Michael Rogers Positive for Clenbuterol

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Comments

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,734
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Brad Wiggins has asthma. I'm sure he has a TUE. As is 25% of British Athletics.

    Not the 80% in cycling. So yes. Some fast ones being pulled.

    Rogers may have went one step too far with the horse variety.
    Wiggins is one of a number of Team GB members who suffer from asthma. Swimmer Rebecca Adlington and 25% of the athletics team suffer from the condition, according to the charity.

    http://www.londonbridgehospital.com/LBH ... sufferers/

    What does this have to do with Rogers' positive test???
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 20,641
    Hypothesis: Clenbuterol does funky lung stuff like asthma treatment hence Rogers's wicked plan

    Proof: Lots of pros are asthmatic, so funky lung stuff must be useful

    Peer review: Are there really that many asthmatics using funky lung stuff.

    => Academic discussion of asthma and cycling.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    edited December 2013
    Going back to Clenbuterol, this is a report from The Independent in 2007 about it (non-cycling related, regarding its weight loss properites): http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 41059.html

    To quote
    The site is quite realistic when it comes to side effects. "Because Clenbuterol is so good at what it does, you will likely experience... muscle cramps, increased blood pressure, increased energy [and] slight shaking," it says. It suggests eating bananas to combat cramps and advises not taking Clenbuterol after 3.30pm as it may induce insomnia, and not too close to a workout because it can affect breathing. It also warns that users may experience nausea, dizziness, drowsiness, tremors, dry mouth and vomiting. And this is the site that is trying to sell it.

    The report also mentions several unpleasant testimonies from users. It's clearly not a drug to use in competition or any time near competition.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,005
    Joelsim wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Why are we talking about asthma??

    It's because the Szechuan Horse & Ginger that Mick ate in China had asthma, and before it had been turned into a stir fry it had been rubbing clenbuterol on it's saddle sores.

    :lol::lol:
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    There's some fine expertise on display in this thread. It's appreciated.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Mad_Malx
    Mad_Malx Posts: 5,005
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Why are we talking about asthma??

    Partly my fault.
    WBT said that a main benefit of clenbuterol was to open up the airways, but this is only true if you have constricted airways (i.e. asthma), and this can be dealt with using salbutamol under a TUE. It's abused because of fat burn.

    Edit: or the belief that it will increase performance on the day - it might, but if you are going to dope with a detectable drug then you may as well use something really effective.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,734
    We had any developments today?

    Any denials or explanations??

    I mean, this is ex T mobile Freiburg Rogers.
    _
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    edited December 2013
    RichN95 wrote:
    Going back to Clenbuterol, this is a report from The Independent in 2007 about it (non-cycling related, regarding its weight loss properites): http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 41059.html

    To quote
    The site is quite realistic when it comes to side effects. "Because Clenbuterol is so good at what it does, you will likely experience... muscle cramps, increased blood pressure, increased energy [and] slight shaking," it says. It suggests eating bananas to combat cramps and advises not taking Clenbuterol after 3.30pm as it may induce insomnia, and not too close to a workout because it can affect breathing. It also warns that users may experience nausea, dizziness, drowsiness, tremors, dry mouth and vomiting. And this is the site that is trying to sell it.

    The report also mentions several unpleasant testimonies from users. It's clearly not a drug to use in competition or any time near competition.

    You raise a good point. But wander into any bodybuilding forum on Clen and they all use it before and during training.

    Some use other drugs to counteract the side effects.

    It's similar to DMAA which was in Jack3D which the tough lady died of at the London Marathon.

    Clen is well used. I've used similar and depending on dosage you happily push through training without those effects.

    Just my personal story but others may experience different.

    Re: Bodybuilding; these guys swear by it. But sounds scary!
    Yeah I gotcha, I mainly just meant that people that don't know anything about clen probs wouldn't see the association.

    Clen has an amazing feeling when working out if you have asthma though. I have sports induced asthma and while I have to watch my heart rate doing cardio/certain lifts(I've almost passed out doing squats while on clen lol), i can breathe so much better. I want to feel like that all the time lol

    http://forum.simplyshredded.com/topic/2 ... rol-cycle/
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    edited December 2013
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    We had any developments today?

    Any denials or explanations??

    I mean, this is ex T mobile Freiburg Rogers.

    Sexi Tinki's press release still the only word, but serves notice it'll be the food contamination defence.

    And Cycling Aus have said 'he's not on our turf, he's not a licence holder with us - but if he were, we'd throw the book at him'*


    *Paraphrasing

    Meanwhile Mad Uncle Oleg's tweeted a pic of himself and Riis in a bar drinking a vat of red wine and planning world domination next year
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Deleted - beaten to it
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Macaloon wrote:
    Deleted - beaten to it

    Yours was more pro, though :D
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Hot off the press from Mick's home town paper, the Canberra Times
    http://m.canberratimes.com.au/sport/cyc ... 2zo7o.html
  • mfin
    mfin Posts: 6,729
    RichN95 wrote:
    Going back to Clenbuterol, this is a report from The Independent in 2007 about it (non-cycling related, regarding its weight loss properites): http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 41059.html

    To quote
    The site is quite realistic when it comes to side effects. "Because Clenbuterol is so good at what it does, you will likely experience... muscle cramps, increased blood pressure, increased energy [and] slight shaking," it says. It suggests eating bananas to combat cramps and advises not taking Clenbuterol after 3.30pm as it may induce insomnia, and not too close to a workout because it can affect breathing. It also warns that users may experience nausea, dizziness, drowsiness, tremors, dry mouth and vomiting. And this is the site that is trying to sell it.

    The report also mentions several unpleasant testimonies from users. It's clearly not a drug to use in competition or any time near competition.

    Also, it sometimes seems here that there are people who think of Clenbuterol as some kind of equivalent to having a 'weight watchers milkshake' for tea, it's not anything of the sort. Interestingly too, if you ask the average 'dodgy bloke' down the Gym, Clen is something that's widely known about, used, and easy to get hold of.

    (pretty much what your link says)
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    mfin wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    Going back to Clenbuterol, this is a report from The Independent in 2007 about it (non-cycling related, regarding its weight loss properites): http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 41059.html

    To quote
    The site is quite realistic when it comes to side effects. "Because Clenbuterol is so good at what it does, you will likely experience... muscle cramps, increased blood pressure, increased energy [and] slight shaking," it says. It suggests eating bananas to combat cramps and advises not taking Clenbuterol after 3.30pm as it may induce insomnia, and not too close to a workout because it can affect breathing. It also warns that users may experience nausea, dizziness, drowsiness, tremors, dry mouth and vomiting. And this is the site that is trying to sell it.

    The report also mentions several unpleasant testimonies from users. It's clearly not a drug to use in competition or any time near competition.

    Also, it sometimes seems here that there are people who think of Clenbuterol as some kind of equivalent to having a 'weight watchers milkshake' for tea, it's not anything of the sort. Interestingly too, if you ask the average 'dodgy bloke' down the Gym, Clen is something that's widely known about, used, and easy to get hold of.

    (pretty much what your link says)

    When Joes take it the mess it up and it keeps them up all night.

    For a cyclist we'd use similar in the winter. Skip breakfast take your substance, ride for 3.5 hours, pop the next half and bang out the last 3 hours. Could do that on one banana!

    Clen would be much better as you maintain muscle mass. Thermogenics tend to eat some muscle away during the shred.

    You sweat like crazy but in the winter that's actually a good thing.

    I wouldn't use it in a race because with any phet I find you want to vomit after an intense effort. Rogers was probably addicted to the stuff and in a short race where Saxo desperately needed points he charged old school style.

    Then again I do accept that it's possible that it's from contaminated meat. But I doubt it. Rogers has been walking the tightrope for years. His numbers finally came up. Hard to give this guy a free pass.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,157
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Rogers was probably addicted to the stuff and in a short race where Saxo desperately needed points he charged old school style.
    So Rogers is an addict, yet has never previously tested positive for this easily detected substance? Only did it having passed through a country where it's prevalent. What a coincidence. Does that make sense? Boonen got caught for coke two times, or was it three - that's addict behaviour.
    And what points do Saxo desperately need? There's no competition for WT licences and even if there was they are 6th on the WT rankings with a brand new backer - they have no need for points.

    Do you even think through your arguments?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    RichN95 wrote:
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Rogers was probably addicted to the stuff and in a short race where Saxo desperately needed points he charged old school style.
    So Rogers is an addict, yet has never previously tested positive for this easily detected substance? Only did it having passed through a country where it's prevalent. What a coincidence. Does that make sense? Boonen got caught for coke two times, or was it three - that's addict behaviour.
    And what points do Saxo desperately need? There's no competition for WT licences and even if there was they are 6th on the WT rankings with a brand new backer - they have no need for points.

    Do you even think through your arguments?

    I do think through what I write. I'm not trying to agitate.

    Maybe sometimes I jest a little too much and it doesn't come across well. If so I apologise as I'm not trying to be confrontational.

    Nevertheless considering how prevalent you believe contamination is; you could ask the question why don't Chinese athletes test positive for Clen every 3rd day of the week?

    I assume Contador didn't dope with it either? Did lightening striking twice in the same place?

    Same team, two riders, different counties, 3 years apart, same substance..... accidentally with food?

    What would the chances of that be? :shock:

    You could also ask yourself than in the Mantova investigation in Italy one of the substances caught in use on wire tap along with EPO etc. is clenbuterol.

    Cyclists use it because it works and it enhances performance.

    Rogers Freiburg and Rogers Ferrari history speaks for itself. It's very hard to find much love for the guy. He just keeps turning up in doping reports. 10 years of turning up in doping reports. Signed by the courts.

    I know you want him to be clean but a quick glance across twitter etc. and you've got Hamilton, Jaksche amongst others smiling out one side of their mouths about Rogers finally going down. Even the brother of a Sky rider is liking the fact the guy finally got his apple crumble served cold.

    Do you really need to think too hard about him? There's not much of an argument to make when it comes to Rogers.

    I would hold out more hope for JTL who may very well be clean and sick than I would for Rogers taking a shot of dodgy meat.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Oh you're jesting...of course...rather than admit you don't know that UCI points aren't an issue for WT licences this year.

    It can be difficult keeping up with the developments in the actual world of ProTour, for sure, if you have your nose buried almost exclusively in doping posts and wiki and 6 year old news articles to back up your theories as to what's prevalent in 2013.
  • whiteboytrash
    whiteboytrash Posts: 594
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Oh you're jesting...of course...rather than admit you don't know that UCI points aren't an issue for WT licences this year.

    It can be difficult keeping up with the developments in the actual world of ProTour, for sure, if you have your nose buried almost exclusively in doping posts and wiki and 6 year old news articles to back up your theories as to what's prevalent in 2013.

    Thanks. I'm not trying to be confrontational.

    However, none of this changes the fact that Rogers has tested positive in 2013.

    And he has the distinction of having worked with two of the most notorious doping doctors/institutions in the entire history of cycling.

    Those are facts. And undisputed. No need for the word "alleged".

    He also rode for Sky in 2012 when he has his best form.

    What more can one say?
  • Stillnox
    Stillnox Posts: 38
    No love lost there:
    Joerg Jaksche ‏@jaksche 7h
    mike rogers, 10 years t-mobile and saxo and then a contaminated livestock...that is when destiny f...s you..
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    So in summary these are the possibilities:

    1.Could have been used as a fat stripper but was the wrong time of the season

    2. Could have been using an inhaler, stupid without a TUE

    3. Could have used it to cover a more sinister drug

    4. It could have been in a blood bag (do we mean a bag of his own that had clen in it?)
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • wombly_knees
    wombly_knees Posts: 657
    Yellow Peril wrote:
    So in summary these are the possibilities:

    1.Could have been used as a fat stripper but was the wrong time of the season
    Prefer a thin stripper myself, but he's Australian...
  • dsoutar
    dsoutar Posts: 1,746
    I personally think that there's a fair degree of possibility that this is a result of ingesting some contaminated meat

    However even if that is the case, it may just be karma given his history

    Of course being more Machiavellian, there is the possibility that given where he was he took it deliberately thinking that if he did get caught there would be a possible get out given the known issues with Chinese livestock
  • smokey_bacon
    smokey_bacon Posts: 1,639
    dsoutar wrote:
    I personally think that there's a fair degree of possibility that this is a result of ingesting some contaminated meat

    However even if that is the case, it may just be karma given his history

    Of course being more Machiavellian, there is the possibility that given where he was he took it deliberately thinking that if he did get caught there would be a possible get out given the known issues with Chinese livestock


    I do love a good conspiracy theory, it's why I love coming on here!

    I usually find that the simple answer is the right one. And in this case stupidity is the winner.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ^Agree. I'm leaning towards stupidity FTW
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,583
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Same team, two riders, different counties, 3 years apart, same substance..... accidentally with food?

    I thought Bertie tested positive whilst at Astana?
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,560
    Pross wrote:
    whiteboytrash wrote:
    Same team, two riders, different counties, 3 years apart, same substance..... accidentally with food?

    I thought Bertie tested positive whilst at Astana?

    He did. But why let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy...
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Mick's public statement. Nothing new.

    https://twitter.com/mickrogers/status/4 ... 3744712704
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,734
    Who else ate the meat he did?
    _
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,114
    That's irrelevant if they weren't tested too.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,734
    We don't know that.
    _

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