MSR 2014 Route

deejay

mike6 wrote:

Always the same story, "Cant have sprinters winning a one day race, change the route" Why? It is not a pan flat route, so If a sprinter can tough it out over the lumpy bits and win without a lead out, why not?

When was the last time someone called for a route to be changed because hard men or climbers were winning it 4 times out of 5?

There is a Pan Flat route that was known as the "Longest Sprint Race" for a great many years and they introduced a few hills near the finish of the Paris-Tours race.
Milan-San Remo is supposed to be a "Monument" race and they have plenty of time to show themselves on the long Flat run to the Turchino climb.
Riders are fitter these days (never mind the PED's) with better and longer training methods and so something needs to be done to bring this race back to being Interesting. Yawn.
The long distance is what made this a monument on bloody awful roads which are now Tarmac.

mike6

deejay wrote:

mike6 wrote:

Always the same story, "Cant have sprinters winning a one day race, change the route" Why? It is not a pan flat route, so If a sprinter can tough it out over the lumpy bits and win without a lead out, why not?

When was the last time someone called for a route to be changed because hard men or climbers were winning it 4 times out of 5?

There is a Pan Flat route that was known as the "Longest Sprint Race" for a great many years and they introduced a few hills near the finish of the Paris-Tours race.
Milan-San Remo is supposed to be a "Monument" race and they have plenty of time to show themselves on the long Flat run to the Turchino climb.
Riders are fitter these days (never mind the PED's) with better and longer training methods and so something needs to be done to bring this race back to being Interesting. Yawn.
The long distance is what made this a monument on bloody awful roads which are now Tarmac.

So you are helping to make my point? The part above in bold.

Again, you are saying its not interesting because a sprinter wins it? Why not? It could be just as boring, not that I believe it is, with a cliff face at the end and a climber jumping with 400 meters to go.

You cant expect the peloton to "Race" for the whole distance, or is that what you expect so you can call it "Interesting" ? :?

deejay

mike6 wrote:

You cant expect the peloton to "Race" for the whole distance, or is that what you expect so you can call it "Interesting" ? :?

Interesting point you make.
I do expect them to have "Tactics" for the whole race and I give you another Flat Cycle Race that I "do" enjoy for most of it's route.
Paris - Roubaix is full of racing and Tatics and you must know what makes it a "Monument" and it ain't hills. :roll:

andyp

Anyone who finds the final hour of Milan-San Remo boring should find another sport to watch.

mike6

deejay wrote:

mike6 wrote:

You cant expect the peloton to "Race" for the whole distance, or is that what you expect so you can call it "Interesting" ? :?

Interesting point you make.
I do expect them to have "Tactics" for the whole race and I give you another Flat Cycle Race that I "do" enjoy for most of it's route.
Paris - Roubaix is full of racing and Tatics and you must know what makes it a "Monument" and it ain't hills. :roll:

Exactly, tactics make the race, any race. I do know what makes a "Monument" Its history. If they keep changing the route they mess with the history. It would be like re routing PR to get rid of the dodgy cobbles.

TheBigBean

The thing I liked about the monuments is that only a truly great rider could win them all, but that good riders would always have a chance in one of them. In particular, MSR remained open to lots of riders. It remains to be seen what effect this change will have, but if it means that riders such as Cavendish, Gerrans and Freire have no chance of winning any monument, then cycling is worse for it.

deejay

mike6 wrote:

deejay wrote:

I do expect them to have "Tactics" for the whole race and I give you another Flat Cycle Race that I "do" enjoy for most of it's route.
Paris - Roubaix is full of racing and Tatics and you must know what makes it a "Monument" and it ain't hills. :roll:

Exactly, tactics make the race, any race. I do know what makes a "Monument" Its history. If they keep changing the route they mess with the history. It would be like re routing PR to get rid of the dodgy cobbles.

Flat roads on "Tarmac" to give a lot of riders a sprint for a finish do not make a monument, no matter what amount of Km's have been covered.

deejay wrote:

The long distance is what made this a monument on bloody awful roads which are now Tarmac.

The early MSR race was very long and the condition of the roads made the difference to riders who could win.
Today's fast roads and Super Light weight bikes gave us the All conquering Deutsche Telecom PED Team that could get many riders in place on the flat MSR Finish that has now become a Sprinters "Team" Finish.
Gone are the usual days that riders got off the Pogio as Solo's, doubles or in a very small group to contest the win.

That's what the organisers want and I agree with them.

rick_chasey

.

deejay wrote:

Gone are the usual days that riders got off the Pogio as Solo's, doubles or in a very small group to contest the win.

Apart from the last 3 years...

mike6

Rick Chasey wrote:

.

deejay wrote:

Gone are the usual days that riders got off the Pogio as Solo's, doubles or in a very small group to contest the win.

Apart from the last 3 years...

Quite, took the words out of my mouth.

deejay

Rick Chasey wrote:

Apart from the last 3 years...

mike6 wrote:

Quite, took the words out of my mouth.

You are right gentlemen and I got carried away with my permanent disgust of the "PED" Deutsche Telekom Team and the way they turned MSR into a Team Sprint.
Why even Big Mario won it, were he would often ride straight down the main road without doing the Poggio.

I must admit that I havn't paid much attention to MSR in the last three years due to extenuating circumstances (medical) and my reduced interest in the race. I go to De Panne to see Bunch sprinting.
I have now seen the three on youtube and agree, that that is what makes MSR a monument especially this year's Snow.
Maybe just maybe the Peloton is getting cleaner.
Thanks for your comments, I've enjoyed watching the races again and hope to see the 2014 edition.

Yellow Peril

MSR is a great racr. This year's turned out to be a real hardman's edition with the added weather factor, one of the races of the year for me and holds the record for my personal post count. It has been slagged for being a sprinter's race but as has been mentioned the last three years has all about being in the right place to make the selection on the Poggio.

I've no problem with experiment in courses let's see. I think they are re-tweeking Flanders again after this year's edition aren't they?

mike6

Yellow Peril wrote:

MSR is a great racr. This year's turned out to be a real hardman's edition with the added weather factor, one of the races of the year for me and holds the record for my personal post count. It has been slagged for being a sprinter's race but as has been mentioned the last three years has all about being in the right place to make the selection on the Poggio.

I've no problem with experiment in courses let's see. I think they are re-tweeking Flanders again after this year's edition aren't they?

Did the Belgians not change a route a few yeas ago because a couple of the Murs were being resurfaced or some such? Could be the same again. :?:

deejay

Yellow Peril wrote:

I've no problem with experiment in courses let's see. I think they are re-tweeking Flanders again after this year's edition aren't they?

When I went to Flanders some years ago the Finish was in Gent. :!:
The only "Berg" I remember is "Old Kwarmont" and mud elsewhere.

ddraver

mike6 wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

MSR is a great racr. This year's turned out to be a real hardman's edition with the added weather factor, one of the races of the year for me and holds the record for my personal post count. It has been slagged for being a sprinter's race but as has been mentioned the last three years has all about being in the right place to make the selection on the Poggio.

I've no problem with experiment in courses let's see. I think they are re-tweeking Flanders again after this year's edition aren't they?

Did the Belgians not change a route a few yeas ago because a couple of the Murs were being resurfaced or some such? Could be the same again. :?:

They change it all the time, it's nothing special. The uproar last time did somewhat ignore the realities of the past...

FJS

ddraver wrote:

They change it all the time, it's nothing special. The uproar last time did somewhat ignore the realities of the past...

OK, it changes all the time, but the 2011 change was a bit more significant then 'nothing special'. Meerbeke had been the finish with de Muur as decisive climb for almost 40 years...

FJS

deejay wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

I've no problem with experiment in courses let's see. I think they are re-tweeking Flanders again after this year's edition aren't they?

When I went to Flanders some years ago the Finish was in Gent. :!:
The only "Berg" I remember is "Old Kwarmont" and mud elsewhere.

In Gent? That must have been before the 70s. Sure you weren't visiting the Omloop Het Volk?

Richmond Racer

FJS wrote:

deejay wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

I've no problem with experiment in courses let's see. I think they are re-tweeking Flanders again after this year's edition aren't they?

When I went to Flanders some years ago the Finish was in Gent. :!:
The only "Berg" I remember is "Old Kwarmont" and mud elsewhere.

In Gent? That must have been before the 70s. Sure you weren't visiting the Omloop Het Volk?

FJS, we've established that deejay's been around long enough to have been offered a licorice allsort by Beryl

deejay

Richmond Racer wrote:

FJS, we've established that deejay's been around long enough to have been offered a licorice allsort by Beryl

And I took it as she passed me in a Southend Road TT.

Now was it Silver City Ferry or this one with a "Mini" going to RVV. ??
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wenpang38/5243212449/"]

deejay

ddraver wrote:

They change it all the time, it's nothing special. The uproar last time did somewhat ignore the realities of the past...

The uproar was also that they put it on a Finish Circuit and next year the circuit has been withdrawn.
The ENECO has a contract with Geraadsbergen to climb the Muur for three years, I think it is.

rick_chasey

It shows how far Lombardy has fallenthat the Italians are fiddling around with MSR to engineer an Italian victory.

It's a country that's basically all hills so it's no wonder they don't always appreciate the finer art of the flat race, but engineering a race that is flat enough to really reward tactical riders but still hilly enough to eliminate the weak and open the race up beyond bunch sprinters is really something and I hope this doesn't do away with it.

My gut feeling is that this will just mean we get a selected group of puncheurs of which the one with the fastest finish will win. So Sagan.

I bet Bettini is annoyed they didn't do this for him!

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

I bet Bettini is annoyed they didn't do this for him!

Erm, he won in 2003.

rick_chasey

greasedscotsman wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I bet Bettini is annoyed they didn't do this for him!

Erm, he won in 2003.

He'd have won more often with a route like this, no?

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I bet Bettini is annoyed they didn't do this for him!

Erm, he won in 2003.

He'd have won more often with a route like this, no?

Ahh, right. Gotcha.

greasedscotsman

So who else has a chance with this new route, other than Sagan? What about Boonen. Does it suit him more or less now?

Le Commentateur

The route change perhaps ensures something interesting will happen in the first hour of the TV coverage. Usually you might as well wait until the Cipressa to sit down and watch.

greasedscotsman

Do you think? This year you might haved tuned in before the Cipressa to see who had been dropped on Le Maine. Next year I can't see anything happening until they get to the Cirpressa.

rick_chasey

greasedscotsman wrote:

So who else has a chance with this new route, other than Sagan? What about Boonen. Does it suit him more or less now?

Less. His only good performances and results were bunch finishes.

greasedscotsman

Rick Chasey wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

So who else has a chance with this new route, other than Sagan? What about Boonen. Does it suit him more or less now?

Less. His only good performances and results were bunch finishes.

Yeah? Would a harder route not suit him more?

I dunno, are we just gonna see Sagan, Cancellara and Nibali shoot it out?

FJS

You'd think it makes it a bit more a target for the Ardennes specialists with a sprint, like Gilbert, Gasparotto, Valverde, Gerrans, Chavanel, Van Avermaet perhaps. They're still not steep those hills though, and the finish is flat. Still suits a wide range of riders, just less the pure sprinters like Cav, Petacchi an Cipo

Yellow Peril

It's no bad thing to shake a course up once in a while. I think some of the Ardennes boys may fancy their chances. Here's hoping Dan Martin can pull something out the bag!