The Bedroom Tax
Comments
-
Seems like its working...good news, less unemployed.Ballysmate wrote:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Seems like its working...good news, less unemployed.Ballysmate wrote:
Good, scrounging feckers :roll:"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
Claiming that a reduction in the number claiming benefits equals an increase in (living-wage) employment and is a direct result of tightening (a.k.a. ending) benefits is at best disingenuous. If benefit qualification is restricted, then surprise surprise number of recipients falls. That does not equate to more employment, just more hardship.No one notices that nearly 50% of those considered "fit for work" and who appeal do so successfully? (I particularly liked the case of a chap who had been in a semi-vegative state for many years but was declared "fit" - it meant a payment for the private sector provider!)
Pretty much the same as attributing drop in crime to reduction in police numbers - Notts Constabulary quite recently got lowest inspection rating in England, yet crime numbers fall! Of course they do - no one bothers reporting anything less than really serious stuff because there is no point.
And yes lack of housing is the biggest single social danger - except for putting our future energy supply in the hands of the Chinese and French governments. A total abrogation of the functions of a nation state.d.j.
"Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."0 -
If that sh*t paper said the sky is blue I wouldn't believe them.Ballysmate wrote:0 -
@meagain.. I'm agreeing that this is gross representation of statistical evidence as we would expect from the dear old DM but I can't quite see what is actually happening. I don't buy that 10% are no longer in receipt of any benefits just because they have been asked to stump up £15 from the bedroom tax. That makes no sense at all. My experience of the feckless ones is that they would just build up rent arrears until they are in danger of being kicked out and then an arrears order is made from their benefits which will be much further down the line..0
-
IFrank the tank wrote:My late aunt, god rest her never claimed benefits in her life and her husband was always a hard working man. They lived in the same council house from new (3bed-semi) all their lives, she for about 15years after her husbands death. Why should she have been booted out of he HOME because some cnut like IDS gets legislation through parliament?
But if kicking OAP's out of their HOMES is what you want so beit.
There are loads of empty houses in areas of high unemployment (surprise, surprise) why not "relocate" "deport" the less fortunate in society to live in them and create a few ghettos ooop north aye. :roll:0 -
daviesee wrote:
Sound reasoning.Cygnus wrote:If that sh*t paper said the sky is blue I wouldn't believe them.
It is grey as I look out of my window.
It's always grey up there isn't it, lovely warm sunny day darn sarf
"Arran, you are like the Tony Benn of smut. You have never diluted your depravity and always stand by your beliefs. You have my respect sir and your wife my pity"
seanoconn0 -
Yeah. Keeps the congestion down for us hardy souls.arran77 wrote:
And no ridiculous train fares either. None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Shhh, we're talking about Jockolandmatthew h wrote: "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
-
I bet he also promised you that Scotland would win the next World Cup and that you'd spend eternity in paradise if you voted for him.daviesee wrote:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Once he has published his manifesto I will check but I dare say that you are spot on.Stevo 666 wrote:I bet he also promised you that Scotland would win the next World Cup and that you'd spend eternity in paradise if you voted for him.
But you missed out the bit about free whisky.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
In which case I'll vote for him as welldaviesee wrote:
Once he has published his manifesto I will check but I dare say that you are spot on.Stevo 666 wrote:I bet he also promised you that Scotland would win the next World Cup and that you'd spend eternity in paradise if you voted for him.
But you missed out the bit about free whisky.
And I live in Kent. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
daviesee wrote:
Once he has published his manifesto I will check but I dare say that you are spot on.Stevo 666 wrote:I bet he also promised you that Scotland would win the next World Cup and that you'd spend eternity in paradise if you voted for him.
But you missed out the bit about free whisky.
And a working refinery... 0 -
so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations is not a priority for this or any govt--but some poor sod who claims benefits is--divide and rule is the oldest trick in da book--Ballysmate cant see the wood for the trees...
and yeah because my two girls live in two box rooms but are both under sixteen we are deemed to have excess room---unlike that old woman that has multiple houses , has never worked, has servants for her and all her offspring --and gets millions of pounds every year--ever wondered why the germans didnt bomb her big london pad during the war--its an easy target....0 -
dylanfernley wrote:so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations is not a priority for this or any govt--but some poor sod who claims benefits is--divide and rule is the oldest trick in da book--Ballysmate cant see the wood for the trees...
and yeah because my two girls live in two box rooms but are both under sixteen we are deemed to have excess room---unlike that old woman that has multiple houses , has never worked, has servants for her and all her offspring --and gets millions of pounds every year--ever wondered why the germans didnt bomb her big london pad during the war--its an easy target....
You are right, I do have a problem with my eyesight. I can't see how a benefit system, whereby you are better off not working, is just or fair.0 -
Wrong - I have to deal with the Inland Revenue on a regular basis and they are very keen on squeezing corporates for every penny they can - same in every country where the Government has overspent and the shortfall needs to be made up from somewhere. Keeps me in a job though so I can't complain too muchdylanfernley wrote:so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations is not a priority for this or any govt.
BTW - where is your evidence for this £35bn unpaid tax?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Wrong - I have to deal with the Inland Revenue on a regular basis and they are very keen on squeezing corporates for every penny they can - same in every country where the Government has overspent and the shortfall needs to be made up from somewhere. Keeps me in a job though so I can't complain too muchdylanfernley wrote:so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations is not a priority for this or any govt.
BTW - where is your evidence for this £35bn unpaid tax?
err-- its HMRC's own estimate based on 2010 -2011 figures- (34.2
--so i have rounded it up allowing for inflation-- don't forget these are cautious estimates-- tax avoidance, tax evasion, false economy(bogus self employment) black?hidden economy and of course corporate avoidance al la Amazon/ et all-- as you know the ruling class make the 'rules' for the ruling class to benefit from-- 0 -
Link?dylanfernley wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Wrong - I have to deal with the Inland Revenue on a regular basis and they are very keen on squeezing corporates for every penny they can - same in every country where the Government has overspent and the shortfall needs to be made up from somewhere. Keeps me in a job though so I can't complain too muchdylanfernley wrote:so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations is not a priority for this or any govt.
BTW - where is your evidence for this £35bn unpaid tax?
err-- its HMRC's own estimate based on 2010 -2011 figures- (34.2--so i have rounded it up allowing for inflation-- don't forget these are cautious estimates-- tax avoidance, tax evasion, false economy(bogus self employment) black?hidden economy and of course corporate avoidance al la Amazon/ et all-- as you know the ruling class make the 'rules' for the ruling class to benefit from--
You said £35bn unpaid by corporations - what you just listed out was much wider than that. And like I said, my professional experience is that there is a pretty concerted effort to collect more money from corporates.
One other point - avoidance is perfectly legal, so its not 'unpaid', it's 'un-owed'. Completely different from evasion which is illegal and unacceptable.
As for the 'ruling class conspiracy' bit - well believe what you want."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
there is an all party commitee lead by Margaret Hodge, examining this uncollected/avoidedtax at the moment, report in yesterdays press, says that even the tax collectors admit £35B is a low estimate and does not included the amazon, starbucks of this world-- they say that the swiss authorities are being 'slow' in assisting -- but the brutal truth remains --the national debt would not exist if all these rich parasites payed their dues!!! We are all in this together shit, is just that, we're in it, theyre' laughing!
But hey you go on swallowing all their propaganda, i'm sure it makes you feel better...0 -
Well of course Margaret Hodge is famously unbiased when it comes to tax and you can believe everything she saysdylanfernley wrote:there is an all party commitee lead by Margaret Hodge, examining this uncollected/avoidedtax at the moment, report in yesterdays press, says that even the tax collectors admit £35B is a low estimate and does not included the amazon, starbucks of this world-- they say that the swiss authorities are being 'slow' in assisting -- but the brutal truth remains --the national debt would not exist if all these rich parasites payed their dues!!! We are all in this together shoot, is just that, we're in it, theyre' laughing!
But hey you go on swallowing all their propaganda, i'm sure it makes you feel better...
I make my own mind up based on the evidence thanks - I don't take things at face value. You've swallowed a lot of the Hodge type leftiebollox as your bias is clear - you blame the evil rich but a lot of the tax gap is down to simple evasion - black market economy, cash in hand etc etc. Not a sport of multinationals is it?
Here's the HMRC report quoting the £35bn gap.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/tax-gaps/mtg-2013.pdf
Looks like 93% of taxes are paid. Not bad really compared to somewhere like Italy. And lets look at who is going what:
- Largest single group is small businesses - nearly 50% - not big corps or the 'evil rich'
- Avoidance is £4bn out of the £35bn and its legal anyway
- Majority of tax loss is income tax and VAT, not corporation tax.
And the idea that if the rich paid more there'd be no national debt is complete b****cks - the UK national debt is over £1,370bn. The tax gap attributable to the rich and multinationals each year (if you assume that half of all individual avoidance is down to the 'rich' about £11bn). At that rate it would take about 120 years for the people/companies you have a chip on your shoulder about to repay the national debt
You need to look at the facts as they're not in line with your little rant."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
so , you now admit that 35 Billion is not collected-- without the big corporations who pay none-- never mind all the others who exploit a system ,that frankly is set up to be exploited by businesses--those of us who are on PAYE bear the brunt of all taxation--i include national insurance in this , VAt is payed again on your disposable income on many essential items-- so the conclusion is that those who have least pay the most--pro rata--and the reverse is true , those with the most pay the least ...you can interpret whatever way you like , but for me and many millions of ordinary people , this country needs turning on its head-!0
-
dylanfernley wrote:so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations is not a priority for this or any govt--but some poor sod who claims benefits is--divide and rule is the oldest trick in da book--Ballysmate cant see the wood for the trees...
and yeah because my two girls live in two box rooms but are both under sixteen we are deemed to have excess room---unlike that old woman that has multiple houses , has never worked, has servants for her and all her offspring --and gets millions of pounds every year--ever wondered why the germans didnt bomb her big london pad during the war--its an easy target....
Further to my reply, above, I would like to add that I agree that if someone, be it a company or individual, owes tax, then HMRC should persue it with vigour. I have no idea if your figures are accurate, but no matter the true figure, all tax due should be collected.
I posted my views on the misnomer, Bedroom Tax, on page one of this thread and I have not seen a rebuttal of my arguments. The fact that there is unpaid tax is not an argument to sustain the proposition that people in work, should be disadvantaged compared to those in receipt of benefits.0 -
Changing your tune a bit now.dylanfernley wrote:so , you now admit that 35 Billion is not collected-- without the big corporations who pay none-- never mind all the others who exploit a system ,that frankly is set up to be exploited by businesses--those of us who are on PAYE bear the brunt of all taxation--i include national insurance in this , VAt is payed again on your disposable income on many essential items-- so the conclusion is that those who have least pay the most--pro rata--and the reverse is true , those with the most pay the least ...you can interpret whatever way you like , but for me and many millions of ordinary people , this country needs turning on its head-!
dylanfernley wrote: "so the estimated 35 Billion in un paid tax by corporations ..."
You were wrong - fact. It was not £35bn unaid by corporations, go on - admit it.
But don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument :roll:
Let's debunk a few more of your misconceptions.
1. The well off don't pay enough tax
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2107031/UK-Budget-2012-Top-1-earners-contribute-income-tax.html
B****cks - the top 1% pay 30% of all income tax.
2. Large corporations pay no tax - as you said above
http://one-hundred-group.production.investis.com/~/media/Files/O/One-Hundred-Group/Attachments/Documents/2012%20TTC%20survey%20for%20the%20Hundred%20Group.pdf
B****cks - the FTSE 100 group paid £77 billion in total tax contributions in 2012.
Seems like most of your claims are crap so people might justifiably think that your conclusions are as well. The people and companies you say pay nothing actually pay a huge amount of tax. Too much really. Governments need to spend less - simple."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
In norway , its all out in the open.....everyones earning and tax on line for all too see---- would you agree that its a more egalitarian way to see who is getting or not getting their dues ?
For me , this country has massive inequalities of wealth /income-- more like the good ol USA--the worlds biggest debtor, but hey i reckon you must be on da gravy train--enjoy it while you can....0 -
@stevo... Agreed. I think in sociology, we used to call it 'common sense theory' ie core assumptions which are not based on fact or evidence just what everybody knows to be true. Except that it usually isn't. So someone is peddling this stuff and presumably for their own selfish interests...0
