Health and Safety at University or Lack of

the playing mantis

ooo plenty of my liberal friends is there?

Stevo_666

the playing mantis wrote:

ooo plenty of my liberal friends is there?

There are a few beardy sandal wearing Volvo drivers. Not quite the same since they voluntarily stopped the 'Leftiebollox' threads after a few people got a bit carried away - I had a bit of fun there a while back.

the playing mantis

beardy sandal wearers are fine, its the student, right on, hipster, middle class ones that i like best

Stevo_666

the playing mantis wrote:

beardy sandal wearers are fine, its the student, right on, hipster, middle class ones that i like best

Take your pick

finchy

Lots of the replies on here about the OP's daughter needing to take responsibility for her own actions, but what none of us know is whether she should even have been aware of what the substance was and what precautions she needed to take. She may also have seen members of the teaching staff and/or other professionals working in the darkroom without wearing goggles and assumed that it was a low-risk activity if experienced workers are doing so. Do a google image search for "darkroom developing film" - I can't see too many people in these photos wearing goggles, so that might just be normal practice. Let's hear the full facts before jumping in to criticise.

the playing mantis

if its normal practise not to, then the uni shouldnt be at fault, and the people should thus be extra careful themselves

finchy

Sorry, I should have said accepted practice, not normal practice.

rjsterry

arran77 wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Ballysmate wrote:

Colinthecop wrote:

Flashart wrote:

You may well have a good case for compensation (county court)

I know its wrong to judge people, especially after only 3 posts. But can I just say, I hate you...!!!

:roll:

Doesn't endear himself does he?

Suggesting that a Uni student who can't work out that it would be wise to wear specs when working with acid, should sue the university for failing to state the bleedin' obvious is beyond parody.

The law doesn't look at it like that, in the event of serious accidents if it's found that reasonable steps were not taken to prevent such an occurence then those in charge could be fined or go to jail, regardless of those involved in the accidents not having taken what would appear to most to be obvious precautions. If the Uni didn't explicitly say always wear goggles and provide them then they are very likely in breach of the rules. Just saying that the students shouldn't be so stupid isn't a defence and if you are bored there are plenty of accident case studies on the HSE website that illustrate this.

We all know what the law says. It is somewhat depressing to have to agree that there will be reams of case law, showing you to be correct. It is because of such attitudes that we are turning into a nation of total w@nkers.
That is why cups of coffee have warnings on them and even some packets of nuts warn us that they may contain nuts.
FFS people. Lets start to think and take responsibility for our own actions.

Oh don't get me wrong, it can bug the sh1t out of me too in many cases..like I said, easy example http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/maint ... sulate.htm

Quite why you'd pick up wires without checking they are live first I don't know but it still cost the firm a fine which seems absurd.

That's ridiculous, the first thing that any electrical apprentice learns is to assume that cables are always live FFS :roll:

The point with that one is not that they should have told him to check the wires weren't live, but that they shouldn't have let someone that incompetent anywhere near the wires in the first place.

smidsy

Flashart wrote:

You may well have a good case for compensation (county court) if that's the route you wanted to go down

AND THAT is exactly why companies tend to go overboard witht their "H&S" requirements.

arran77

johnfinch wrote:

Lots of the replies on here about the OP's daughter needing to take responsibility for her own actions, but what none of us know is whether she should even have been aware of what the substance was and what precautions she needed to take. She may also have seen members of the teaching staff and/or other professionals working in the darkroom without wearing goggles and assumed that it was a low-risk activity if experienced workers are doing so. Do a google image search for "darkroom developing film" - I can't see too many people in these photos wearing goggles, so that might just be normal practice. Let's hear the full facts before jumping in to criticise.

Nail, head

Assumption is the mother of all feck ups :roll:

the playing mantis

Disagree, I see the pros descending at 50+ and cornering sharply, I don't think o, I can do that straightaway, and promptly get wiped out. I pussy foot around and take corners very carefully, it's called not being blase and having a bit of common sense.

Maybe I should just do what the pros do, fall of then sue everyone in sight because of my own ignorance/ lack of due care

finchy

The difference is that the pros do not have a duty of care to you. If a university is educating a student, then it should be explaining health and safety rules clearly.

Anyway, the OP never mentioned suing anyone, just the fact that the university MIGHT have been negligent.

BTW, I'm not saying that the OP's daughter is right or wrong in this case, just that nobody on here knows the full story.

daviesee

johnfinch wrote:

BTW, I'm not saying that the OP's daughter is right or wrong in this case, just that nobody on here knows the full story.

Phht.
Tis t'internet.
No one let's facts get in the way.

the playing mantis

Isn't part of university about becoming independent, doing things for yourself, and taking responsibility for your own actions?

arran77

That's exactly it isn't it, taking responsibility for your own actions, some people seem totally incapable of making a judgment on what is or isn't a sensible thing to do.

It's like I said earlier I think this all stems from a very young age now when children are totally wrapped in cotton wool and not given the chance to try things out and learn for themselves, consequently as they grow up these people are totally reliant on others to tell them what is or isn't safe.

Stevo 666 said it earlier, stop molly coddling these people and let Darwin sort this all out

seanoconn

Health & Safety has turned into a monster a real money spinner for some. Having to risk assess the most menial straightforward task, can make people's live a misery. Not to mention law suits and fines for other people's lack of common sense.

That said. Health and Safety saves lives. Go back 15/20 years and the chances of being pressured into working in an enviroment that could be bad for your health, or performing a dangerous task without the proper equipment/training, were far higher.

Going back to the OP. Without knowing the full details, I'd say the University have a responsibility to provide protective clothing and to telling the students to wear it when using harmful chemicals.

daviesee

Gaaaaaddddd!!!!

Its getting worse.
Totally unrelated, but relevant.
A guy next to me at work was telling a story about a previous employment where a guy stood up during the safety induction course to happily tell this story.

He was at a major store when the fire alarm went off.
As he has been on these courses before, he knew exactly what to do. He and his wife immediately went to the fire exit and started going down the stairs. Ensuring that they were holding onto the railings as they went. The railings stopped part of the way down, and he went into a panic attack as he did not know what to do. His wife had to calm him down and escort him out of the building.

I fear for the future of this Country. I really do.

finchy

the playing mantis wrote:

Isn't part of university about becoming independent, doing things for yourself, and taking responsibility for your own actions?

To become independent, you need knowledge. A bit of basic H&S isn't going to turn the OP's daughter into a helpless child-adult incapable of doing anything by herself. You can, of course, take things way too far, as per the example above, but sticking up a sign saying "goggles must be worn" isn't going way too far.

Colinthecop

johnfinch wrote:

To become independent, you need knowledge. A bit of basic H&S isn't going to turn the OP's daughter into a helpless child-adult incapable of doing anything by herself.

Although the first thing she does when something goes wrong is to contact daddy to come and bail her out.

Not really a sign if independence. :shock:

finchy

Colinthecop wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

To become independent, you need knowledge. A bit of basic H&S isn't going to turn the OP's daughter into a helpless child-adult incapable of doing anything by herself.

Although the first thing she does when something goes wrong is to contact daddy to come and bail her out.

Not really a sign if independence. :shock:

Bloody hell, families help each other even when they're adults.

Actually you're right, she isn't independent. There is no such thing as complete independence. Humans are interdependent and there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're willing to help those who help you.

Colinthecop

johnfinch wrote:

Bloody hell, families help each other even when they're adults.

So in a University when you have acid in your eye, the best person to give you a lift down to A&E is your dad who's half and hour away...?

finchy

Colinthecop wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Bloody hell, families help each other even when they're adults.

So in a University when you have acid in your eye, the best person to give you a lift down to A&E is your dad who's half and hour away...?

Dunno. Depends on where the family home is in relation to the university and the hospital, whether or not there was anyone available on site to give a lift, maybe the OP has first aid experience and would be the best person to take her...

Again, without knowing the full facts it is hard to say much about the case.

arran77

johnfinch wrote:

Again, without knowing the full facts it is hard to say much about the case.

We've managed 3 pages so far without the facts so don't worry about that

We'll have to wait for the OP to respond and fill us in

finchy

Yes, OP's gone a bit quite. Come on man, give us the facts, otherwise it's going to be trial by ordeal

daviesee

johnfinch wrote:

Yes, OP's gone a bit quite. Come on man, give us the facts, otherwise it's going to be trial by ordeal

Maybe hasnt quite got the expected response.

arran77

daviesee wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Yes, OP's gone a bit quite. Come on man, give us the facts, otherwise it's going to be trial by ordeal

Maybe hasnt quite got the expected response.

Or maybe he's passed out with the pain after trapping his todger in his zip because his trousers didn't have a health and safety warning on them

bompington

arran77 wrote:

We'll have to wait for the OP to ... fill us in

I'm sure he's itching to fill in at least some posters...
...but I have to say that I'm with the overall tone of exasperation at h&s culture, and especially all those whose fear of falling foul of it leads them to go further than the (actually quite reasonable in most cases) requirements of the law.

DavidBelcher

Ballysmate wrote:

Colinthecop wrote:

Flashart wrote:

You may well have a good case for compensation (county court)

I know its wrong to judge people, especially after only 3 posts. But can I just say, I hate you...!!!

:roll:

Doesn't endear himself does he?

Suggesting that a Uni student who can't work out that it would be wise to wear specs when working with acid, should sue the university for failing to state the bleedin' obvious is beyond parody.

Depends whether the department even provided any PPE in the first place! The art department at the secondary school I work in uses some fairly nasty stuff for printing and etching projects (10% nitric acid, strong caustic soda solution, potassium dichromate solution), all of it made up over in the chemistry department by yours truly. I also had to bring their staff up to speed on safety aspects as they had no real background in chemical handling or knowledge of the hazards involved, so based on my own experience of dealing with non-science subjects there may well be gaping holes in the University's H&S practice in the first place.

David

the playing mantis

Reckon ops been knoi of his bike by vtech in his rr sport!

mr_goo

An interesting mix of replies.

Firstly taking any legal action against the university never even came into our thoughts.
Secondly, after ensuring that my daughter was okay. I asked her whether it occurred to her to wear protective goggles (Apparently not, though I suspect she will now). She has been working with the solution for the last four years without incident. It is a method of creating plates from etchings to produce a printing plate.