Sky doping chat wrecking Spoliers

disgruntledgoat

I'#m not having it that I'm not knowledgable or don't remember what cycling was like prior to 2010. My favourite rider last won a race in 2006 for chuffs sake.

What irritates me, and it's not just FF, is that I make a concious effort to not indulge in baseless cynicism and others just spout the first peice of semi libellous nonsense that pops into their head. Also, I have no problem with people thinking differently to me, but I do object to being called jingoistic, biased, stupid etc for asking people to discuss them. Especially when, again, I make a concious effort not to stoop to that.

As to Iain's "driven away" comment. Nobody has been driven away, they chose not to post anymore. Nothing is stopping them returning apart from personal taste. People take the internet waaaay too seriously.

LeicesterLad

iainf72 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

If the "troll" is who I'm thinking it is, quite a lot of us have followed Dennis's suggestion and had a beer with him.

Nice sensible guy all told.

Well (and i ve said this many times). Why doesnt he bring that to the keyboard like the rest of us?

Edit - perfectly timed - see above?

I sometimes think you,RR and Mac come across as over zealous bullies. I guess you probably aren't but everyone needs to take a look at themselves from time to time.

Some good and knowledgeable posters have been driven away from here and I can tell you it wasn't by FF.

I don't mind anyone on here really. Aside from Howard, I did not care for him.

Even though I genuinely like and most of the time agree with the posters above - I can see what Iain is getting at here. It's this constant hammering of Frenchie which makes the forum just as boring and irritating as the doping accusations. If you don't like what he has to say just ignore him and leave it at that - he seems to do a pretty good job of that himself where others are concerned. If FF ever got himself on twitter I think you guys would explode!

TheBigBean

Folks, if you would like to ostracise one individual from the classroom, this is entirely possible by using the block feature. If you have this knowledge and elect to complain bitterly than you are guilty of somewhat needless posting and I have little sympathy for you.

mike6

LeicesterLad wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's a shame this month that the discussion and baiting has gone so far that so many threads have been a bit ruined.

Said by the same guy who keeps babbling on and ruin race threads on how he wants doping convicted riders to have career ending crashes. What a joke.

This.

As I said further up - a lot of hypocracy on here. The Sky fans seem to think they have the right to bully everybody else into silence whilst making accusations and sh*t comments about other riders.

Not a Sky fan, a fan of pro racing. Any team that gets a stupid amount of flack, like Sky do, will be discussed in a rational way by me. People only feel they have to defend something when they believe the criticism is grossly unfair.
All we want is a level playing field for all teams, you cant just say, like some on here, Sky bad the rest good.

I think FFs post on here is a bit OTT. If you take a stance, as he has with, who he loves and who he hates, and bang on about it , it is fairly obvious he will have to defend that stance.

Crankbrother

The only time I ever had a problem (when I posted under another name) was when some dude built up and liveried a fake trek and when I questioned his motive all hell broke loose ... A few others joined in the witch hunt against me and i got banned .. the fact he then tried to sell the fake bike for £3k on eBay made my point for me ...

Other than the odd (usually late night ie. after a few beers) sniping on the part of both myself and others it's all just opinion ... and that's kinda the point of a forum ...

Inciting other users to 'block' others is just playground nonsense and should result in a ban for those orchestrating the campaign ...

I go with the theory of you learn more reading what you don't like than reading what you do ...

Macaloon

LeicesterLad wrote:

Even though I genuinely like and most of the time agree with the posters above - I can see what Iain is getting at here. It's this constant hammering of Frenchie which makes the forum just as boring and irritating as the doping accusations. If you don't like what he has to say just ignore him and leave it at that - he seems to do a pretty good job of that himself where others are concerned. If FF ever got himself on twitter I think you guys would explode!

Stage 11 Spoiler thread filled with TT-related nonsense. Then this - straight from The Clinic - True Spirit of Cycling Special. Is this what we should applaud, nod, and ignore?

"frenchfighter wrote:Froome is lucky he lifted the gas to keep a shred of credibility.

As it is he is putting a very bad image out for the sport and ruining cycling fans globally new found belief in clean racing.
I would have felt so sorry for Martin if he hadn`t won a pan flat TT. THere would have been repercussions for Froome.
Froome even had more headwind then him and still placed within 11 secs.
3.5mins from 1st to 2nd
2mins from 9th to 10th.
After 1 MTF and 1 30km TT.
DEUX VITESSES."

disgruntledgoat

Crankbrother wrote:

The only time I ever had a problem (when I posted under another name) was when some dude built up and liveried a fake trek and when I questioned his motive all hell broke loose ... A few others joined in the witch hunt against me and i got banned .. the fact he then tried to sell the fake bike for £3k on eBay made my point for me ...

Other than the odd (usually late night ie. after a few beers) sniping on the part of both myself and others it's all just opinion ... and that's kinda the point of a forum ...

Inciting other users to 'block' others is just playground nonsense and should result in a ban for those orchestrating the campaign ...

I go with the theory of you learn more reading what you don't like than reading what you do ...

This. As to "needless posting" it's all needless posting. The world doesn't need or want any of this. We're all just apes, hooting into the abyss.

LeicesterLad

Macaloon wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Even though I genuinely like and most of the time agree with the posters above - I can see what Iain is getting at here. It's this constant hammering of Frenchie which makes the forum just as boring and irritating as the doping accusations. If you don't like what he has to say just ignore him and leave it at that - he seems to do a pretty good job of that himself where others are concerned. If FF ever got himself on twitter I think you guys would explode!

Stage 11 Spoiler thread filled with TT-related nonsense. Then this - straight from The Clinic - True Spirit of Cycling Special. Is this what we should applaud, nod, and ignore?

"frenchfighter wrote:Froome is lucky he lifted the gas to keep a shred of credibility.

As it is he is putting a very bad image out for the sport and ruining cycling fans globally new found belief in clean racing.
I would have felt so sorry for Martin if he hadn`t won a pan flat TT. THere would have been repercussions for Froome.
Froome even had more headwind then him and still placed within 11 secs.
3.5mins from 1st to 2nd
2mins from 9th to 10th.
After 1 MTF and 1 30km TT.
DEUX VITESSES."

Thing is, if you think it's nonsense then so probably do many others on the forum - Just let it fly and don't rise to it safe in the knowledge that most others are thinking the same things that you are. We all just need to chiiiillllll maaaaannnnnn. 8)

Dorset_Boy

Fernchie's arrogance knows no bounds. Some on here were watching races before he was even thought of I suspect.

A little humility from him, and understanding from him of the trolling nature of his anti-Sky rants and we'd all get along much better. His standard reaction is to block anyone who has the audacity to disagree with him - yet he claims he wants open debate - how ironic?

Maybe he really is a decent person in the flesh, but he's not coming across that way at the moment. I love his photos, and he clearly has a passion for the sport, and i would like that side to be displayed again as it has been in the past.

A little less arrogance, and a lot less trolling will go a long way. IMHO.

Macaloon

LeicesterLad wrote:

Thing is, if you think it's nonsense then so probably do many others on the forum - Just let it fly and don't rise to it safe in the knowledge that most others are thinking the same things that you are. We all just need to chiiiillllll maaaaannnnnn. 8)

That's good sh1t, LL. Peace

bigmat

Macaloon wrote:

LeicesterLad wrote:

Even though I genuinely like and most of the time agree with the posters above - I can see what Iain is getting at here. It's this constant hammering of Frenchie which makes the forum just as boring and irritating as the doping accusations. If you don't like what he has to say just ignore him and leave it at that - he seems to do a pretty good job of that himself where others are concerned. If FF ever got himself on twitter I think you guys would explode!

Stage 11 Spoiler thread filled with TT-related nonsense. Then this - straight from The Clinic - True Spirit of Cycling Special. Is this what we should applaud, nod, and ignore?

"frenchfighter wrote:Froome is lucky he lifted the gas to keep a shred of credibility.

As it is he is putting a very bad image out for the sport and ruining cycling fans globally new found belief in clean racing.
I would have felt so sorry for Martin if he hadn`t won a pan flat TT. THere would have been repercussions for Froome.
Froome even had more headwind then him and still placed within 11 secs.
3.5mins from 1st to 2nd
2mins from 9th to 10th.
After 1 MTF and 1 30km TT.
DEUX VITESSES."

That's the one I was thinking of. Come on Frenchie, that must have been a bit tongue in cheek, with a view to inciting a reaction?! The reaction was at least as ludicrous as the post though.

mfin

ThomThom wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's a shame this month that the discussion and baiting has gone so far that so many threads have been a bit ruined.

Said by the same guy who keeps babbling on and ruin race threads on how he wants doping convicted riders to have career ending crashes. What a joke.

No I don't 'KEEP' saying that, I've said it on ONE thread, there was a few quick posts about what I said and that was it. On another thread it was you who dragged it up again.

That is not 'keeping babbling on' I'm afraid.

mfin

LeicesterLad wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's a shame this month that the discussion and baiting has gone so far that so many threads have been a bit ruined.

Said by the same guy who keeps babbling on and ruin race threads on how he wants doping convicted riders to have career ending crashes. What a joke.

This.

As I said further up - a lot of hypocracy on here. The Sky fans seem to think they have the right to bully everybody else into silence whilst making accusations and sh*t comments about other riders.

Again, see what I wrote about the fact I only wrote this once and someone else dragged it up again once.

That is not babbling on.

A couple of you took issues with what I said, but big deal, it was said, and you had a right to your opinion.

This is not a repeated thing at all.

I expect the reason you're bringing it up is to tar me a bit, I don't mind. I didn't start this thread to tar anyone, I started it cos there is one topic, Sky doping, which is polluting the Spoiler threads more than anything else by vast amounts.

frenchfighter

mfin wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's a shame this month that the discussion and baiting has gone so far that so many threads have been a bit ruined.

Said by the same guy who keeps babbling on and ruin race threads on how he wants doping convicted riders to have career ending crashes. What a joke.

No I don't 'KEEP' saying that, I've said it on ONE thread, there was a few quick posts about what I said and that was it. On another thread it was you who dragged it up again.

That is not keeping babbling on I'm afraid.

You are on block but I saw this post while I was logged off. I logged back on to jog your memory.

You have said what TT is referring to above more than once and have said similar and worse in the past (you were one of the foulest posters in the past I my memory serves me correctly).

mfin wrote:

Anyway lets hope for a good Tour de France, Contador to have a nice crash, get pulled out and then get a positive test.

emadden

Its like Moray Gub has been cloned and mass replicated to produce an army of fanboys

frenchfighter

emadden wrote:

Its like Moray Gub has been cloned and mass replicated to produce an army of fanboys

Sounds about right.

mfin

frenchfighter wrote:

mfin wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

mfin wrote:

It's a shame this month that the discussion and baiting has gone so far that so many threads have been a bit ruined.

Said by the same guy who keeps babbling on and ruin race threads on how he wants doping convicted riders to have career ending crashes. What a joke.

No I don't 'KEEP' saying that, I've said it on ONE thread, there was a few quick posts about what I said and that was it. On another thread it was you who dragged it up again.

That is not keeping babbling on I'm afraid.

You are on block but I saw this post while I was logged off. I logged back on to jog your memory.

You have said what TT is referring to above more than once and have said similar and worse in the past (you were one of the foulest posters in the past I my memory serves me correctly).

mfin wrote:

Anyway lets hope for a good Tour de France, Contador to have a nice crash, get pulled out and then get a positive test.

So you're saying I've said this over and over are you?? Okay you're right and I'm wrong and I've said it loads :roll:

I like the way that you choose to say directly abusive stuff to me... we never had this problem until Cyclismasgate where you didn't choose to just put your hands up and see that it was a bit funny and move on, I even encouraged you to do so in the end, but you didn't.

I wouldn't assume that just because you take odds with how or what people write that they are 'foul' as people, it seems you make this jump. I can assure you I'm about as approachable a chap as you can find and have a good sense of humour.

Get personal if you like, but I'm not doing it with you.

disgruntledgoat

emadden wrote:

Its like Moray Gub has been cloned and mass replicated to produce an army of fanboys

MOray Gub was never a fanboy. He just loved to play devil's advocate.

frenchfighter

mfin wrote:

I like the way that you choose to say directly abusive stuff to me... we never had this problem until Cyclismasgate where you didn't choose to just put your hands up and see that it was a bit funny and move on, I even encouraged you to do so in the end, but you didn't.

I wouldn't assume that just because you take odds with how or what people write that they are 'foul' as people, it seems you make this jump. I can assure you I'm about as approachable a chap as you can find and have a good sense of humour.

Get personal if you like, but I'm not doing it with you.

I haven`t said anything personal. I was clearly referring to what you have written in the past. A comment on your level of abuse you used a fair few times when I read your pots. There is a big difference.

Turfle

When the defence of someone is "he's a nice guy in real life", it means he's a dick on the internet. FF is a petty, mean-spirited, self-aggrandising hypocrite. And worse, despite his arrogance, he doesn't know or understand cycling in the slightest. Just put him on ignore, then whenever someone quotes his posts you'll remember why he's there.

And that's all I know about that. I'm going out.

Coriander

The atmosphere here on Pro Race has become quite vindictive and territorial in the last year or so and I have spent much less time on here as a result.

Yes, FF does polarise opinion, but as Iain says, in real life he's measured and decent. And some people, ddraver, Macaloon and Richmond Racer in particular spring to mind, have, in my opinion, become self-appointed arbiters of what's permitted to be said and not permitted to be said and what are valid or stupid point to make in recent months. And that is what has soured the atmosphere, not FF or other strong minded people.

Why do people feel the need to respond so vituperatively if someone says something they think ill-informed, stupid or just plain obvious? A classic example was the thread started the other day about Andy Schleck's time-trialling inabilities. The OP was a new-ish member, probably doesn't spend most of his day on the site and just started a thread. It just wasn't necessary to go in with a response as publicly mortifying as ddraver's. Just ignore the guy if you think what he's saying is not insightful enough or irritates you. Why does anyone feel the need to be that publicly unpleasant to anyone they've never met?

So, yes, I do advocate the use of blocking people if that will improve the general tone of discussion and conduct on here, though it would all be far better if people could just be decent to one another.

Guys on here who are brilliant and promote discussion and manage to add their own views and challenge others in a polite, interested, non-bludgeoning way are Iain, TWH and Rick. I wish more could be like them.

I realise the response to this will probably be exactly what I've just tried to ask not to happen and is therefore probably my death knell with BR. But so be it.

lostboysaint

Turfle wrote:

When the defence of someone is "he's a nice guy in real life", it means he's a dick on the internet. FF is a petty, mean-spirited, self-aggrandising hypocrite. And worse, despite his arrogance, he doesn't know or understand cycling in the slightest. Just put him on ignore, then whenever someone quotes his posts you'll remember why he's there.

And that's all I know about that. I'm going out.

That.

Paulie W

This thread isn't helping if you ask me!!

thomthom

People are getting personal now. I'm out.

Pathetic.

frenchfighter

It is reassuring to me to read the posts like Coriander`s and Iain`s above because it shows me that there are many people with reasoned heads that can step back, analyse the whole and provide a proper viewpoint, with greater credibility as they have been on the forum for many years. They aren`t the only ones but they are in the minority.

It is also sad that some of these people have been driven away as a result of some posters, many who have only started posting in the last year or so, likely due to Sky increasing the profile of cycling in the UK.

I would love to post more photos like in the past but I just think it`s not really worth it anymore for now. They keep accumulating and there are some really brilliant ones I would like to share. I have been and will continue to take a back seat on this forum with regards racing discussion and spoiler threads. Less is more when it comes to that as is ever more increasingly clear to me, given that the posts I get most interest and respect for are the ones from people who post rarely.

Macaloon

Coriander wrote:

The atmosphere here on Pro Race has become quite vindictive and territorial in the last year or so and I have spent much less time on here as a result.

Yes, FF does polarise opinion, but as Iain says, in real life he's measured and decent. And some people, ddraver, Macaloon and Richmond Racer in particular spring to mind, have, in my opinion, become self-appointed arbiters of what's permitted to be said and not permitted to be said and what are valid or stupid point to make in recent months. And that is what has soured the atmosphere, not FF or other strong minded people.

Not sure I agree with this characterisation, but it's been said enough that I'll zip it. Cheers.

TheBigBean

Good post Coriander. Stay on BR.

I'm going to try to add vituperatively to my vocabulary. I like new words.

emadden

lostboysaint wrote:

Turfle wrote:

When the defence of someone is "he's a nice guy in real life", it means he's a dick on the internet. FF is a petty, mean-spirited, self-aggrandising hypocrite. And worse, despite his arrogance, he doesn't know or understand cycling in the slightest. Just put him on ignore, then whenever someone quotes his posts you'll remember why he's there.

And that's all I know about that. I'm going out.

That.

You guys are acting like children, Stop the personal attacks - this is the freaking internet - its not a life or death thing. Frenchie and everyone else is entitled to their opinion. If you can't handle that, then leave BR.

dish_dash

Relative newbie poster and long-time lurker... Coriander you hit the nail on the head. Agreed.

FF - love the pics. IMO they add as much value as geology, wine and cheese chat.

ddraver

iainf72 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

If the "troll" is who I'm thinking it is, quite a lot of us have followed Dennis's suggestion and had a beer with him.

Nice sensible guy all told.

Well (and i ve said this many times). Why doesnt he bring that to the keyboard like the rest of us?

Edit - perfectly timed - see above?

I sometimes think you,RR and Mac come across as over zealous bullies. I guess you probably aren't but everyone needs to take a look at themselves from time to time.

Some good and knowledgeable posters have been driven away from here and I can tell you it wasn't by FF.

I don't mind anyone on here really. Aside from Howard, I did not care for him.

You ll remember that this has gone on for several years now iain, I repeatedly held out olive branches to Frenchie only to have every single one of them burned. This year he basically told me that it was pointless offering any more, and so yep, since then I ve not been at all shy in pointing out his obvious inconsistencies blatant rudeness and trolling.

He remains the only person on the whole forum that I really dislike (OK Trev, but he was banned so meh...). He needs to realise that this is not his forum and he has no more right to be here or to judge what happens on here than anyone else! I have never (despite what Coriander says) told anyone that they should or should nt post anything. There are several threads on Pg 1 today that I have nt read as i can tell that they don't fire my particular interest.

If however someone posts something that's wrong, ill informed or just plain stupid then I will tell them why they are so. OK so maybe I was a bit over aggressive to the AS TT poster but that is something we ve done to death on here now. Either way, I apologise, it actually turned into an interesting discussion despite it. Plus if someone wants to post some bile about Sky (and it usually is Sky) then they should make sure that it is true (to the best of their knowledge) and has some basis in reality. I'm afraid i won't apologise for asking people to provide evidence for their wild claims, after all, people ask me that every day in my job!