There are no significant facts about human beings

pinno

Co-operation is different from symbiosis. Do you mean 'interdependant' ?

team47b

more interconnected than interdependent as this implies dependency, systems exist irrespective of willing co-operation or mutual benefit.

Take humans out of the equation and it all seems obvious, just that bl00dy ego gettin' in the way

Mikey23

@p.. Evolved to the point where we are isolated from our dependence on the planet and its resources... Yes I agree
Science as a fashionable substitute for religion... Yes
Failure to agree ultimately leads to destruction... I presume you mean in the context of misuse of the earths resources?

Ego though... I'm not sure how as sentient beings we can separate this out. In my imagination I am all that exists and I am at the centre of the universe however big that might be. Surely ego is also compassion, empathy, altruism etc

Mikey23

And another thought ... Are there things that we can collectively agree on?

meursault

pinarello001 wrote:

The problem with humans is that we have 'evolved' to the point that we do not see clearly the co-operation that exists to support us. We no longer see the link between production of food and eating. We have too much leisure time and we pontificate. We do not see clearly our complete and utter reliance on natural resources for our survival.
It has come to the point in human evolution that ideas of self and macro ideas of the universe have become the new form of worship:


There are so many belief systems and there is so much self interest that I feel we no longer have the collective capacity to agree. This inherent disagreement will eventually lead to our destruction. So whilst we pontificate on issues of 'self', 'ego', 'consciousness' and the meaning of everything, we are neglecting to address the real problems that we have created by evolving into what we are.

Assuming you are human, it appears you have seen clearly the relationship between the links. So it looks like we can see the problem, but are not doing enough to resolve it. I think we can resolve the problems, once we are clear what they are.

Too much leisure time? The stats would say otherwise. If we really had more leisure time, and more time to contemplate we would have more ideas to solve the problems. Workers of the world, unite and reduce working hours!

pinno

meursault wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

The problem with humans...blah blah

There are so...blah blah

Too much leisure time? The stats would say otherwise. If we really had more leisure time, and more time to contemplate we would have more ideas to solve the problems. Workers of the world, unite and reduce working hours!

Therein lies the problem. The Greeks had lots of leisure time and so we had all the plays, philosophers and 'thinking'. This was aided by the fact that they had slavery.
In our modern existence we have slavery in the form of low paid work in the east. Its is worse than slavery because by virtue of the fact that they are paid, the employers can relinquish responsibility for feeding, clothing and housing them.
In the Developed world, we have free time. It is what we do with it that is flawed - tryping shyte on forums for example. We do have that free time for the collective but we tend not to use that free time constructively.

Mikey23

Ok, so what should be doing instead of endlessly and idly typing shyte on forums such as this then? What is going to make a difference?

pinno

Mikey23 wrote:

Ok, so what should be doing instead of endlessly and idly typing shyte on forums such as this then? What is going to make a difference?

Greed and materialism is the new god, the new raison d'etre. Over half the world's population is struggling to eat, the remainder live in relative luxury and are not prepared to make sacrifices to that lifestyle and the modus operandi of materialism and want so that an equilibrium between resource consumption and demand can be found.

I think that global circumstances will force the change upon us. Whether it is resource shortfalls or environmental change or both. I do not have enough faith in humanity to fully anticipate and comprehend future challenges.

Mikey23

Agreed and agreed and agreed. You should have been at my small group meeting on Wednesday night as this was pretty much the focus of the discussion!

One needs to have a healthy concern about what is happening In the world and to stand up for what you believe to be right even though you are swimming against the tide. All we can hope to do is make a difference where and when we can. When enough people are prepared to make a difference then things will change. Ancient saying... How do you eat an elephant. Answer... One mouthful at a time

Mikey23

For instance... Loneliness amongst the elderly is epidemic. Solution, 'adopt' a pensioner, spend a few minutes chatting and listening and prepare to be amazed. Encourage others to do the same. Simples...

ballysmate

Mikey23 wrote:

For instance... Loneliness amongst the elderly is epidemic. Solution, 'adopt' a pensioner, spend a few minutes chatting and listening and prepare to be amazed. Encourage others to do the same. Simples...

So Mikey, tell me a bit about yourself and I'll put the kettle on.

meagain

Mikey23 wrote:

For instance... Loneliness amongst the elderly is epidemic. Solution, 'adopt' a pensioner, spend a few minutes chatting and listening and prepare to be amazed. Encourage others to do the same. Simples...

I find youngsters on here are really quite accepting of this pensioner's ramblings. Adoption? Whomsoever offers the best Xmas prezzie gets me!

Mikey23

@m ... another cantankerous old git then?

@b... i think you would quickly be climbing the walls ... or looking for another oap to adopt

meursault

pinarello001 wrote:

meursault wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

The problem with humans...blah blah

There are so...blah blah

Too much leisure time? The stats would say otherwise. If we really had more leisure time, and more time to contemplate we would have more ideas to solve the problems. Workers of the world, unite and reduce working hours!

Therein lies the problem. The Greeks had lots of leisure time and so we had all the plays, philosophers and 'thinking'. This was aided by the fact that they had slavery.
In our modern existence we have slavery in the form of low paid work in the east. Its is worse than slavery because by virtue of the fact that they are paid, the employers can relinquish responsibility for feeding, clothing and housing them.
In the Developed world, we have free time. It is what we do with it that is flawed - tryping shyte on forums for example. We do have that free time for the collective but we tend not to use that free time constructively.

Slavery was progressive in that the division of labour did enable culture and science as you say, but each mode of production must be negated by the next eventually.

Our mode is capitalism, not slavery, and it too is at the end of it's life. It's what comes next we should be preparing for. I may type shyte, but I do it while bored at work, not in my free time.

pinno

We could move on to tonight's subject:

'The commercialisation of fun'.

Mikey23

Where's the fun in that?

pinno

Fun is now contrived. No spontaneity. It has to be bought, paid for.

This, coupled with elf an safety, leaves no freedom for expression.

Mikey23

Unlike in the good old days when we had proper fun and still had change from sixpence ...

Any examples?

pinno

Alton Towers.Theme parks. 'Play areas' in leisure centres. Centre Parcs. A fun day out with the kids is something that ends up being paid for. Bowling Alleys. Novelty.
As opposed to going out in the woods, running around on the beach, going for a hill walk, cycle etc.

Is it just you and me again Crikey ? Where tf is everyone?

Mikey23

Fraid so... Just us again!

Tight wads like me don't buy into that kind of crap anyway. Never been to a theme park. Try working with folks with learning difficulties... You get to do a lot of stuff for free. Like cinema or bowling. Or get concessions for being an OAP. Simple pleasures as you describe are the best anyway. Walking, cycling, beach, woods etc. hanging out with mates. Have membership to a local cinema so get to go to the flicks for about £3. Watch local bands. Am a day member of gym and pool so get to use spa. Even reading a book. Bus pass and train concession. Life is sweet

If people want to buy in to that organised stuff that's their prob

Mikey23

Of course my kids are older so don't have those pressures.

pinno

Mikey23 wrote:

Of course my kids are older so don't have those pressures.

I refuse to bend to the pressures but at the same time. i have to keep them stimulated and occupied.

Fancy an imaginary cyber pint?

meursault

I'll get these. It appears the thread has ended up at the right place, in the pub!

Mikey23

Thanks mate

pinno

Got a bottle opener?

ballysmate

Mikey23 wrote:

Thanks mate

Watch out Mikey, they are trying to ply you with drink to have their wicked way with you.

Mikey23

I can handle it ...

Mikey23

I'm partial to a fursty ferret...

Mikey23

Joining us BM?

Mikey23

Bottle opener is for wimps, I just bite the neck off