The Bedroom Tax
Comments
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dylanfernley wrote:In norway , its all out in the open.....everyones earning and tax on line for all too see---- would you agree that its a more egalitarian way to see who is getting or not getting their dues ?
For me , this country has massive inequalities of wealth /income-- more like the good ol USA--the worlds biggest debtor, but hey i reckon you must be on da gravy train--enjoy it while you can....
As I said, you will get no argument from me concerning gathering of tax, everyone should pay.
As regards the distribution of wealth, yes there are inequalities, of course there are. That is the way of the world. If you feel so strongly about it, go and find someone less fortunate than yourself and share what you have. Or is it just people with more than you that need to share? That is not a serious suggestion by the way, just a clumsy way of showing that your utopia of wealth equality is nonsense.
Like every good 'right on' socialist, you have to criticise the USA. Tick in the box for that one. You criticise their level of debt, so I assume you would support more stringent measures to bring down our level of debt? Probably not.
Gravy train? No, not me. Very modest income. But what we have, our family have worked for and I take pride in that. There are people on here who may spend more on bikes than I earn, but I don't begrudge them a penny. I don't envy or resent them. I let all the socialists do all the resentment.0 -
there are some proper sanctimonious right wingers on this site--you just carry on with your smug assumptions....0
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As in listening to but not quite being in agreement with your point of view? I would call that debate...0
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Do you want some ketchup with those chips?dylanfernley wrote:there are some proper sanctimonious right wingers on this site--you just carry on with your smug assumptions....
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Mikey, yep sometime you have to look at the facts and adapt what you think. Well its what you and I do anyway...Mikey23 wrote:@stevo... Agreed. I think in sociology, we used to call it 'common sense theory' ie core assumptions which are not based on fact or evidence just what everybody knows to be true. Except that it usually isn't. So someone is peddling this stuff and presumably for their own selfish interests...
That said he was always onto a hiding to nowhere as I'm on home turf with this line of argument
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So most of us if we are honest would say that we have sufficient for our needs and would take pride in the fact that we have earned it, paid taxes on it and deserve it. Not sanctimonious right wingers but the people who largely make up this society. Western capitalism... Not perfect but it's the only system we have and it ain't going to change in our lifetime. So we had better get on with it as best we can and collectively try to make it work...0
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what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...0
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Go on then, prove us wrong and tell us how you would run things if you were in charge. No point whingeing if you haven't got a better alternative.dylanfernley wrote:what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...
We could do with a good laugh."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Plus one!0
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That's the thing, capitalism is IMO a sh1t way of running the system but how and with what do you replace it?Stevo 666 wrote:
Go on then, prove us wrong and tell us how you would run things if you were in charge. No point whingeing if you haven't got a better alternative.dylanfernley wrote:what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...
We could do with a good laugh.
Ideally there would be a system where everyone contributes to the society and we all enjoy a decent standard of living because we're all working for the common good. However that is an IDEAL and not one that would be embraced in REALITY.
Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Like has been said above, it's not perfect but it's the best we've got. If there were better workable alternatives someone would have thought of it by now and made it work.Frank the tank wrote:
That's the thing, capitalism is IMO a sh1t way of running the system but how and with what do you replace it?Stevo 666 wrote:
Go on then, prove us wrong and tell us how you would run things if you were in charge. No point whingeing if you haven't got a better alternative.dylanfernley wrote:what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...
We could do with a good laugh.
Ideally there would be a system where everyone contributes to the society and we all enjoy a decent standard of living because we're all working for the common good. However that is an IDEAL and not one that would be embraced in REALITY."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
a quick tour of the internet... marxism, communism, islamic economic model. plenty seem to be waiting in the wings and ready to try out alternatives when it all goes t*its up0
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None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
dylanfernley wrote:what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...
....still waiting for you to tell us how the current system is fair, that even a few 3rd generation benefit scroungers collecting the workers tax £'s for doing f@ck all is right & proper, let alone those that are 1st gen. We all know people that have chosen benefits as a lifestyle - what do you propose to rectify that ???0 -
dylanfernley wrote:there are some proper sanctimonious right wingers on this site--you just carry on with your smug assumptions....
Aw shucks. Thank you. People say the sweetest things. 0 -
So not only do you presume to know someone on benefits who you know is a scrounger but you presume to know we all know someone on benefits who we know is a scrounger.vitesse169 wrote:dylanfernley wrote:what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...
....still waiting for you to tell us how the current system is fair, that even a few 3rd generation benefit scroungers collecting the workers tax £'s for doing f@ck all is right & proper, let alone those that are 1st gen. We all know people that have chosen benefits as a lifestyle - what do you propose to rectify that ???
The only conclusion to be drawn from such misinformation is that you are Ian Duncan Smith and I claim my £5.
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BillyMansell wrote:
So not only do you presume to know someone on benefits who you know is a scrounger but you presume to know we all know someone on benefits who we know is a scrounger.vitesse169 wrote:dylanfernley wrote:what utter tripe you spout-- western capitalism, the best we got !! fackin ell , you reckon the thing will keep limping along, blind faith in a crisis torn , debt ridden , unstable system that rewards a tiny few of the human race at the expense of the majority. Reminds me of the band on the titanic......playing on while the ship sinks...
....still waiting for you to tell us how the current system is fair, that even a few 3rd generation benefit scroungers collecting the workers tax £'s for doing f@ck all is right & proper, let alone those that are 1st gen. We all know people that have chosen benefits as a lifestyle - what do you propose to rectify that ???
The only conclusion to be drawn from such misinformation is that you are Ian Duncan Smith and I claim my £5.
You are correct Billy, no one can make an accurate statement of what each individual knows. Some people on here do know 1st 2nd and 3rd generation scroungers. I accept that not every claimant is a scrounger and I have stated such. I do however know some who are.
I presume that the all claimants that you are aware of are all frustrated at being unable to find work. That may be your experience, but that is far from universal.0 -
unless you have first hand living experience of blacklisting, unemployment, poverty, benefit cuts, then you really are talking out of your arse.An earlier post alluded to the labour party being 'left wing'--shows how your political compass is skewed.
FWIW-- we live in an epoch of decline for western capitalism, thats the view from big business, a reluctance to invest and a dependance on low wage/low skill economy is only going one way-- sure there are pockets of excellence, but the reliance on 'financial instruments'-- service jobs is an economy built on sand......do remind me what happened with the magicmoney men only a few years ago....its all set to repeat..0 -
^^^^
All agreed.
Question is, what should we do about it?
Seeing the problem is easy. Solving it is the tricky part.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
dylanfernley wrote:unless you have first hand living experience of blacklisting, unemployment, poverty, benefit cuts, then you really are talking out of your ars*.An earlier post alluded to the labour party being 'left wing'--shows how your political compass is skewed.
FWIW-- we live in an epoch of decline for western capitalism, thats the view from big business, a reluctance to invest and a dependance on low wage/low skill economy is only going one way-- sure there are pockets of excellence, but the reliance on 'financial instruments'-- service jobs is an economy built on sand......do remind me what happened with the magicmoney men only a few years ago....its all set to repeat..
Talking out my ar5e eh?Re: Benefits...Again!
by Ballysmate » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:13 pm
It amazes me how people on here don't seem to mind being mugged off. I assume most on here work and pay tax. Those on here who are seeking employment, good luck to you and I hope you get all the support to which you are entitled, both financially and morally. But any who are career scroungers are beneath contempt.
I had a full and frank exchange of views with my brother in law today. He was bemoaning the standard of living of the political classes and the unfairness of the 'bedroom tax'.
I snapped and said that he must be demoralised at where his taxes are being spent, knowing full well that he hasn't paid any for years. I then accused him of not working or looking for work for the last twenty years. He became indignant and protested that it had only been ten years!
During this time, neither he nor his wife have worked. They have three children, the oldest being 21, the youngest 12. His wife claims to be agoraphobic and can't work and therefore they claimed benefits. During this time she drank so much that earlier this year she suffered liver failure and he now claims to have cut his drinking down to 3 or 4 cans a night.
His wife now qualifies for a car on mobility. (Forget for a moment this she agoraphobic) and they are now the proud owners of a 13 plate Honda Civic, which they use to enjoy many a pub lunch.
Makes you proud to go to work and be a taxpayer.
The above is a post from the benefits thread on CS.
I could also cite the wife's sister who works 16 hours a week in a care home. She managed to take herself and her grandson off to Florida for 2 weeks. Her money- she can spend it how she likes. But the majority of her money is courtesy of the State, so forgive me if I find difficulty in accepting this when other full time working families can only dream of affording a holiday.
I work with people who flatly refuse to work more than so many hours because it impinges on their benefits. One such person has just had 2 weeks off because his missus has had a baby. My guess is that this recent happy event will not encourage him to seek more hours.
I make no comment on your circumstances, I have no idea what they are. There are genuine people out there suffering through unemployment, but not every claimant is a victim.0 -
We're still waiting for Dylanfernley to tell us how he would do things better...
Come on Citizen Fernley, we want to know where we've been all been going wrong for so long."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
@df... Worked as a benefit fraud investigator for twenty years ... My individual annual weekly benefit savings target was 500,000 recoverable overpayment 1,000,000 and my prosecution rate averaged 30 pa. All of which was achieved without breaking sweat.
Second part... Totally agree. Like others I would be interested to hear your solution. I suspect that you haven't got one0 -
..... still waiting DF.....0
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Mikey23 wrote:Worked as a benefit fraud investigator for twenty years ... My individual annual weekly benefit savings target was 500,000 recoverable overpayment 1,000,000 and my prosecution rate averaged 30 pa.
Mikey, I'd be interested to know the breakdown of the overpayments; how much was admin error, how much was customer error and how much was genuine fraud.
Historically errors have been included in headline benefit fraud figures both to mask department mistakes and to bolster antipathy to those on benefits, and with IDS showing absolute disregard for the facts I can only imagine such practices persist.
Also, if the departments are employing investigators to recoup a supposed £1bn of overpayments why aren't they also employing investigators to allocate the £17bn of benefits that go unclaimed? (don't worry, that's rhetorical) A £16bn net saving on benefits puts the issue of benefit overpayment into perspective.0 -
benefit fraud is a non event compared to tax avoidance, false economy, white collar crime , however its always easy to demonise those at the bottom,but hey don't let a bit of class prejudice get in your way---0
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Irony.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0
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dylanfernley wrote:benefit fraud is a non event compared to tax avoidance, false economy, white collar crime , however its always easy to demonise those at the bottom,but hey don't let a bit of class prejudice get in your way---
...soooo, the 'non event' of benefit fraud is ok because someone elses crime is deemed worse. Never mind that tax avoidance may be legal under the rules of taxation (though morally wrong) but because a person is poor they are right to commit fraud....?
Please explain that to me...0 -
@bm.. We would never have been allowed to claim admin errors as recoverable overpayment. Everything we claimed was subject to scrutiny and audit. Generally speaking if the system fouls up the the op is not recoverable (at least in my day)
@df... I certainly would not demonise those I came into contact with. A lot of my work was kind of showing people that there is a better way and I used to get quite a lot of satisfaction out of sorting of quite often complex issues. There is a tendency for those who get on benefits to remain on benefits because it's a regular income and all they know and all they have ever known in their lives. About half of all single parent claims were bogus, quite often because of feckless, reckless and irresponsible boyfriends who know exactly how to play the system to their advantage.0 -
the so called bedroom tax-- funny that most under occupied houses have pensioners in them--politically a no go zone-- but the real problem is the chronic shortage of social( affordable) rented accomadation--bout 2million --the same amoiunt that were 'sold' off by the right to rob scheme-- i wonder how many houses you could build for £35 B a year and how much the economy would ignite with most if not all that money spent in the uk ?0
