The Bedroom Tax

Frank the tank

"Playing the system to your advantage" IF it is merely claiming what you're legally entitled to, is no different to tax avoidance and being wealthy and "playing the system to your advantage".

ballysmate

Frank the tank wrote:

"Playing the system to your advantage" IF it is merely claiming what you're legally entitled to, is no different to tax avoidance and being wealthy and "playing the system to your advantage".

You have a point Frank. I have said earlier that everyone should pay their tax burden and I agree that loopholes should be closed to this end. Can I assume that you would favour a similar overhaul of the benefit system so that it is no longer so easy to milk?

ballysmate

dylanfernley wrote:

the so called bedroom tax-- funny that most under occupied houses have pensioners in them--politically a no go zone-- but the real problem is the chronic shortage of social( affordable) rented accomadation--bout 2million --the same amoiunt that were 'sold' off by the right to rob scheme-- i wonder how many houses you could build for £35 B a year and how much the economy would ignite with most if not all that money spent in the uk ?

Ah the pensioners again. Why do the people, proclaiming social injustice, begrudge the elderly anything, yet are so quick to condone younger people sponging off the system. Perhaps you would prefer that the elderly work until they drop so that the people claiming benefits can continue to enjoy the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed?

Mikey23

Ta mate ... ;-)

dave02

I was reading this post and found it very interzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :twisted:

Frank the tank

Ballysmate wrote:

Frank the tank wrote:

"Playing the system to your advantage" IF it is merely claiming what you're legally entitled to, is no different to tax avoidance and being wealthy and "playing the system to your advantage".

You have a point Frank. I have said earlier that everyone should pay their tax burden and I agree that loopholes should be closed to this end. Can I assume that you would favour a similar overhaul of the benefit system so that it is no longer so easy to milk?

I believe in the welfare state, any of us can fall on hard times.

I don't like people taking the pi55, be they benefit claimants or multi-millionaires. I know some on here have me down as a raving red looney (bothered,not a jot) but I do believe we should all endevour to contribute to the good of society and that means paying your dues and/or not claiming benefits to which you're NOT entitled. However we all know if there is a system some people will "milk" it.

ballysmate

Mikey23 wrote:

Ta mate ... ;-)

No probs. It's my ambition to be old myself one day.

Stevo_666

vitesse169 wrote:

..... still waiting DF.....

It isn't coming because it doesn't exist. He's gone back to making unsubstantiated rants again :roll: If I get some time I'll amuse myself by digging out some facts out and evidence...

Mikey23

Always the difficult bit, finding facts, changing your opinion and admitting that you are wrong. I've just joined the Russell brand fan club!

Stevo_666

dylanfernley wrote:

the so called bedroom tax-- funny that most under occupied houses have pensioners in them--politically a no go zone-- but the real problem is the chronic shortage of social( affordable) rented accomadation--bout 2million --the same amoiunt that were 'sold' off by the right to rob scheme-- i wonder how many houses you could build for £35 B a year and how much the economy would ignite with most if not all that money spent in the uk ?

Let's start shall we? If there was an extra £35bn a year taken in tax it would go to repaying a little bit of the £1.4 trillion national debt pile so lovingly created by the last labour govt. so that's £35 billion less that individuals have to spend/companies have to invest which will not do a lot of good. There comes a point where higher taxes are damaging and we are already there. It reduces incentives to work hard, to invest and drains the spending power of people and companies.

Then there's your 'theory' about the shortage of housing caused by the right to buy scheme. Unless I'm on a very bad acid trip, I'm struggling to see how the right to buy scheme reduce the number of properties available in the UK. Same number of people, each one who bought is one less that needs social housing. How hard do you think about this stuff before you go spouting off?

BillyMansell

Stevo 666 wrote:

Like has been said above, it's not perfect but it's the best we've got. If there were better workable alternatives someone would have thought of it by now and made it work.

Raking over old coals but;

The Trouble With Democracy
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/nov/08/trouble-with-democracy-david-runciman

dylanfernley

Stevo 666 wrote:

dylanfernley wrote:

the so called bedroom tax-- funny that most under occupied houses have pensioners in them--politically a no go zone-- but the real problem is the chronic shortage of social( affordable) rented accomadation--bout 2million --the same amoiunt that were 'sold' off by the right to rob scheme-- i wonder how many houses you could build for £35 B a year and how much the economy would ignite with most if not all that money spent in the uk ?

Let's start shall we? If there was an extra £35bn a year taken in tax it would go to repaying a little bit of the £1.4 trillion national debt pile so lovingly created by the last labour govt. so that's £35 billion less that individuals have to spend/companies have to invest which will not do a lot of good. There comes a point where higher taxes are damaging and we are already there. It reduces incentives to work hard, to invest and drains the spending power of people and companies.

Then there's your 'theory' about the shortage of housing caused by the right to buy scheme. Unless I'm on a very bad acid trip, I'm struggling to see how the right to buy scheme reduce the number of properties available in the UK. Same number of people, each one who bought is one less that needs social housing. How hard do you think about this stuff before you go spouting off?

i think you and your right wing views are clouding any perspective you may thi=nk you have.

I also think that you have no empathy for people who are dis enfranchised.

do you know how many people are in need of housing --?

your economics are that of the libertarian right-- markets solve everything --except when it all goes titz up, then get the state to bale it out--same old same old.......

Mikey23

@bm... Muddling through then is the conclusion?

BillyMansell

Mikey23 wrote:

@bm... Muddling through then is the conclusion?

It looks that way even if it can be inefficient and complacent, stumbling from one crisis to the next interspersed with "we've never had it so good" moments.

Mikey23

@df...
1) no, I don't think the range of political viewpoints in this discussion are exclusively right wing
2) empathy for disenfranchised people is why this thread was started and why it continues
3) http://england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns ... ing_crisis
4) I don't think anyone has said that markets solve everything, they clearly don't. Your radically new perspective and solution is still awaited...

Mikey23

@ bm ... I suppose what the article is saying is that we tend to see democracy like the weather ie very short term, a few good days and a few bad days whereas political systems have to be evaluated over hundreds of years. Is that too simplistic?

Stevo_666

dylanfernley wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

dylanfernley wrote:

the so called bedroom tax-- funny that most under occupied houses have pensioners in them--politically a no go zone-- but the real problem is the chronic shortage of social( affordable) rented accomadation--bout 2million --the same amoiunt that were 'sold' off by the right to rob scheme-- i wonder how many houses you could build for £35 B a year and how much the economy would ignite with most if not all that money spent in the uk ?

Let's start shall we? If there was an extra £35bn a year taken in tax it would go to repaying a little bit of the £1.4 trillion national debt pile so lovingly created by the last labour govt. so that's £35 billion less that individuals have to spend/companies have to invest which will not do a lot of good. There comes a point where higher taxes are damaging and we are already there. It reduces incentives to work hard, to invest and drains the spending power of people and companies.

Then there's your 'theory' about the shortage of housing caused by the right to buy scheme. Unless I'm on a very bad acid trip, I'm struggling to see how the right to buy scheme reduce the number of properties available in the UK. Same number of people, each one who bought is one less that needs social housing. How hard do you think about this stuff before you go spouting off?

i think you and your right wing views are clouding any perspective you may thi=nk you have.

I also think that you have no empathy for people who are dis enfranchised.

do you know how many people are in need of housing --?

your economics are that of the libertarian right-- markets solve everything --except when it all goes titz up, then get the state to bale it out--same old same old.......

You haven't read what's been posted before. More than one person has said on here that capitalism isn't perfect but it's better than the altrnatives. If you think it's that bad, please feel free to move to any of the incredibly successful and wealthy hardline socialist states like (say) Cuba or North Korea. Although you'll find that if you whinge in places like that, you'll probably get executed rather than just being shown up as a bigoted lefty who can't back up any of his views with evidence

You've been asked several times to say how you would do things and you've dodged the question every time. So we can conclude that you haven't got a better alternative, in which case you're just whinging. Go on, prove us wrong...your last chance - please post below how you would run things if you were in charge. I need cheering up, it's been a hard week.