Wiggo & Froome relationship..
Comments
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Blazing Saddles wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:greeny12 wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:The irony is that despite a bad season to date, and despite Froome winning the Tour, British Joe Public generally seem to love Wiggins and find Froome boring
Can't imagine why...
Well, I'm a Wiggins supporter - which believe me is an emotional rollar-coaster and a half - but, yeah, they aint taking to Froome so much.
Reason I mentioned it is that Wiggins is still the big draw in the team for the Brits.
I'm afraid that British Joe Public don't factor into Team Sky's future plans.Richmond Racer wrote:Just been listening to the latest Rouleur 'cast....mention of Shane Sutton in hotel bar last Sat night after giving a talk in Abergavenny, being highly indiscreet (Shane? never!) and saying that Wiggins will never ride a 'big' race for Sky again...
:shock:
I was there, it being Abergavenny.
Was trying to remember which Forumite was going....were you there when Sutton said this? Owt else said?
EDIT:
And scrub what I wrote about him being indiscrete in the hotel bar - I listened again and it was just 'the Angel Hotel'...0 -
Indeed. I don't know either of them personally, of course, but in terms of their public persona, Wiggins comes across as a complete arse and Froome seems like a decent guy. And a much more exciting rider.Salsiccia1 wrote:greeny12 wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:The irony is that despite a bad season to date, and despite Froome winning the Tour, British Joe Public generally seem to love Wiggins and find Froome boring
Can't imagine why...
It all stems from the repressed British psyche, where they secretly want to fly in the face of convention and admire those who do, and hence transpose their desires onto the famous and successful. Which is why when someone is polite, straight-forward and normal, like Froome, they are 'boring' and when they are outspoken and different, like Wiggins, they are a 'character'.
As for me, I like Froome more than Wiggins.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:
Was trying to remember which Forumite was going....were you there when Sutton said this? Owt else said?
EDIT:
And scrub what I wrote about him being indiscreet in the hotel bar - I listened again and it was just 'the Angel Hotel'...
Yes, it was in the ballroom, I'll have you know!
God, it was sooooo hot.
RR: All I can say in a PF, is.....................no comment.
( and for that, I apologise.)"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
The general public are obviously going to have more of a fondness for Wiggins as he's been entering their consciousness for multiple Olympic cycles. Froome is a name most would not have known until a certain 3rd place round the vicinity of Hampton Court.
I don't care about their personalities providing they aren't truly abhorrent. I watch them ride bikes, as long as they don't support fascism or something, there ain't a whole lot about their personalities that's going to stop me watching them ride. Why does it matter so much to so many of you if they're boring or the life and soul of the party?
Needy, maybe?0 -
morstar, personalities in an athlete do matter to a lot of people in feeling a level of connection - and certainly relative preference to differentiate between athletes - almost irrespective of the athletes talent or achievements
its human nature0 -
As a West Ham fan I can tell you that even the fascism thing is a remarkably easy obstacle to overcome if the entertainment is good enoughmorstar wrote:I don't care about their personalities providing they aren't truly abhorrent. I watch them ride bikes, as long as they don't support fascism or something, there ain't a whole lot about their personalities that's going to stop me watching them ride. Why does it matter so much to so many of you if they're boring or the life and soul of the party?Twitter: @RichN950 -
This is so true. It is completely carved into the British collective psyche to love those who stand out a little from the norm - and if they tell people in authority to f*ck off once in a while (and get away with it) then the nation loves them even more.Salsiccia1 wrote:It all stems from the repressed British psyche, where they secretly want to fly in the face of convention and admire those who do, and hence transpose their desires onto the famous and successful. Which is why when someone is polite, straight-forward and normal, like Froome, they are 'boring' and when they are outspoken and different, like Wiggins, they are a 'character'.
That combined with Sir Brad being one of out greatest ever Olympians (and we love Olympians) means he'd have to sell PEDS to Prince George for anyone to be concerned about his behaviour.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Just been listening to the latest Rouleur 'cast....mention of Shane Sutton in hotel bar last Sat night after giving a talk in Abergavenny, being highly indiscreet (Shane? never!) and saying that Wiggins will never ride a 'big' race for Sky again...
:shock:
As the event was hosted by my club I'll ask around tonight to get the full version!0 -
I do like Wiggins but he is an a***hole, really poor form not congratulating Froome.
I used to think that Wiggins would of most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would of beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would of only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.0 -
Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Obviously we can't be certain, but I have the feeling that Froome would have won last year if riding for himself. It's one of the reasons I'm so pleased that he won this year.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Blazing Saddles wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:
Was trying to remember which Forumite was going....were you there when Sutton said this? Owt else said?
EDIT:
And scrub what I wrote about him being indiscreet in the hotel bar - I listened again and it was just 'the Angel Hotel'...
Yes, it was in the ballroom, I'll have you know!
God, it was sooooo hot.
RR: All I can say in a PF, is.....................no comment.
( and for that, I apologise.)
You bloody tease.... 0 -
Well I xpect BW's nose is out of joint this year as it seems like he is being ignored. All the planets aligned for him last year and he won everything. It'll never happen again (see also P Gilbert).'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
Neil Gaiman0 -
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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Richmond Racer wrote:
Agreed. Well balanced article.0 -
Salsiccia1 wrote:Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Obviously we can't be certain, but I have the feeling that Froome would have won last year if riding for himself. It's one of the reasons I'm so pleased that he won this year.
This is a debate that'll be had for years to come. If Froome had been riding with the same team as Wiggo had? Maybe. If not, and say he'd been up against Wiggo and same team, with him riding with BMC, Garmin, Saxo, Movistar, Rabo - I really dont think so myself. Remember that Froome was being as much protected up the climbs till the final couple of kms as Wiggo himself (in fact, Froome was usually last wheel BEHIND Wiggo).
However, I also think that Froome's stepped up a gear or two last year. Never mind the climbing, he'd never have got to within 12 secs of Tony Martin on a flat TT last year.0 -
RichN95 wrote:
As a West Ham fan I can tell you that even the fascism thing is a remarkably easy obstacle to overcome if the entertainment is good enoughmorstar wrote:I don't care about their personalities providing they aren't truly abhorrent. I watch them ride bikes, as long as they don't support fascism or something, there ain't a whole lot about their personalities that's going to stop me watching them ride. Why does it matter so much to so many of you if they're boring or the life and soul of the party?
If we're talking PDC, i'm sure his current club thinks the entertainment thing is a remarkably easy obstacle to overcome if the fascism is good enough 0 -
I'm yet to get this whole 'Wiggins is a personality' thing ... He has all the charisma of a pro golfer and/or Chris Tarrant ... It's a captive audience desperate for relief from the boredom ...
Froome seems less dull because he tries less hard to seem not so ...0 -
Remember alpe de huez and froome bonking? His reaching for the microphone to radio Porte to slow down. Cast your mind back a year to froome dropping wiggo and needing the team to tell him to stop then a few days later putting him under pressure and gesticulating to him to hurry up?
If I was wiggins I wouldn't be saying anything either - secretly it would pee me off but I would know that fair play he did what he had to do and won a really hard tour. I totally respect what froome did this year but I also wish Porte was as ambitious as him and had embarrassingly tried to tell froome to catch up on a climb so he knew what that felt like.
Porte was a better teammate this year for froome than he was for bradders. But I don't actually think too bad of that as froome for all his politeness has that ambition about him that means he not only attacks when he doesn't have to but meant he was happy to clearly show us all he felt he was being held back by wiggins. Which we will never know on that course whether he could have out enough time into wiggins for the TT. I know some staff at sky, they all song the praises of froome so he does seem like a really good guy behind it all. I still foolishly like wiggo though.0 -
Salsiccia1 wrote:Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Obviously we can't be certain, but I have the feeling that Froome would have won last year if riding for himself. It's one of the reasons I'm so pleased that he won this year.
Same here, Froome more than deserved his win.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:morstar, personalities in an athlete do matter to a lot of people in feeling a level of connection - and certainly relative preference to differentiate between athletes - almost irrespective of the athletes talent or achievements
its human nature
Do they though? I think the personality they show through their performance is what really matters. Take the likes of Nigel Mansell, Steven Gerrard etc. etc. I think we like the idea of sports stars having a personality but it's more a case of when they do it's a nice bonus but if they don't, it doesn't actually matter. Has a huge impact on their ability to work in TV after they've retired but really doesn't matter while they compete.
The thing I most expect of any elite athlete is that they are extremely focused with which will come some quite negative personality traits. I have absolutely no problem with this. Alex Ferguson talks about a dressing room of winners, I somehow doubt that is an environment full of likeable characters for large chunks of time. It's not an environment I could thrive in but I do understand the difference between them and I without it impacting my admiration for their achievements. I think we know BC is a fairly unforgiving environment too.0 -
I don't think the relationship question matters much to be honest. Decisions within Sky will be made based on the numbers which reflect form. Brailsford talks here... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23415146 ... about 'harmonious environments'People talk about having team unity and team harmony. I don't buy that at all. Most of the best teams I've been with, they're not harmonious environments. This is not a harmonious environment. This is a gritty environment where people are pushing really hard. What you need is goal harmony, and there's a big difference between the two. You can't rule anything out. Once you start ruling things out, saying, 'No he can't do this, he can't do that'... We're not in the game of ruling things out, we're in the game 'of ruling things in.
Cycling isn't like sports such as football, rugby or cricket where a player can still achieve moments of great significance when they're not on form. For example, Lionel Messi will still be included in a team even if injured because he still has the ability to make that decisive pass. In cycling, if you haven't got the legs you're not going to make the team, not with Sky anyway. Hence Froome was chosen to lead the team this year despite Wiggo saying he'd like to defend his title. There was clearly little sentimentality from DB when it was time to make a decision. DB strikes me as very pragmatic. They are there to win the tour and the decisions on how they are going to achieve that are based on solid facts collected from the lab and the road. Not very romantic, but there you go. That's the way he does things and it gets results.
Porte will no doubt get his chance if it appears he is a better option to lead the team than Froome or Wiggins, whether he'll have the patience to wait for that chance is another matter.0 -
Porte's getting his first shot as GT leader at next year's Giro. He's happy.0
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Richmond Racer wrote:Porte's getting his first shot as GT leader at next year's Giro. He's happy.
Totally deserves that, hope he gets the team to support him. And the parcours that suits him!It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Froome's coach from an era ago about the win
http://www.cyclingsa.com/Article.aspx?uid=16720 -
iainf72 wrote:
"Is it due to a perceived “plastic Britishness” because of Froome’s African upbringing? Baloney. We don’t cheer less for Samoan-born Manu Tuilagi when he scores a try for England, or for Mo Farah, who lived in Somalia till he was eight."
Well, I think it is at least partly about this. I know nothing about rugby, so can't comment on the first example given there, but Mo Farah lived in this country from the age of eight and has a London accent, whereas I don't think Froome ever lived here and clearly doesn't have an English accent. A more apt comparison would be Greg Rusedski and Tim Henman: people were happy to cheer on Rusedski in the absence of anybody remotely good who was actually British, but once Henman came on the scene Rusedski was totally eclipsed. Imagine if Henman had actually won Wimbledon and then Rusedski had followed it up by winning the following year. Obviously there would have been a lot more fuss made about the first event than the second.
"It’s funny because, in character, Froome is more quintessentially British than Bradley Wiggins. He’s Le Real Gentleman: faultlessly polite, quietly determined, boarding school-educated with a clipped accent and dry sense of humour."
That's a description of a particular subset of British people, rather than a description of what is quintessentially British. Personally I identify far more with Wiggins's "We're just about to draw the raffle" style.0 -
Different mountains - where Wiggo's ability to grind out decent pace works well and allows attacks to be neutralised to an extent. Also you are assuming that Froome was as good in 2012 as he was this year.Walter White wrote:I used to think that Wiggins would have most likely still beaten Froome last year if they were allowed to race but after what we witnessed over the 3 weeks just gone theres no way Wiggins would have beaten him, regardless of Froomes puncture or not, Froome would have only need 2 mountain stages to put enough time into Wiggo to win the race.
Shame we'll never know. Not that it matters really though I guess - both deserved their wins.You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Wiggo is a bit of a personality.
Froome (much as I admire the guy) is a bit of a machine.0 -
Who would have won last year between the two of them is a mute point, firstly because we'll never know, and secondly, it was never Froome's to win. As we have seen this year, you have to earn your tilt at the title. Wiggins was, as in boxing "the contender" last year. Someone else has mentioned that one of Froome's biggest achievements this year was manouvering himself into the number one position at Sky. I tend to agree with this. You will never win the ttile unless you first become a "contender".
It is suggested above the Froome could have won "if he had been riding on his own". No one wins the TdF riding on their own. They win it firstly, by becoming the number one in the team - "the contender" - and then secondly, by delivering in the race.
In terms of likeability, it is clear that Wiggins surfed the wave of Olympic anticiaption last year. He was a hero in waiting. The Olympics matter more than the TdF to vast majority of British people . (This discussion is contextualsied by its "Britishness". Note that Brailsford recognised that funding for BC would be dictated by Olympic gold medals, and it is clear that Sky were backing not just a Pro Race Cyle Team, but a national success story.) So a TdF success on top of a previous bag of Olympic gold, and anticpated success in the soon to come games gave Wiggins a head start in the popularity stakes. In addition to this, like it or not, the people loved Wiggins' quirky "who gives a f..." attitude. Even the mock howls of national outrage as he gives the finger from the car made him more, rather than less popular.
As I travelled back from France this year, I listened to a London radion station. The apparently famous former tennis player, Andrew Castle refered to Froome as "the cyclist nobody has heard of". Whilst it was more than a bit ironic coming from a "nobody former sports star", it does give a marker for the level of public recognition Froome is burdened with. For what it's worth, Froome will not win SPOTY this year! Andy Murray has that in the bag. But, in two or three years time, when Froome has won the TdF for the third or fourth time, and nothing else has caught the public imagination, he'll be up there with Sue and the boy Lineker.
As for Wiggins, as I have argued before, he will stay with Sky. He'll enjoy a good showing in the WTT this year, and one more season, with hopefully another re-invention as the classics man. I'd love to see him have a serious crack at P-R. But none of this matters to the people at large. He has enjoyed 12 years in the public spot light, and unusually for a top sportsman, his most recent years being his best.0 -
gattocattivo wrote:iainf72 wrote:
That's a description of a particular subset of British people, rather than a description of what is quintessentially British. Personally I identify far more with Wiggins's "We're just about to draw the raffle" style.
If one more person references that terrible 'joke' as some kind of chortle award winning stand up routine I might actually explode.
It's a sh!t joke every awkward person makes when being given a mic. The only reason Brits like it so much is they like nothing more than being 'in' on something the rest of the world doesn't understand.0
