely custom steel frame that rides this well is spectacular value.

(and ok, it might be 300g heavier that an ultra lightweight steel frame like a Feather, but seriously, who is going to notice that on a frame amongst the majority of people on here? I'm actually going faster on mine than I was on an S-Works that was a good 1.5-2lbs lighter)

FransJacques

Simmo72 wrote:

So is a tall rider. 95kg -hopefully 90kg by march!- going to notice much difference from riding an Acciaio compared to a carbon frame? Most of the total weight is on my body so is going from a frame that weighs 1200grams to something that weighs 1800grams really going to make a difference?

So, so close to ordering an acciaio but I think I'm being blinkered by thinking I'll be riding a farm gate.

Feel a trip to condor coming up

OMG sir, if you put out power like a proper 90 kger (i.e. Magnus) then run, don't walk, to a Rose dealer and get this: http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-xe ... aid:615351

Of all 4 materials nothing is better for heavy and tall riders than carbon.

Simmo72

OMG sir, if you put out power like a proper 90 kger (i.e. Magnus) then run, don't walk, to a Rose dealer and get this: http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/bike/rose-xe ... aid:615351

Very , very nice but its not much different to what I have now and with an aging back/hips, 100cm legs and saddle height of 88cm I'm going to be facing a 15-18 cm drop unless I rack up the spacers to cloud city and reverse the stem, ruining the asthetics of this bike, hence acciaio with a 235mm or 255mm headtube. Its a bit like dressing your age. No point sticking me in one direction skinny jeans and waist coat, I'll just look like a twat.

not sure about carbon being the best material for heavy riders. Never had an issue with any material including carbon.

Simmo72

If I was in the market for something steel then I would prefer to have something a bit more unique and made in the UK, something like this:

http://www.feathercycles.com/?portfolio ... -road-bike

If I didn't have kids and £2500+ spare then yes, no doubt they are wonderful frames but we can't all spend a fortune on a frame. Also I'm not a great rider, I love it but don't see the point in sitting on £5ks worth of frame, wheels and super record groupset whilst being overtaken by someone half my age on a specialized allez. Bob jackson, condor and others fit a market of financially limited mortals.

rfreese888

The deal is done - Super Acciaio ordered from Condor.

I had a bike fitting last Saturday from a very good pro here in Ireland http://www.bikefittingireland.com/ who advised me on frame size, stem, handlebar width etc. and also fit me on my existing hybrid. He will get me sorted on the Condor when it arrives. It will be a couple of cm drop between saddle to stem on the SA which will take some adjustment. Time to get out the yoga mat!

Have gone for 52 cm frame with full custom color. Will get the design mock up in 2 days. Condor service brilliant as always.

Can't wait!!

bendertherobot

Superb. I love mine so much I've ordered a bivio