New Trail/AM bike

rockmonkeysc

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Worth checking out the evergreen Marin Mount Vision too. It's always been a devastatingly versatile machine.

Do they still come with a lifetime bearing warranty?
Its a bit more xc than the other bikes suggested.

YeehaaMcgee

Yes, still lifetime warranty on frame and bearings, and not particularly XC-ish, worth checking them out. They're far more planted and capable than most people give them credit for.
The only downside is spindly little Fox32s. I'd rather a 36, even if it was spaced down to 140mm.

sofaboy73

good pointfrom above about heckler / bandit going 650B when it comes to considering self build - you're not going to find any parts cheap / discounted which could quickly eat up the budget depending what you're looking at

ej2320

I'll have a look at Marin

Any others I should try other than that already mentioned?..

My hunch is come September there will be cheap 26" frames going along with cheap parts.. Anyone agree?

Stevolad

What are peoples opinion's of the Orange and GT AM bikes? Not many mentioned in this thread......
I'm in a similar 'state' as the OP in wanting to get a trail / AM bike as my current Giant Anthem is a bit under equipped for the riding I have been doing and plan on doing now I am getting into things.

ej2320

Stevolad

Never ridden them myself but from what I've heard the Orange Five is a steamroller, it's not the most elegant bike nor is it a high tech frame design but it will power through most terrain and can even handel Black runs. It's never going to be as good as a DH bike but is a good fun bike that loves tricky terrain. There will be pedal bob like the SC heckler or Yeti 575 due to the single pivot so a FOX CTD will probably be a good addition

As for GT thier 2013 stuff ain't great but the completely new 2014 design is set to be a winner so look out for reviews

As your in the same boat as me I've been doing some research, as far as I can tell people are jumping on the 650b wagon and leaving 26". So I reckon there will be some good deals to be had soon on 26" Frames and Ex Demos to make way for 650b. There will also be a lot of second hand 26ers with people wanting 650b, so if you're happy with 26... Keep an eye out for deals on frames, demos and parts

YeehaaMcgee

I'm not a fan of Orange, and their massively overpried offerings, but if you can get a GT at a decent price, they're great bikes. A little bit like marmite though, so definitely a try-before-you-buy suspension setup.

(Ignore the above comment about pedal bob, the Orange setup actually works well)

ej2320

Good to hear about the pedal bob not being an issue, as I said I've not ridden it myself but know people that have

Good point about cost, I forgot to mention it. Don't expect good spec for you money with Orange so a clearance or ex demo maybe worthwhile or a custom build, It's the sort of bike that will be much better with the better equipment...
Putting a mid level Rockshox recon on a Five would be far from ideal

pesky_jones

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

I'm not a fan of Orange, and their massively overpried offerings, but if you can get a GT at a decent price, they're great bikes. A little bit like marmite though, so definitely a try-before-you-buy suspension setup.

(Ignore the above comment about pedal bob, the Orange setup actually works well)

What's wrong with Orange?

Nahh i'm just playing.

ej2320

Stevolad

Have you looked at Transition bikes? They're proper fun and reward the rider who pushes hard an the downhill
That's not to say they don't pedal well, cause they do

lostboysaint

ej2320 wrote:

Looks like a nice build, undoubtably good on climbs but how does it manage tricky rocks and blacks?

Can you bud it with a 150mm fork?

No problem at all, why wouldn't it? Don't confuse a long fork with a good handling bike! It's one of the strengths of the design that it's very, very easy to get weight rearward and not feel "arse up". The slightly steeper seat tube angle helps a lot with that. It also means that you can get away without slamming stems or running flat bars and still getting excellent front end bite and feel.

Yes you can.

EDIT: When I was choosing mine I was coming from a Yeti ASR and was convinced that Yeti ARS5 or 575 would be the bike for me, and they were very good. I rode allsorts, Scott Spark, Giant Trance and Reign, Specialized Camber and Stumpy, Orange 5, Ibis Mojo, Turner 5 Spot, Whyte 146 amongst others. The Transition was a clear overall winner. It was that bit "burlier" downhill whilst giving very little up on the climbs, in other words a bit better compromise than the rest. As I said, I've ridden a few things since and it's still in the garage. That tells you a lot.

ej2320

lostboysaint wrote:

ej2320 wrote:

Looks like a nice build, undoubtably good on climbs but how does it manage tricky rocks and blacks?

Can you bud it with a 150mm fork?

No problem at all, why wouldn't it? Don't confuse a long fork with a good handling bike! It's one of the strengths of the design that it's very, very easy to get weight rearward and not feel "ars* up". The slightly steeper seat tube angle helps a lot with that. It also means that you can get away without slamming stems or running flat bars and still getting excellent front end bite and feel.

Yes you can.

Sounds just like a.. Well.. Transition, the fun factor is what they're known for. I just haven't heard much about the Bandit so was curious to hear 1st hand.

They are running out of Mediums but a Large should fit me, Hopefully I can pick up an ex demo with kashmina fox and X9

lostboysaint

Oh, and I've just checked with the distributor and your LBS is correct, although obviously 26" wheels fit into the 650b frame easily.

YeehaaMcgee

Pesky Jones wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

I'm not a fan of Orange, and their massively overpried offerings, but if you can get a GT at a decent price, they're great bikes. A little bit like marmite though, so definitely a try-before-you-buy suspension setup.

(Ignore the above comment about pedal bob, the Orange setup actually works well)

What's wrong with Orange?

Nahh i'm just playing.

It's right there in my 9th and 10th words.

ej2320

Interesting to hear that it beat all those, If I had to pick a bike on looks the Yeti would win but Transition wouldn't be far behind

I can get an Ex demo 575 for £2k full XT and kashmina and an SB66 for £2.5k same build and a ASR 5 for £1.8k again se build, But I really want the bandit... I can't afford the build kit 2 brand new though but I reckon it would be awesome with the new 150mm RS Pikes which will slacken to HA to around 66.5

Edit: HA nearer 67.5/67

YeehaaMcgee

Best bet is to try them out. All things are subjective - see I've tried a few Yeti bikes over the years, and was left thoroughly ambivalent about them.

ej2320

Yeti seen inconsistent in terms of good bikes, the previous 575 carbon rear was a disaster, the SB66 is a great idea but maintainence is a nightmare, Apparently it doesn't suck up big hits well and something with that kind of design is bound to play up

But the ASR 5 seems to be successful

No doubting the beautiful quality and graphic design however, just don't always perform

ej2320

My options are now narrowed down, there's a SC Heckler custom build, Nukeproof custom, Yeti custom and transition custom

Then full build is Lapierre, Giant, Trek or Cube

I will also look out for ex demos and 2nd hand

Any I should rule out or include bearing in mind I'm on a budget of £2500 ish could go a bit over

ej2320

I'm really thinking about a custom build Santa Cruz or Transition, any advice on this?

I would buy the frame from a LBS so I have the support in frame failures and they can help me install headsets and bottom brackets ect...

Would I be able to get good value on components from any website UK or USA ect..?

Would that then be cheaper than a full build Heckler?

Cheers

YeehaaMcgee

Check out the German mail order sites for components, but remember that their brakes are often the other way round, left for front, right for rear.

lawman

As Yeehaa said check the Germans, swapping hoses on shimano brakes is dead easy and doesn't require bleeding if done right. You could probably build a bandit or heckler with revelations, a German sourced XT group set and decent wheels on your budget. As I said before the Santa Cruz stock builds are outrageously expensive, I'd steer we'll away and stick to the custom build idea

ej2320

Ahh yea, Forgot about the Germans

I would like to have RockShox Pikes in the build especially as they have 35mm sanctions.


I could cut back on the XT and get SLX with XT rear mech or use some SRAM stuff, The wheels would have to be good as that is not a part I would consider upgrading

I thought I was going mad when I saw a heckler for £3500 with SLX and Recon forks!!

I'm not sure what frame I'd buy, it would be any I can buy from a LBS so SC, Transition, Yeti, Nukeproof

Would the same logic, it's cheaper to custom build, apply to these other brands?

Thanks

YeehaaMcgee

I dunno, you'd have to price it up, you know how much you can get the frame for.

ej2320

Nukeproof is about £1250, Santa Cruz £1350, Transition and Yeti £1500 I think

YeehaaMcgee

So... Price up a self build, and compare. You HAVE all the figures.

lawman

A quick browse and you could get pikes for around £500, £3-500 for a slx or xt group including brakes, £300 for decent wheels like superstar/Stan's and presumably a reverb on top of that you're looking around £1200-1500 for a build kit plus whichever frame you go for. £3K would get you a quality custom build on any of those frames.

Alternatively there's the new whyte g150

http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/product ... tAodiT0AGw

I was a fan of the old 146 and this looks like it could be a great bike and a very good spec for the money.

ej2320

Thank you very much for your help, it seems I can get a good build for £2500-3000 and the Bandit or Heckler would have a Fox CTD rear shock which is nice.

WOW! That Whyte looks brilliant. Great Brakes, good SRAM x9/x7 setup (I currently have a full x9 build) and the Pikes which I think are going to be much better than the Fox offering. Thank you for showing me this, I'd really consider a that Whyte at that price and they are stocked about 40 minutes from me so a demo is possible.

I think you made my mind up, I'm defiantly going to wait for the 2014 bikes and price everything up then but the Whyte may be a winner. Thanks

YeehaaMcgee

FWIW, the Whyte is incredibly similar to the Marin Mount Vision (They've ditched the Attack Trail and Wolf ridge again, and named them all Mount Vision :roll: ).
Although I prefer the feel of Fox damping, I think I'd rather have the big fat stiff stanchions on the Whyte though.
Always wanted a Whyte, I've ridden a few and they're the fine steak, to Marin's flame grilled burgers. Bot great, but one is just a little bit more great

ej2320

I think Eurobike this year will be the decider, Once I know what all the brands are doing I will decide. I could go out and buy now but I may regret it when an awesome bike is revealed. Whyte would edge it for me purely because I can get then locally unlike Marin

lawman

The attack trail is back for 2014, both that and the mount vision are carbon and 650b. They also still use the quad-link 3.0 suspension design whereas whyte are no using an FSR style design. Very different bikes compared to how similar they used to be. I rode a t129 earlier in the year and it felt alright, let down by shot or poor components but the g150 certainly looks good.