Wiggo & Froome relationship..
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Bit grumpy this morning over in NY, Rick?
BTW good job on locking that Sky thread - it has been going nowhere fast for a very long time0 -
I overheard my boss - knows nothing of cycling - mention this, referring to it as 'comedy gold about two days ago.
Twas the straw that broke the camel's back.
It wasn't funny then and it's DEFINITELY not funny now 12 months on.0 -
Best of order now gents. And Rick, as member of t'committee thy should know not to raise voice whilst bingo is being called.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:It wasn't funny then and it's DEFINITELY not funny now 12 months on.
Word.0 -
I still laugh about it now.0
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Still better than standing around looking a wooden spoon!!0
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If we are talking how the public perceive Chris and Brad then it all comes from the media. The first anything is always shouted from the rooftop - A 7 year old knows who Neil Armstrong is but who was the second person to walk on the moon, or third?
The British media are also jingoistic and Brad plays the red, white and blue mod & the boy from Kilburn to endear himself. I heard RIchard Moore on the radio the day after Paris. He said that Froome only identifies himself as 30% British and plays down his nationality so he doesn't "lose" the British public. One red top pointed out that the first time Froome came to the UK was to ride the Tour of Britain in 2007 - irrespective of your personal view of whether Froome is a Brit, with Brad playing a tune the media love and Froome playing it down the public, like RR's taxi driver, will always come down on the side of Brad.0 -
But you're nearly Wiggins neighbour so clearly biased.mr_poll wrote:If we are talking how the public perceive Chris and Brad then it all comes from the media. The first anything is always shouted from the rooftop - A 7 year old knows who Neil Armstrong is but who was the second person to walk on the moon, or third?
The British media are also jingoistic and Brad plays the red, white and blue mod & the boy from Kilburn to endear himself. I heard RIchard Moore on the radio the day after Paris. He said that Froome only identifies himself as 30% British and plays down his nationality so he doesn't "lose" the British public. One red top pointed out that the first time Froome came to the UK was to ride the Tour of Britain in 2007 - irrespective of your personal view of whether Froome is a Brit, with Brad playing a tune the media love and Froome playing it down the public, like RR's taxi driver, will always come down on the side of Brad.
Sorry, it's a pro race thread, rational argument is no longer allowed.
BTW, long time no see, hope you are well.0 -
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Obviously we can't be certain but I have the feeling that an on-form and motivated Bradley Wiggins would have won this year. It's why Froome worked so hard to ensure that Wiggins wasn't in the start list.Salsiccia1 wrote:Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Obviously we can't be certain, but I have the feeling that Froome would have won last year if riding for himself. It's one of the reasons I'm so pleased that he won this year.0 -
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DeadCalm wrote:
Obviously we can't be certain but I have the feeling that an on-form and motivated Bradley Wiggins would have won this year. It's why Froome worked so hard to ensure that Wiggins wasn't in the start list.Salsiccia1 wrote:Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Obviously we can't be certain, but I have the feeling that Froome would have won last year if riding for himself. It's one of the reasons I'm so pleased that he won this year.
Quintana would have ripped Wiggo to bits on the Ventoux and then twice more on the ADH.Specialized Venge S Works
Cannondale Synapse
Enigma Etape
Genesis Flyer Single Speed
Turn the corner, rub my eyes and hope the world will last...0 -
Based on the massive time he'd have gained in the 32Km of flat TTing? He'd have been hammered on this mountainous route.DeadCalm wrote:Obviously we can't be certain but I have the feeling that an on-form and motivated Bradley Wiggins would have won this year. It's why Froome worked so hard to ensure that Wiggins wasn't in the start list.0 -
DeadCalm wrote:
Obviously we can't be certain but I have the feeling that an on-form and motivated Bradley Wiggins would have won this year. It's why Froome worked so hard to ensure that Wiggins wasn't in the start list.Salsiccia1 wrote:Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Obviously we can't be certain, but I have the feeling that Froome would have won last year if riding for himself. It's one of the reasons I'm so pleased that he won this year.
Froome wouldn't have won last year since Wiggins still had plenty left on the climbs, and unlike Froome understood the possibility of ruining his race from expending unnecessary energy.
But It is hard to see how Wiggins would have taken enough time in the TTs to keep him close to Froome
Now if were talking 2012 Wiggins vs. 2013 Froome on a balanced parcours.... now that's a proper GC battle :shock: Just a shame we'll probably never see an in form Wiggo vs in form Froome
That would probably be one of the best GC battles ever.
After thinking about that a bit more.. I'm kind of rooting for Brad to leave and go to Garmin or BMC... Just imagine Wiggins with Evans and Van Garderen leading him out
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mr_poll wrote:If we are talking how the public perceive Chris and Brad then it all comes from the media. The first anything is always shouted from the rooftop - A 7 year old knows who Neil Armstrong is but who was the second person to walk on the moon, or third?
The British media are also jingoistic and Brad plays the red, white and blue mod & the boy from Kilburn to endear himself. I heard RIchard Moore on the radio the day after Paris. He said that Froome only identifies himself as 30% British and plays down his nationality so he doesn't "lose" the British public. One red top pointed out that the first time Froome came to the UK was to ride the Tour of Britain in 2007 - irrespective of your personal view of whether Froome is a Brit, with Brad playing a tune the media love and Froome playing it down the public, like RR's taxi driver, will always come down on the side of Brad.
To be fair Richard Moore is being entirely accurate when saying how Froome views himself. I listened to a SA radio interview with Froome yday and he was stressing how he considers Africa home.0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Froome wouldn't have won last year since Wiggins still had plenty left on the climbs, and unlike Froome understood the possibility of ruining his race from expending unnecessary energy.
A very senior member of the Sky team told a couple of guys I ride with something very similar - that Froome benefitted from riding with Wiggins last year because it forced him to climb in a more measured way - the implication was Froome was too keen to follow every attack or as you say put too much in when here was no need.
We'll never know for sure but to me Wiggins looked pretty much the equal of Froome on the climbs last year - certainly close enough that Froome would never have closed the time gap Wiggins opened up on the flat stage where Froome lost out and the TTs. Equally we don't know for sure Wiggins wouldn't have beaten Froome this year - though like most I'd guess probably not if Wiggins had made the split on the echelon stage and maybe taken a little on the TTs it's not impossible he'd have been able to finish close on the climbs. Contador did blow up on occasion trying to stay with Froome's accelerations whereas Brad normally climbs at his own pace.
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
Tom Butcher wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:A very senior member of the Sky team told a couple of guys I ride with something very similar - that Froome benefitted from riding with Wiggins last year because it forced him to climb in a more measured way - the implication was Froome was too keen to follow every attack or as you say put too much in when here was no need.
This is something I've said a few times about Froome in the past. I don't dislike him or wish anything ill of him. But he has came on leaps and bounce not because of his talent or strengths. Its been the discipline in riding the final climbs for Wiggins that has turned him into the GC rider he is today. The times last season when he rode for himself instead of riding for Wiggans saw him being aggressive and attacking. But you could see it failing also. The vuelta being the prime example. If he measured his riding more he would have perhaps won Sky with a lot more credit to Wiggins then many would expect have aided Froome in a massive way. Without Wiggins Froome may never have been in the positions he found himself in last season to be able to do what he has done this season.0 -
rebs wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:A very senior member of the Sky team told a couple of guys I ride with something very similar - that Froome benefitted from riding with Wiggins last year because it forced him to climb in a more measured way - the implication was Froome was too keen to follow every attack or as you say put too much in when here was no need.
This is something I've said a few times about Froome in the past. I don't dislike him or wish anything ill of him. But he has came on leaps and bounce not because of his talent or strengths. Its been the discipline in riding the final climbs for Wiggins that has turned him into the GC rider he is today. The times last season when he rode for himself instead of riding for Wiggans saw him being aggressive and attacking. But you could see it failing also. The vuelta being the prime example. If he measured his riding more he would have perhaps won Sky with a lot more credit to Wiggins then many would expect have aided Froome in a massive way. Without Wiggins Froome may never have been in the positions he found himself in last season to be able to do what he has done this season.
Which Vuelta are you on about? Froome would probably have won the '11 one were he not riding in support of Wiggins until late on, and he was never going to win last year's with a full on Tour in his legs.0 -
rebs wrote:Tom Butcher wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:A very senior member of the Sky team told a couple of guys I ride with something very similar - that Froome benefitted from riding with Wiggins last year because it forced him to climb in a more measured way - the implication was Froome was too keen to follow every attack or as you say put too much in when here was no need.
This is something I've said a few times about Froome in the past. I don't dislike him or wish anything ill of him. But he has came on leaps and bounce not because of his talent or strengths. Its been the discipline in riding the final climbs for Wiggins that has turned him into the GC rider he is today. The times last season when he rode for himself instead of riding for Wiggans saw him being aggressive and attacking. But you could see it failing also. The vuelta being the prime example. If he measured his riding more he would have perhaps won Sky with a lot more credit to Wiggins then many would expect have aided Froome in a massive way. Without Wiggins Froome may never have been in the positions he found himself in last season to be able to do what he has done this season.
Well we'll never know as wiggins was injured this year ... cough ...0 -
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Missing the Vuelta to prep for the worlds?
When was the last time someone won the worlds who hadn't ridden the Vuelta?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Missing the Vuelta to prep for the worlds?
When was the last time someone won the worlds who hadn't ridden the Vuelta?
Cav, sort of, pulled out really early on, stage 4 or 5 or something.Correlation is not causation.0 -
If we are talking about the time trial in the world championships then i think it is Bert Grabsch in 20080
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Tom Butcher wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Froome wouldn't have won last year since Wiggins still had plenty left on the climbs, and unlike Froome understood the possibility of ruining his race from expending unnecessary energy.
A very senior member of the Sky team told a couple of guys I ride with something very similar - that Froome benefitted from riding with Wiggins last year because it forced him to climb in a more measured way - the implication was Froome was too keen to follow every attack or as you say put too much in when here was no need.
We'll never know for sure but to me Wiggins looked pretty much the equal of Froome on the climbs last year - certainly close enough that Froome would never have closed the time gap Wiggins opened up on the flat stage where Froome lost out and the TTs.
That's what people don't seem to understand. It happened with Porte this year, he dropped Contador And The Gang on the first stage in the Pyrenees and blew up on the second, losing 15 minutes. If Froome had dropped Wiggo last year, he'd most likely have dropped time on other climbs or the final TT.
I like both of them, both deserved their wins and it disappoints me to see so many fans of Froome hating Brad. I hope that BBC article counts as a personal congratulations to Froome - not that we should have known that Brad hadn't personally congratulated Chris, some journalist obviously looking for some juicy gossip by asking that question in the first place. Both have different personalities, although I find Brad to be more honest and speaks how he feels, whereas with Froome I get the impression he's putting on a front for the media to keep them happy.
I'm not sure if they will ride together in a GT again. Wiggo's said he probably won't train for one again, I'm assuming it's because he wants to repay his family for the sacrifices they have made so he could be a GT contender.0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:
Froome wouldn't have won last year since Wiggins still had plenty left on the climbs, and unlike Froome understood the possibility of ruining his race from expending unnecessary energy.
We don't know that. Froome and the team in the main rode to Wiggins' capabilities in the 2012 TdF. The 2012 Tour team was stronger than the 2013 one. Wiggins had a stronger No 2. Sky only lost one rider in the entire 2012 Tour, whereas in 2013 they were almost a man down after stage 1 with G's injury then lost Kiriyenka and EBH. They were never going to be allowed to go head to head but had the roles been reversed and BW been Froome's No 2 in the 2012 Tour I think Froome still would have won. The time loss with the puncture would have been a blow but a more aggressive and less controlled race would have seen him gain time.
As for whether I warm to Froome or Wiggins, I don't have much interest in personalities. Froome's the far more exciting rider and that ticks a major box for me.0 -
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