Returned goods being sold as new...?

cycleclinic

I am always buying second hand bike kit even though I have access to everything new at trade prices. Out of the ten bikes I own all but two where bought new and have new kit on them. Most are older frames kitted out with mostly period parts which I could have bought new too but I bought second hand ebay bargins instead.

To the folk that think new should really be new then you cannot buy anything from anywhere. Also new in unopened packaging does not make it somehow better. When I get some hubs in stock I open the box and check the bearings, record hubs do sometimes need the preload adjuster setting up to remove play. There is nothing wrong with the hub but the customer would think so if I did not check. So what would all the new new crowd rather I do. Not open the box and send out a product in which there is nothing wrong but the customer may think there is or open the box check and correct the "problem" and then post it.

I also find some hubs, NOS Athena ones were the latest, where the bearings did not feel smooth so I spun the bearings with a drill and withing seconds they were silky smooth. Nothing wrong with the hub at all but sometimes bearings feel like that. These hubs got posted to Germany so I do not want a unhappy german customer as a return would be expensive for me. This hub issue presents it self sometimes with new serviced fulcrum hubs and the drill comes out then and sorts the problem - I learnt that of the fulcrum service guys (I-ride).

So another product I sent out with opened packaging but I was checking everything was O.K. I would ask all the new new crowd not to buy of me as you may get opened packaging as I do check stuff sometimes.

MickTheMove

Can't feel any sympathy for online retailers, if it's not right send it back. If I even had an inkling that what I had brought was not brand new, I would back it to the Etailer. Unless off course it was a truly great deal as it should be from online retailers who have tiny overheads compared to high street Bike shops

BillyMansell

I though it was only babies under one year old that were more interested in the packaging than the contents but clearly not.

nigelgos

I'm yet to hear back from them. I sent them an email on Monday evening and a tweet Tuesday daytime. :-/

markhewitt1978

barrybarryr wrote:

If you buy something as new, it should be new.

If it has been returned the shop should be obliged to tell you it is a return.

Nobody wants to buy something that someone has had before.

Quite. Despite shop owners protests I find selling items which have been opened as new to be dishonest. It should at least be sold as 'seal broken all parts checked', at a nominal discount.

alihisgreat

Slowbike wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Buying two different sizes of clothing in my book means you do not know what size fits you in which case visit a shop that i what they are for.

I can't believe ppl do that .. that's exactly what a physical shop is good for - trying on the different sizes and find one that fits - even same sized items may fit differently and not be right for you.

Not everyone is lucky enough to be close to a LBS that actually stocks anything of use :roll:

eg my LBS stocks Endura MTB gear.. but only expensive Castelli, Assos, Exteondo etc. road gear.. so if I want to buy Endura road kit.. or any other brand... what am I supposed to do?

slowbike

markhewitt1978 wrote:

barrybarryr wrote:

If you buy something as new, it should be new.

If it has been returned the shop should be obliged to tell you it is a return.

Nobody wants to buy something that someone has had before.

Quite. Despite shop owners protests I find selling items which have been opened as new to be dishonest. It should at least be sold as 'seal broken all parts checked', at a nominal discount.

you're so funny ...

pkripper

markhewitt1978 wrote:

barrybarryr wrote:

If you buy something as new, it should be new.

If it has been returned the shop should be obliged to tell you it is a return.

Nobody wants to buy something that someone has had before.

Quite. Despite shop owners protests I find selling items which have been opened as new to be dishonest. It should at least be sold as 'seal broken all parts checked', at a nominal discount.

Then virtually every retailer will be dishonest then surely? Should all clothes in any clothes shop be marked as 'possibly shop soiled', or do you accept those are new? If you went into a shop and bought a bike, do you not think that unless you bought a size that was built up from the box that it would not have been sat on, had the brakes played with etc? Even a new bike, the mechanic will almost certainly have tested it to some degree.

markhewitt1978

Slowbike wrote:

you're so funny ...

Just because it's standard practice to be dishonest doesn't mean it's right.

me-109

My car had 8 miles on the clock when I collected it. Does that make it used?

slowbike

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

you're so funny ...

Just because it's standard practice to be dishonest doesn't mean it's right.

What does "used" mean ...

you seem to want your goods untouched by human hands - well that's just not going to happen is it - because most of the goods you buy involve humans to make them. Then they get packaged up and sent out.
consumer is within their rights to question any item that comes out in open packaging. Of course it is possible to re-package as per manufacturer (or if the retailer is big enough then they might have their own packaging) - it doesn't mean that it's not been opened and inspected or even sent out and returned.
As a distributor (non-cycle stuff) we sometimes get items returned from our retailers - if it is not broken and packaging is fine then it is just put back on the shelf to be resold as new - if the packaging is damaged then we may repackage it and resell it as new - if there is nothing wrong with the product and it is complete and unused then why shouldn't it be done?

on-yer-bike

Rapha is only sold in three shops in the country. They expect you to buy as many sizes as you like and return. They probably inspect, refold and repackage everything that is sent back which is why their stuff comes in plastic bags.

High street shops no longer stock very much because they cant compete on price with the online shops.

simonj

How's this then, if I go into a shop, pick a shirt off the rack, try it on, it doesn't fit, the nice lady brings me a fatter one which does fit, I buy that. What do they do with the old one, mark it as used - it's not technically new, but there's nothing wrong with it. I bet the fat bloke shirt I bought was tried on by someone else before me. It's not just online retailers, high street shops do it too, I just think people are blissfully unaware and no one is really in a rush to point it out.

I think someone else said it, it's no inherently wrong for goods that have been opened, or even tried on to be sold and new and unused, it's if something has been opened and blatently used and shows signs of that or has bits missing when it's not right as it potentially has a lesser value, but that's up to the rerturns department to sort that out and make sure that doesn't happen. It's the law that goods sold from a far can be returned, catalogues have been doing it for years, it's just companies that are in that line of business needs a returns department with good quality control.

limoneboy

Going Back to the original post are you taking about the 11 speed spacer, if so ,2 sets of campy wheels i have didn't come with one , but i have used the spacer from a 10 speed casette behind and it works great, might just be a quick fix to get you on the road , metal ones work best.

nigelgos wrote:

I won't mention the etailer as I might be jumping to conclusions and don't want to damage reputations (and get myself into trouble).

My Fulcrum R5 2013 arrived today. Firstly the box looked like it had been re-sellotaped. Then inside the package the A4 padded envelope was missing the spacers. The skewers and instructions inside the envelope were not in a further sealed bag (YouTube videos show Fulcrum usually do).

Cosmetically everything looks fine apart from the missing spacers that I need so although I know I may be being a little nit-picky I don't like the idea that I may be buying returned goods.

Someone put me at ease and tell me they just forgot to put the spacers in at the factory

keef66

If I was being fitted with say an artificial heart valve, I'd want it to be in the original packaging with the seal intact.

For a set of bike wheels, not so much...

markhewitt1978

keef66 wrote:

If I was being fitted with say an artificial heart valve, I'd want it to be in the original packaging with the seal intact.

There was a story yesterday saying they are going to take pacemakers out of dead people and ship them off to countries outside the EU. Mind you I don't expect they'd be sold as new

slowbike

markhewitt1978 wrote:

keef66 wrote:

If I was being fitted with say an artificial heart valve, I'd want it to be in the original packaging with the seal intact.

There was a story yesterday saying they are going to take pacemakers out of dead people and ship them off to countries outside the EU. Mind you I don't expect they'd be sold as new

You know what - that's a flipping good idea ..

Oh - I take it you're against transplants ... ? Secondhand goods n all that ... Not sure I'd want a heart in it's original wrappings .... !

markhewitt1978

I'm all for second hand goods; sold as such.

pkripper

markhewitt1978 wrote:

I'm all for second hand goods; sold as such.

But these goods are not second hand, as ownership has been rejected.

giant_man

yeah i think we get the message mark ... :roll:

ilovegrace

Recieved some running shoes over the weekend , did a five mile road run in them , calf's wreaked and ankles sore.
got the toothbrush out cleaned the soles to within an inch of there life and sent them back for an exchange.
If the new shoes come as new and if someone has tried them before and realized they have made a mistake then Ok ,I would rather have the option of sending gear back that does not suit and receive" tried " gear that does.
Put it this way , £100 worth of new shoe in the cupboard good for nothing but gardening and diy or a pair of "tried" on shoes that will serve their purpose.
As i see it is a win win.

I

rolf_f

ilovegrace wrote:

Recieved some running shoes over the weekend , did a five mile road run in them , calf's wreaked and ankles sore.
got the toothbrush out cleaned the soles to within an inch of there life and sent them back for an exchange.
If the new shoes come as new and if someone has tried them before and realized they have made a mistake then Ok ,I would rather have the option of sending gear back that does not suit and receive" tried " gear that does.
Put it this way , £100 worth of new shoe in the cupboard good for nothing but gardening and diy or a pair of "tried" on shoes that will serve their purpose.
As i see it is a win win.

I

Those are second hand and I wouldn't want to be sent them as new. If I try on shoes at home, I make sure they stay in the house and on the carpet when I try them out. Not really a proper test but at some point you have to take a chance. Shoes that have done a five mile run are second hand however much you clean the soles.

the playing mantis

thecycleclinic wrote:

Were are retailers going to get new packaging from, the distributors do not supply that seperatley, so that i not possible and if such packaging were available can you imagine how much campagnolo packaging would cost it would not be worth it.

Buying two different sizes of clothing in my book means you do not know what size fits you in which case visit a shop that i what they are for. On -line retail in my book is for those who know exactly what they need. I get e-mails all the time from people who have no clue what parts fit what on there bike and I have to spend alot of time explain the comaptability of the various products. I do that because I want to help but really they should be visting an LBS as if they cannot understand the compability can they really fit the part? I do not sell clothing online as I do not want to be dealing with the inevitable returns as I do not believe I could turn a profit on clothing without doing very high volumes.

If you do not know exactly the size you need in clothing visit a shop and buy from there and the same goes for bike parts. If I buy the wrong thing from a ditributor I cannot send it back, I have to know what I am buying.

Buy to look and see if it will work and then return if it does not is not how it is supposed to work (at least the way I look at retail), showrooms/shops exist for that reason use them.

I do not want to give the impression that returns are a problem they are not and I factor a return rate into my pricing (which i why it is not a problem). I also bend over backwards to help people and I do not quibble when it comes to returns (as I value customers and most retailers are the same) but to be honest some buyers need to man up a bit or just ask for advise before they buy to ensure they get the right part. Now there is an idea.

if you don't think people returning stuff online having bought more than 1 size of said item, is on, i think you need to get into the real world and look at most big retailers (not just cycling) online returns policies, and see who is more successful.

its perfectly within the buyers interests to order as many different sizes, colors etc as they want and return as many of them as they want if not all without major issue. That's the way the world works these days. the consumer is king and companies that don't like it (not saying yours is one as you say you factor it in even though for some reason your personal view is against it) wont last long.

the playing mantis

Slowbike wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

Buying two different sizes of clothing in my book means you do not know what size fits you in which case visit a shop that i what they are for.

I can't believe ppl do that .. that's exactly what a physical shop is good for - trying on the different sizes and find one that fits - even same sized items may fit differently and not be right for you.

what if there are no local retailers that sell a particular brand/item you want to try?

even if they did, for me personally id rather save time and get it delivered at home and try stuff and get 2nd opinions in the comfort of my own home at a convenient time for me, rather than have to go to a shop to do it, that would take more time up.

its the 21st century now. many shops in all sectors have had there day, like it or not.

the playing mantis

Bozman wrote:

I always buy two sizes on-line because I've learnt my lesson in the past, cycling clothing is very hit and miss with sizing so you just send back the one that doesn't fit. I must have ordered £300/£400s worth of winter clothing a month ago and I probably sent £150 back due to sizing, the retailer won't be p1ssed at me because I still spent £250.
Folk use the net for the vast choice of clothing etc, the ease of order, the free delivery and generally free returns.
If you want a Castelli Gabba(common issue on this forum), you order a M and L from an on-line retailer, they arrive two days later, you try them on and then you send one back..... or maybe two if you're unlucky on size, Bobs your uncle. No peeing about finding an LBS that stocks one, no petrol, no parking and no hassle.
It's the age we live in.

spot on, people need to get with the modern age.

the playing mantis

as for those saying stuff that has been returned should be labelled/sold as such. dont be so dumb.

sure retailers should send out all the bits and bobs that should have been in them had they been unopened, ie your missing spacers, thats the bike shop cocking up, but had they not cocked that up and it was just the box and the plastic that had been resealed, big whoop.

most people return stuff in the packaging it came in (if it did come in plastic packaging if its cloths, many dont) and the retailer just repacks it in them and reseals it. to have an issue with this is silly and naive of how selling stuff works.

nigelgos

limoneboy wrote:

Going Back to the original post are you taking about the 11 speed spacer, if so ,2 sets of campy wheels i have didn't come with one , but i have used the spacer from a 10 speed casette behind and it works great, might just be a quick fix to get you on the road , metal ones work best.

Well this thread certainly provided a talking point

The etailer replied saying it is possible that the wheels are returned as they have a 365 day (!) unused return policy. I guess thats not really a problem but it worries me that the returns are not being checked if bits are missing.

Can anyone 100% confirm that I should have had the spacers come with this set? From what I can tell I should have had a 1mm and a 1.85mm. I'm fitting a 9 speed cassette but in the new year (if I've been a good boy) I should be fitting a new 10 speed.

ugo.santalucia

My wife, like many women, buys clothes and shoes online and returns most of the stuff she buys... should all that stuff be sold as "Not new" then?
C'mon, be real...

ilovegrace

Those are second hand and I wouldn't want to be sent them as new. If I try on shoes at home, I make sure they stay in the house and on the carpet when I try them out. Not really a proper test but at some point you have to take a chance. Shoes that have done a five mile run are second hand however much you clean the soles.[/quote]
Go to any decent running shop and they will let you go for a run around the block , what about bikes. myLBS will let you ride out for a couple of miles (in the dry) to seeif the bike fits.
Second hand ? do me a favour.

pkripper

ilovegrace wrote:

Recieved some running shoes over the weekend , did a five mile road run in them , calf's wreaked and ankles sore.
got the toothbrush out cleaned the soles to within an inch of there life and sent them back for an exchange.
If the new shoes come as new and if someone has tried them before and realized they have made a mistake then Ok ,I would rather have the option of sending gear back that does not suit and receive" tried " gear that does.
Put it this way , £100 worth of new shoe in the cupboard good for nothing but gardening and diy or a pair of "tried" on shoes that will serve their purpose.
As i see it is a win win.

I

That, I don't agree with. I know Sweatshop do a 30 day swap, but they don't sell the shoes on as new. If I'd got those shoes, I'd not have been a happy boy.

And if you're trying out a new shoe / brand, that's where running shops come in.