Wheels? handbuilt v shimano rs80 c24 v fulcrum racing 3

superbug1980

As the title suggests im looking for some advice on wheels, options as follows;

shimano rs80 c24
fulcrum racing 3
handbuilt h plus son on hope pro 3 hubs

leaning towards the handbuilts but they will probably be heavier than the other two. the wheels are for training/ sportives and will be my only wheels so need to last. roads are generally good around here and im 70kg.

any advice would be appreciated

thanks
sb

maddog 2

there's a thread like this every week. Search on 'RS80' and you'll get all the opinions you could wish for.

styxd

This is such a boring topic.

superbug1980

styxd

its so boring you felt the need to read it and then post! if you have nothing constructive to say then dont bother. surley you must have something better to do with your time? then again judging from your post, probably not.

styxd

superbug1980 wrote:

styxd

its so boring you felt the need to read it and then post!

Yes, it really is that bad.

napoleond

It really had been done to death in this forum.

Do a google search on 'bikeradar rs80 Handbuilt'

gryfon23

Have a look at the Campagnolo offering in the same price bracket. Very good wheels, usually cheaper than fulcrum for the same weight.

sloppyschleckonds

Mavics

superbug1980

which mavics? cosmics?

rickeverett

Campy Zondas ! Fulcrum is the "Shimano Happy side of Campagnolo as Fulcrum is owned by them.

Almost the same as Fulcrum 3 but with different spoke structure.
Seen Shimano 80s with delamination of carbon from the rim.

superbug1980

zondas look good, 1550g is a good weight too. for some reason i was under the impression that they use cup and cone bearings instead of sealed cartridges which i would prefer

tonye_n

styxd wrote:

superbug1980 wrote:

styxd

its so boring you felt the need to read it and then post!

Yes, it really is that bad.

+1.... just cause I too have got nothing better to do this day.

sloppyschleckonds

superbug1980 wrote:

zondas look good, 1550g is a good weight too. for some reason i was under the impression that they use cup and cone bearings instead of sealed cartridges which i would prefer

Not 11 speed compatible either

ugo.santalucia

At your weight you can have the Archetype in 20/24 and be on the ball with the others weight wise, just with a product that can be repaired, if you care at all about these trivialities...

g00se

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

superbug1980 wrote:

zondas look good, 1550g is a good weight too. for some reason i was under the impression that they use cup and cone bearings instead of sealed cartridges which i would prefer

Not 11 speed compatible either

The older Zonda's need a replacement freehub for the new Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassettes (FH-BUU015X1). But the current ones are compatible (need a spacer with the 9 and 10 speed ShimSRAM cassettes). See the tech docs at: http://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/wheels ... tid_10.jsp

They're cup and cone - like the higher end campag wheels.

The Zondas are basically the same as Fulcrum 3s (same factory) - just a different lacing pattern.

focuz

+1 Zondas.

superbug1980

ok some good advice. so if the zondas are the same as the fulcrum 3s does that mean the fulcrums are cup and cone also? they do look pretty much the same the zondas are just cheaper. am still not too sure about the spoke lacing though as ugo says its good if the wheels can be easily repaired if a spoke breaks

ugo, 20/24 archetypes you say, very tempting! will they still be stiff with a low spoke count?

ugo.santalucia

superbug1980 wrote:

ok some good advice. so if the zondas are the same as the fulcrum 3s does that mean the fulcrums are cup and cone also? they do look pretty much the same the zondas are just cheaper. am still not too sure about the spoke lacing though as ugo says its good if the wheels can be easily repaired if a spoke breaks

ugo, 20/24 archetypes you say, very tempting! will they still be stiff with a low spoke count?

Yes, it is a stiff rim... certainly stiffer than all the others in your title... it's normally built at 28 rear for heavier riders and 32 only for riders over 90-100 Kg. The reason we don't like to use 20/24 is often due to the lack of decent hubs in a budget price range... but there are options...

adamfo

superbug1980 wrote:

zondas look good, 1550g is a good weight too. for some reason i was under the impression that they use cup and cone bearings instead of sealed cartridges which i would prefer

What have you got against cup and cone ? Dura Ace bearings are highly rated.

superbug1980

ugo, would the hope pro 3 be one of those options?

adamfo, nothing against that design as such just fancied trying some with cartridge bearings. They strike me as easier to maintain etc, ive never had much luck with the cup and cones. but im sure if looked after properly cup and cones are just as good or better. i suppose it depends on the quality of the bearing/hub not just the type.

g00se

superbug1980 wrote:

ugo, would the hope pro 3 be one of those options?

adamfo, nothing against that design as such just fancied trying some with cartridge bearings. They strike me as easier to maintain etc, ive never had much luck with the cup and cones. but im sure if looked after properly cup and cones are just as good or better. i suppose it depends on the quality of the bearing/hub not just the type.

Yup - the top of the range Campag and Shimano hubs are all still cup and cone. Cartridge bearings you don't maintain - when the fail, you need a bearing press and drifts etc.

gryfon23

All my campag wheels have been completely trouble free, including some 10+ year old neucleons.

I would go handbuilts too though if needs.

superbug1980

still leaning towards the handbuilts especially as ugo thinks they can be built pretty light. i would definately take the campy zonda over the fulcrum as its the same wheel.

zonda is light and looks good but i worry about that spoke lacing

RS80 gets good reviews as an all rounder but not sure about the carbon laminate thing as mentioned earlier in the thread.

hanbuilts would be easier to maintain and replace parts but i dont have any prices at the moment, may work out more expensive to achieve the same weight as the rs80's/zondas

i suppose theres not much in it as an overall wheelset each has plus and minus points. Might have to get some prices for the handbuilts and then compare again.

philbar72

Long term handbuilts would be cheaper because of spares costs. If you Can afford them go dura ace for the hub. Both my main wheels run them and they are very reliable, and spin forever!

cycleclinic

Handbuilts can be built to any weight you like. I have built 32 spoke front and rear wheels that come in at 1500g for a pair. I have alot lighter and heavier to it all depends on what the customer needs.

20 spoke front and 24 spoke rear with Archetype rims and hubs of that drilling had crossed my mind to.
Ufortunatly hubs choices are bit limited to Miche Primato's (cheap, relaible but a bit heavy however 11 speed compatible), Novatec A291/F482's (light but not hubs to go for if this is your only/main wheelset) and DT swiss 240 (expensive and the rear wheel would need race/comp spokes in this drilling with this hub). I am not mentioning Chris King hubs as they cost more than my car is worth. There are some other options too.

A 20F/24R wheelset with Archetype rims would start at 1500g if DT Swiss 240hubs are used but it would be pricey but hey so a dura ace wheels. Using Miche hubs would add about 140g to the build and save alot of money.

If 32 spoke wheels meet your needs then the campagnolo record hub (it can be had with a shimano freehub I have just build with this tonight) are just about perfect in every way.

superbug1980

i quite liked the hope pro 3. says they come with 20/24 drilling here:

http://www.hopetech.com/page.aspx?itemi ... cification

can these be built on archetype rims?

philbar72

yep.

mamba80

Cycle Clinic built my daughter some great race wheels - DA C24 weight but at 1/2 the price and unlike the factory options, i can replace a spoke or re true and rims are readily available.

...but MODs why dont you have a "all things wheels" section? these Q's come up all the time.

blinddrew

mamba80 wrote:

...but MODs why dont you have a "all things wheels" section? these Q's come up all the time.

This would be a very good idea!

Back to the OP, after much umming and ahhing around wheels (and advice from Ugo) I went down the hand-built route via Wheelsmith. Very glad I did. :¬)

superbug1980

looking like its going to be handbuilts then! this opens up another can of worms as there is so many options! i need to speak to some wheelbuilders and get some quotes and advice.

pretty much sure id like 20/24 archetypes with hope pro 3 mono hubs if its a feasible build. dont know if they will be in my budget and also dont know what spokes/nipples to have.

cycleclinic

What is your budget then. Personally I would go for 20H front 24 rear archetype with Miche Primato hubs. these are relatively cheap compared to Pro'3 and while they are not very light they are not very heavy either but they are very durable and well sealed against the wet. Laser spokes for the front will be fine but the rear should have race spokes on the drive side as a bare minimum, laser non drive side should be fine. Alloy nipples will save a few more grams. Such a build would weigh in at 1650g.

Using Hope pro3 hubs will save 80g all at the hubs were you will never notice. The only other benefit of the hope hubs are the INA bearings these will run and run and run. Using hope pro3' though would add over £100 to the build cost though as those don't come cheap. I figure a Pro 3 build would come around £400 may a bit under. A miche build would be alot cheaper but Miche hubs in those drillings are only available from one dealer I know of and another builder one here who has bought a couple of pairs. The u.k distributor does not bother to bring the Miche hubs in drillings lower than 28H and then only as matching hole count pairs.

I do not know if hope has released an shimano 11 speed freehub yet Miche certainly have. Hope hubs have a slightly shorter rear flange seperation than the miche hubs do so the rear wheel will be slightly less stiff, I don't think it will be enough though to cause a problem.

Another rim option are the Kinlin XR-300's in 20H/24H. These rims are so stiff that Laser spokes could be used all round and they are lighter than the Archetype rim. They are cheaper to. There are other rims two but generally for the lighter rims the spoke count will have to upped to 24 fornt and 28 rear. These other options are Velocity Aerohead, DT Swiss RR415 (28H front and rear) DT Swiss RR440 e.t.c. You could have a builds with Laser spokes all round/alloy nipples with these rims from about 1480g-1550g depending on the hubs and rims used. Cheap Novatec hubs are quite light (Pro 3's are no lighter oddly enough) and durable but if you have the money there are always Dura Ace 9000 hubs.

As for spokes DT Swiss Revolutions are the same as sapim Laser and DT Swiss competition are the same as Sapim Race. You may here some recommend Sapim CX-ray spokes. While these are very nice spokes they are no lighter than Sapim Laser, significantly more expensive and the aero benefits are small indeed. They make sense on TT wheels and the like to a point. Some even claim that CX-rays are stiffer than Sapim Laser spokes but anyone with a spoke tension gauge will know a CX-ray spoke deflects more at the same tension than a Laser/rev spoke indicating the reverse is true.

Those are some of my thoughts anyway.