Headphones

GiantMike

Why is there a recent trend for incredibly expensive headphones? A set of Dr Dre Beats will set you back a cool £270.

I recently dug out my old mini-disc player and it knocks the crap out of MP3s, so is there any point in getting top end headphones to use on a sub-standard system?

Has anybody bought a pair and what's so good about them?

VTech

If you want very good headphones get yourself a pair of Urban Ears for £45 (£20 for buds)
They are far superior to the likes of Beats and only bettered by audiophile equipment.

navrig

You'll not the Dr Dres under your cycle helmet.

And the mini-Disk will jump if you hit any potholes - I had a portable player with a 40 second memory and it couldn't cope with the treadmill, jumped all over the place.

GiantMike

Navrig wrote:

You'll not the Dr Dres under your cycle helmet.

And the mini-Disk will jump if you hit any potholes - I had a portable player with a 40 second memory and it couldn't cope with the treadmill, jumped all over the place.

I can't believe that anybody from Scotland has ever spent 40 seconds on a treadmill!

While perusing the John Lewis catalogue the other day (came with the Ocado wine delivery) I noticed it had several pages of expensive headphones. It seems a very 'this year' thing, presumably now the SatNav/iPod/iPad/digital radio bubbles have busrt.

arran77

Navrig wrote:

You'll not the Dr Dres under your cycle helmet.

And the mini-Disk will jump if you hit any potholes - I had a portable player with a 40 second memory and it couldn't cope with the treadmill, jumped all over the place.

What on earth were you doing cycling on a treadmill :?

:P

daviesee

arran77 wrote:

Navrig wrote:

You'll not the Dr Dres under your cycle helmet.

And the mini-Disk will jump if you hit any potholes - I had a portable player with a 40 second memory and it couldn't cope with the treadmill, jumped all over the place.

What on earth were you doing cycling on a treadmill :?

:P

Low resistance spinning.

navrig

GiantMike wrote:

Navrig wrote:

You'll not the Dr Dres under your cycle helmet.

And the mini-Disk will jump if you hit any potholes - I had a portable player with a 40 second memory and it couldn't cope with the treadmill, jumped all over the place.

I can't believe that anybody from Scotland has ever spent 40 seconds on a treadmill!

The SNP have plans, post independence, to get most of the unemployed from Glasgow onto treadmills as part of their renewables strategy.

navrig

arran77 wrote:

Navrig wrote:

You'll not the Dr Dres under your cycle helmet.

And the mini-Disk will jump if you hit any potholes - I had a portable player with a 40 second memory and it couldn't cope with the treadmill, jumped all over the place.

What on earth were you doing cycling on a treadmill :?

:P

About 45mph.

Slowing down was a bit scarey.

symo

GiantMike wrote:

While perusing the John Lewis catalogue the other day (came with the Ocado wine delivery).

You've changed

southdownswolf

Rio wears dem on his head don' he what 'chew trippin foo'

team47b

lot of money for a lower case 'b' probably better off sticking with the ones you've got as it's for mp3 files and get ezy to make you some nice 'b' decals

schlepcycling

Blimey these are a bit pricey http://www.johnlewis.com/akg-k003-in-ear-headphones/p231434201

team47b

schlepcycling wrote:

Blimey these are a bit pricey http://www.johnlewis.com/akg-k003-in-ear-headphones/p231434201

did you read the second of the two reviews? :shock:

http://www.johnlewis.com/akg-k003-in-ea ... fo-ratings

oldbazza

Slight thread drift but you may like this;

http://longwayfromcompton.tumblr.com/

sungod

team47b wrote:

[did you read the second of the two reviews? :shock:

http://www.johnlewis.com/akg-k003-in-ea ... fo-ratings

pftt! excellent find

not only did they blow a grand on some earphones, i suspect to listen to lossy-compressed audio with, but they were too thick to understand they'll sound tinny if they don't use the right size tips to get an airtight seal

definitely an economic darwin award contender

RDW

I had a nice Sony Minidisc player a bit before the first iPod came out, when mp3 players either had a single album's worth of flash memory, or were the size of a CD player. Good sound, excellent battery life, and the anti-skip worked very well. Sennheiser make some nice headphones. With Dr Dre you're buying a fashion statement, priced accordingly.

arran77

schlepcycling wrote:

Blimey these are a bit pricey http://www.johnlewis.com/akg-k003-in-ear-headphones/p231434201

£1000 and then another £100 to get the bloody things moulded to your ears :shock:

daviesee

this is way too sensible for my liking. :evil:

Sennheiser.

rick_chasey

Depends what you want.

Beats are fine - they're not bad earphones. Quite bottom heavy but if you like that then perfect. There is a small premium for the brand, but that's like anything. People get very snobby about them but they're not bad.

Sennheiser are always pretty accurate. Personally I find then just the wrong side of harsh, but that can come with the territory when they're very precise, though I do have a pair HD 380 pros for when I'm sitting in the living room

I've had good experiences with Denon. Precise, much warmer than sennheiser, but not the most lively.

My favourite is definitely bowers&wilkins. They're all very lively. Loses a fraction of it's accuracy but it's small enough you won't notice and it is really does liven it up. They can handle it loud too, which is always important.

rick_chasey

As to what's good about them - nowadays any music player can put out a very good quality signal.

So the quality bottleneck is always going to be the headphones untill you get very expensive.

Now, you're right, there's been a quality slip recently, with MP3s being bought at 192k and not 320 which is a shame, but even a good quality headphone will make a world of difference versus any piece of plastic you get given you with your phone / mp3 player.

And if you pay attention to it, (and i'd assume someone who spends £200 odd on a pair of headphones does) i'd imagine you'd also pay attention to the quality of your MP3s.

Technology has moved to a point where you can really have some great quality stuff at not out of reach prices which is totally portable. It's brilliant!

joelsim

There is nothing great about the Beats, they are overpriced and poor value. A below average headphone for an above average price, you are paying for the marketing. They have captured the youth market by clever marketing and giving footballers etc a pair for free.

In general you get what you pay for, but many of the more expensive headphones won't be used with a mobile, they will be used with a pukka stereo system and often a dedicated headphone amp. And of course never MP3 which is dreadful quality. A CD has over 10 times the bitrate of an standard MP3 and even 8 times more than something like Spotify Premium. Lossless ripping is what some people use.

There are lots of markets from audiophiles, to DJs, the the fashion-conscious, go on a hifi forum and they laugh you off if you have a pair of Beats rather like someone on here professing their love for their Supermarket bike.

Headphones are like wine, they will all do a job, but the more you spend, the better they will be, not just from a sound quality perspective, but from the quality of materials and the longevity.

VTech

Joelsim wrote:

There is nothing great about the Beats, they are overpriced and poor value. A below average headphone for an above average price, you are paying for the marketing. They have captured the youth market by clever marketing and giving footballers etc a pair for free.

In general you get what you pay for, but many of the more expensive headphones won't be used with a mobile, they will be used with a pukka stereo system and often a dedicated headphone amp. And of course never MP3 which is dreadful quality. A CD has over 10 times the bitrate of an standard MP3 and even 8 times more than something like Spotify Premium. Lossless ripping is what some people use.

There are lots of markets from audiophiles, to DJs, the the fashion-conscious, go on a hifi forum and they laugh you off if you have a pair of Beats rather like someone on here professing their love for their Supermarket bike.

Headphones are like wine, they will all do a job, but the more you spend, the better they will be, not just from a sound quality perspective, but from the quality of materials and the longevity.

You sound like one of my friends who is VERY into audio.
He uses a small box that plugs into his iPhone and then the headphones plug into that box. Apparently gives a massive boost in quality although my poor ears couldn't tell much of a difference.
I guess it goes down to what people see fit to spend their hard earned on.
Some like cars, some audio, some bikes.

daviesee

VTech wrote:

Some like cars, some audio, some bikes.

Add in cameras and you have a very expensive lifestyle.
I should know. :oops:

ballysmate

Serious question for Joel

VTech wrote.

He uses a small box that plugs into his iPhone and then the headphones plug into that box. Apparently gives a massive boost in quality although my poor ears couldn't tell much of a difference.

Just as he says, I and most people probably couldn't tell the difference.
When mp3s are created, I understood that as the human ear can only distinguish a finite band of frequencies, the frequencies it struggles with are stripped out during compression. The more it is compressed, the more is stripped out.
So no matter what you attach to your player, it cannot add those missing frequencies, so how do these gizmos work?
Also, as the ear is delicate and can distinguish some frequencies better than others, I would say that most people, especially me, are guilty of playing their music too loudly to experience the full sound.


Or I could be talking bollox about the creation of mp3s. Not bollox about playing music too loudly, people are damaging their ears.

daviesee

Ballysmate wrote:

Serious question for Joel

VTech wrote.

He uses a small box that plugs into his iPhone and then the headphones plug into that box. Apparently gives a massive boost in quality although my poor ears couldn't tell much of a difference.

Just as he says, I and most people probably couldn't tell the difference.
When mp3s are created, I understood that as the human ear can only distinguish a finite band of frequencies, the frequencies it struggles with are stripped out during compression. The more it is compressed, the more is stripped out.
So no matter what you attach to your player, it cannot add those missing frequencies, so how do these gizmos work?
Also, as the ear is delicate and can distinguish some frequencies better than others, I would say that most people, especially me, are guilty of playing their music too loudly to experience the full sound.


Or I could be talking bollox about the creation of mp3s. Not bollox about playing music too loudly, people are damaging their ears.

Some headphones need extra power to drive them properly that phones etc simply do not have. Amplification is required for those headphones, but not all headphones need it.
Headphone amplifiers have nothing to do with volume (although that is a by-product) or source (although they will amplify crap in/crap out).

team47b

VTech wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

There is nothing great about the Beats, they are overpriced and poor value. A below average headphone for an above average price, you are paying for the marketing. They have captured the youth market by clever marketing and giving footballers etc a pair for free.

In general you get what you pay for, but many of the more expensive headphones won't be used with a mobile, they will be used with a pukka stereo system and often a dedicated headphone amp. And of course never MP3 which is dreadful quality. A CD has over 10 times the bitrate of an standard MP3 and even 8 times more than something like Spotify Premium. Lossless ripping is what some people use.

There are lots of markets from audiophiles, to DJs, the the fashion-conscious, go on a hifi forum and they laugh you off if you have a pair of Beats rather like someone on here professing their love for their Supermarket bike.

Headphones are like wine, they will all do a job, but the more you spend, the better they will be, not just from a sound quality perspective, but from the quality of materials and the longevity.

You sound like one of my friends who is VERY into audio.

joelsim

Ballysmate wrote:

Serious question for Joel

VTech wrote.

He uses a small box that plugs into his iPhone and then the headphones plug into that box. Apparently gives a massive boost in quality although my poor ears couldn't tell much of a difference.

Just as he says, I and most people probably couldn't tell the difference.
When mp3s are created, I understood that as the human ear can only distinguish a finite band of frequencies, the frequencies it struggles with are stripped out during compression. The more it is compressed, the more is stripped out.
So no matter what you attach to your player, it cannot add those missing frequencies, so how do these gizmos work?
Also, as the ear is delicate and can distinguish some frequencies better than others, I would say that most people, especially me, are guilty of playing their music too loudly to experience the full sound.


Or I could be talking bollox about the creation of mp3s. Not bollox about playing music too loudly, people are damaging their ears.

That's correct, you only get out an amplified signal of what you put in. So if you use a basic MP3 then it is a tune stripped of much of the detail. Of course some of it is ok to lose but it also takes out quite a lot of what you can hear. I did a test recently using Spotify Premium vs a CD of exactly the same music across many different tracks and artists and in every single one the CD was far better to my ears. More involving, warmer (ie more enveloping) and just sounded nicer overall. The test was done on my hifi, the CD obviously went through the CDP's DAC, Spotify was streamed, also through the CDP's DAC so in essence the test was a simple switch using all the same equipment except for the CDP's transport and the computer and of course the file itself.

Your friend is probably using a portable DAC/headphone amp. Once it's stripped out you can't put it back. That's why when audiophiles rip music (and many still don't), they do it with lossless compression which is far better than an MP3.

For illustrative purposes:
MP3 standard 192kbps
Spotify Premium 320
CD 1,411

joelsim

daviesee wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Serious question for Joel

VTech wrote.

He uses a small box that plugs into his iPhone and then the headphones plug into that box. Apparently gives a massive boost in quality although my poor ears couldn't tell much of a difference.

Just as he says, I and most people probably couldn't tell the difference.
When mp3s are created, I understood that as the human ear can only distinguish a finite band of frequencies, the frequencies it struggles with are stripped out during compression. The more it is compressed, the more is stripped out.
So no matter what you attach to your player, it cannot add those missing frequencies, so how do these gizmos work?
Also, as the ear is delicate and can distinguish some frequencies better than others, I would say that most people, especially me, are guilty of playing their music too loudly to experience the full sound.


Or I could be talking bollox about the creation of mp3s. Not bollox about playing music too loudly, people are damaging their ears.

Some headphones need extra power to drive them properly that phones etc simply do not have. Amplification is required for those headphones, but not all headphones need it.
Headphone amplifiers have nothing to do with volume (although that is a by-product) or source (although they will amplify crap in/crap out).

Correct. A typical phone headphone will have a low resistance, maybe 32 Ohms, a hifi headphone designed to be used with an amp will have 600 Ohms which means it needs to be driven by an amp.

The funny thing is I use a pair of Shure earbuds which are very neutral ie they don't overemphasise the bass, which many of today's models do. When I tried them with a portable headphone amp that was designed to be used with bass-heavy earbuds my Shure's sounded screechy, whereas a model I also tried they sounded fine. Without the amp my Shure's sounded so much better. It's really about matching.

joelsim

team47b wrote:

VTech wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

There is nothing great about the Beats, they are overpriced and poor value. A below average headphone for an above average price, you are paying for the marketing. They have captured the youth market by clever marketing and giving footballers etc a pair for free.

In general you get what you pay for, but many of the more expensive headphones won't be used with a mobile, they will be used with a pukka stereo system and often a dedicated headphone amp. And of course never MP3 which is dreadful quality. A CD has over 10 times the bitrate of an standard MP3 and even 8 times more than something like Spotify Premium. Lossless ripping is what some people use.

There are lots of markets from audiophiles, to DJs, the the fashion-conscious, go on a hifi forum and they laugh you off if you have a pair of Beats rather like someone on here professing their love for their Supermarket bike.

Headphones are like wine, they will all do a job, but the more you spend, the better they will be, not just from a sound quality perspective, but from the quality of materials and the longevity.

You sound like one of my friends who is VERY into audio.

I am. Ha ha. Audio nerd, although not as bad as I used to be. Got a nice hifi system and a business selling headphones.

team47b

Nearly everyone knows that, (the fact you have a headphone business and know what you are talking about bit not the nerd bit) that's why it was funny

I think you could build up quite a good client list here, I'm sure it's not against the rules, it's not like you're promoting a wheel building service for example

joelsim

team47b wrote:

Nearly everyone knows that, (the fact you have a headphone business and know what you are talking about bit not the nerd bit) that's why it was funny

I think you could build up quite a good client list here, I'm sure it's not against the rules, it's not like you're promoting a wheel building service for example

No, unfortunately I'm not allowed to post any offers on here, have been told off once for doing it. Best thing is to get in touch if you want to discuss anything/advice etc.