Tacx Flow Multiplayer VR Trainer

robstevens

Anybody got any experiences with the Tacx Flow Multiplayer VR Trainer that they could share?

Very interested as the online reviews seem to be good, but would like to hear from some users or those that have experienced one of these machines.

TIA

Rob

hardyp

No personal experience but when I was looking into them, main issues seem to be with software and having to pair devices before every ride. Quite a good independent review of the top of the range model on dc rain maker which will probably use the same software.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/02/geni ... eview.html

DaveL

I've had one, did not have any problems with it at all. As a concept, and on the technical side it's great, but I just don't get on with turbo trainers (prefer rollers). I had a few films with it and from what I can remember the quality and scenery was great.

Any specific questions just ask

Dave

robstevens

hardyp wrote:

No personal experience but when I was looking into them, main issues seem to be with software and having to pair devices before every ride. Quite a good independent review of the top of the range model on dc rain maker which will probably use the same software.

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/02/geni ... eview.html

Very interesting review!

Thx for the link!

Cheers

Rob

robstevens

DaveL wrote:

I've had one, did not have any problems with it at all. As a concept, and on the technical side it's great, but I just don't get on with turbo trainers (prefer rollers). I had a few films with it and from what I can remember the quality and scenery was great.

Any specific questions just ask

Dave

Dave,

I do have one particular question....well 2 actually!


Could you set up a training program say for a month of training in advance or would you have to select each program as you hop on the machine?

ie Day 1 aerobic, Day 2 intervals, Day 3 etc etc

Does the machine come with preset training programs as above, or do you have to dial all these in manually?

Many thanks

Rob

DaveL

Hi Rob, sorry I can't answer your questions, if it did have built in training plans I never used them as I only bought it for the videos.
I can't even check as I deleted the software off my PC a few weeks ago.

If you are looking at training plans, have you had a look at TrainerRoad, they have quite a few training plans that might suit your needs

Dave

StillGoing

I have the Tacx i-Flow VR trainer with steerer mechanism. Loading updates can be problematic but once done it runs flawlessly. I use it for the DVDs, my own routes via Google Earth and the catalyst training plans. In the catalyst plans, there is a list of various sessions, you just select which one you want to do on the day. If you upgrade to the Advanced licence which I did, you can create your own catalyst plans specific to your needs. You do need a Windows PC with a powerful enough graphics card to run the software so make sure you check the system requirements. If like me you set the device up in the garage, I'd also recommend a good size PC screen for the best on screen viewing and a 5 meter USB extension so you aren't sitting on top of the screen. As of yet, you can't run the software on a Mac unless you partition it to run windows.

robstevens

Thanks for the responses guys!

I finally dug deep and purchased one....pretty impressed so far....not sure I even need to go for teh full license for this winter season as there seems so much to go with already!

Got a free download film too which is a 16k section of the Giro and if I managed to ride that without passing out before the end of winter I will be impressed!!

Luckily my lappy is up to the job of running the software so all is good!

PS bit disapointed with my Watts per KG so lots of work to do!!

Rob

StillGoing

The power test (FTP) in the Catalysts is worth doing before you commence on your winter training and then do it again at the end to see how you've improved.

robstevens

I did the FTP test and was sorely saddened! :roll:

Mind you, after not having done anything too physical for the last 20 years and only just started cycling mid summer, I guess there is everything to gain!

I think I have just about got the gist of the software now and it seems pretty good so will have to see how it goes!

I just need to have a think about what I want from my training as the options seem to be vast on this set up!

Rob

StillGoing

Indeed they are. As for the DVDs the Honister Pass one is worth downloading.

brettjmcc

philthy3 wrote:

The power test (FTP) in the Catalysts is worth doing before you commence on your winter training and then do it again at the end to see how you've improved.

Is this in TTS4 only? I don't remember seeing a FTP test in TTS3 (which I have)

StillGoing

I have TTS4 so maybe?

robstevens

I'm running TTS4, so not sure?

Might be worth a look on the TACX forum as there seems to be a lot of info on there...

Now got a bit of a training plan programmed in, but I daresay it will evolve over time...

bobo696

Hi there I recently bought this trainer and I would like to use it with trainer road. On default settings ( I think the slope must be 0%) I'm using the highest gear. Is there a way to manually increase the slope? In trainer road there are 2 options, either 0% or 4%, so I would like to set the resistance to 4% as 0% is too easy.

But I can't find anywhere the option to manually increase the resistance. The solution I see is to use catalyst but it requires that each time I want to use trainer road I have to launch catalyst, which is a pain ?

Any ideas guys ?

Thanks

StillGoing

Not sure how catalyst is a pain? If you program your own catalyst session, you can set the gradient, interval and distance for each section. So you can easily program a warm up for the required time or distance, then set each interval as you wish something like 10 min warm up 0%, 3 min 2%, 1 min 0%, 3 min 3%, 1 min 0%, 3 min 4%, 1 min 0% etc etc to whatever time span you want.

sbbefc

With these trainers how realistic are they in difficulty compared to doing a climb in real life?

For example if you climbed the Alpe d huez in an hour on the trainer would you be expecting to achieve the same time if you went out there and did it for real?

bobo696

philthy3 wrote:

Not sure how catalyst is a pain? If you program your own catalyst session, you can set the gradient, interval and distance for each section. So you can easily program a warm up for the required time or distance, then set each interval as you wish something like 10 min warm up 0%, 3 min 2%, 1 min 0%, 3 min 3%, 1 min 0%, 3 min 4%, 1 min 0% etc etc to whatever time span you want.

It's annoying because eache time I want to have a trainer road session I would have to launch a catalyst session at a certain slope before. Not the end of the world, but I would have thought there would have been an option to set a higher slope by default.

davidof

With these trainers how realistic are they in difficulty compared to doing a climb in real life?

For example if you climbed the Alpe d huez in an hour on the trainer would you be expecting to achieve the same time if you went out there and did it for real?

I can't answer for the Tacx Flow but I imagine it would be similar. I have the Tacx Blue Motion and the training software in my signature. On the road I climb at around 1000m/h on 6-10% climbs and am on the same on my roller with simulated speed (speed based on power output and weight).

So pretty close but there are 1000s of variables and there is no way you can reproduce them all.

But I can't find anywhere the option to manually increase the resistance.

I believe you need the Stand Alone T2200 head unit to do this, you can get them on fleabay.

StillGoing

sbbefc wrote:

With these trainers how realistic are they in difficulty compared to doing a climb in real life?

For example if you climbed the Alpe d huez in an hour on the trainer would you be expecting to achieve the same time if you went out there and did it for real?

It's pretty realistic but I wouldn't say it's a 100% accurate representation. For instance, on GPS rides I do, the brake is often automatically applied before a climb catching you out with what is on screen. But it equals out in that sometimes it looks on screen like you have a little more to go before the terrain levels out but the brake releases early. I must emphasise that GPS rides are the only area where this applies and I dare say that if you're fortunate enough to have a PC with the best graphics card possible and best power, it wouldn't be so much of a problem if at all. DVD and Catalyst training the braking is consistent to represent the increase in gradients. It's obviously unrealistic in terms of wobbling about if you were struggling up a 25% plus climb and there's no representation of unevenness in road surface. If you have a Tacx dealer close by, ask them to set up a demo for you. There is a DVD download of the 2013 Alp D'Huez 30 mile TT course that is worth doing.

davidof

> there's no representation of unevenness in road surface

In the RLV data files Tacx have a rolling resistance variable but not sure how this is used. At the end of one of the Ventoux DVDs the rolling resistance goes from 4% to 25% - maybe they went off road for a bit :-).

tpbiker

Also thinking of getting this but a bit confused by what I need to purchase.

Am I right in thinking all I need is the I Flow trainer (400 quid ish), and a selection of the DVDs to be on my way? or do I need various licences, add ons etc. Whats the difference between this one and the 1k version (other than the freewheel option)?

Not planning to race online, all I'm looking to do is put in some more interesting miles on the turbo by simulating some of the climbs I am training for next year.

thanks all

StillGoing

Depends what you want to do with it. Foremost, you need a Windows PC capable of handling the graphics and Wifi connection. Without that you may as well look at alternatives as you won't get the full benefit of the Tacx trainers. You can pick up the i-Flow for a little over £300 if you shop around. For that you get the turbo, the control unit and leads to connect to the PC, the cadence and speed sensor, and the steerer mechanism.

The trainer comes with a Basic software licence, but I seriously recommend getting both the Advanced and Goggle Earth licences to get the most out of the device. You'll need a compatible HRM and at the moment Garmin ones don't work with mine. Luckily I have an old Polar one that does. DVD downloads from Tacx are as little as 10 Euros but DVDs themselves are quite a bit more expensive. The DVD rides give a good representation of what to expect in my opinion. Just don't make the gaff a friend did when trying mine, in thinking that the harder he pedalled, the chance he could overtake the car in the DVD. Took him a while to understand that image just speeds up.

sbbefc

Could you just set up the turbo for Ventoux without the video? therefore negating the need for a high end PC?

brettjmcc

So I have had a Fortius previously, which allowed for the freewheel and now have a Bushido. Here's my tuppence

I've opted for the Bushido now for a few reasons.

I constantly have to setup and break down the turbo, so having to always fire up the laptop with the Fortius was a PITA (this is the same on Genius). The ability to work off either head unit or conenct to the laptop and TTS when I want is a plus. There aren't any wires on the Bushido which makes it easier with the kids and also setting up when I take it to club turbo, and if I really wanted to I could take it to warm up for a TT.

The freewheel on the Fortius wasn't really a frewheel, it was really a 'help wheel'. As soon as the unit detects no cadence then it would pause everything, so you couldn't freewheel (why would you want to on a turbo anyway).

I sold my Fortius to a friend who has it permanently setup and he loves it. It is still a good unit but requires to be just left as it is rather than being put away all the time.

@bobo696 The Flow should have it's own head unit where you increase slope/resistance. You shouldn't have to link into TTS, unless you have an i-Flow. I would personally have a look at the unit if you are top gearing it on 0 resistance.

tpbiker

Thanks

Is much calibration required. I don't have a powermeter for example. My current turbo has a powermeter built in, and its next to useless so how accurate is the i flow? General consensus is that the videos give an accurate idea of how much effort is required in real life to get up a hill, but would this be as accurate without any calibration?

brettjmcc

tpbiker wrote:

My current turbo has a powermeter built in, and its next to useless so how accurate is the i flow? General consensus is that the videos give an accurate idea of how much effort is required in real life to get up a hill, but would this be as accurate without any calibration?

Effort on the hills is pretty good, but you at times have to tweak your personal settings etc

On the power meter, I still argue that it is the datum point that matters. If you were switching off the turbo to a biek with a power meter then you need to understand the delta between the two. However, if you are just looking at the readout on the turbo, then it is that datum point that you need to measure against over time, unless you belive there is variability in the readout? Please describe useless...

tpbiker

Basically the gear I'm in massively affects the power output reading, more so that the effort I'm perceiving to put in. Ie in some gears its impossible to go over say 300 watts, but then I move into a smaller cog and by using what seams like no real extra effort I'm suddenly up to 320 watts. Likewise if I was to hammer away in the small ring power is much lower despite effort feeling similar.

Its an Elite trainer, and if I'm honest I think the power readout is a bit of a gimic. Total agree that as long as the readouts are consistent against themselves then its a useful tool, but it doesn't feel that it is.

ta

StillGoing

Certainly the Tacx i-Flow gives you the option to increase or decrease the power by +/- 100%. I just leave it at 100% so that readings are consistent. The Flow/i-Flow differ only in which head unit the turbo comes with. The Flow can be upgraded to i-Flow by changing the head unit.

brettjmcc

OK, so some thing sto think about to elimate any variables.

What tyre are you running? Normal road or specialist turbo? Specialist turbo can harden/shine if you have had them for a while. I had this with my Tacx trainer tyre and I now just use last seasons tyres.

Also consider the pressures. I run a but 7PSI on my road tyres, but 6-6.5 on my turbo

Have you checked the pressure the roller puts on the tyre as well when you lock it on?

Finally, where are you? If you are near me, you are more than welcome to a/ try my Bushido or b/ hook up my TT bike with it's wired PT to calibrate

tpbiker

Thanks for the offer, but I live in Edinburgh!

Normal tyre, usually at 100 psi. You don't lock it on to the trainer like a Tacx, its your weight that pushes it onto the tyre, thus out of the saddle climbing doesn't really work.

Thinking of going with the I flow, its the only way I can see myself putting in the miles on a turbo prior to my trip out to the alps next year. Will need to check my PC is up to it, but hopefully it will be.

Thanks again