The Tour - stage 13 *spoiler*

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  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    darhlairedlord wrote:
    saw it didn't hear it no speakers on my work pc!

    He was quote on CN (I think) saying he thought it might have been the hardest stage he has ever ridden.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,563
    Macaloon wrote:
    darhlairedlord wrote:
    saw it didn't hear it no speakers on my work pc!

    He was quote on CN (I think) saying he thought it might have been the hardest stage he has ever ridden.

    He could use the ignorance excuse, but I'm sure Highroad said the same in 2009!
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Macaloon wrote:
    darhlairedlord wrote:
    saw it didn't hear it no speakers on my work pc!

    He was quote on CN (I think) saying he thought it might have been the hardest stage he has ever ridden.

    so i prob did'nt see it either, my mistakio
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,643
    Slim Boy Fat wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    What did Rogers say?
    Basically said it wasn't planned and he made the decision in an instant realising that everyone was tired and they just went for it 100%. He also said it had taken a lot out of them but they had to try something and not give up. Great effort by them but I wonder how it will affect them come Sunday. Sky took some hits today but Froome had a relatively easy ride when compared to Contador who gave his all in the last 30 k. It's lit the race back up though so hats off.

    Ta... great on the fly tactical thinking by Rodgers. They further sparked up a race already on fire thanks to Belkin/OPQS and served to further emphasise Sky's relatively weak team. It's already been said, but treat the stages as classics and Sky really struggle...

    GC racing is all about ebs and flows, right? Still a lot to come and today added a good amount of spice...
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Paulie W wrote:
    I personally think they're missing Mick Rogers more.

    Best post in this entire thread. 100% accurate as well. SKY were foolish to let him go.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Going back to the road captain question, an experienced one would have noted the Saxo train forming and piloted Froome to Contador's neighbourhood, deterring the move. (All assuming he had any wing-men left.)
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    tigerben wrote:
    How about tactically weak instead? He should have followed his instinct and gone with the Saxo break rather than hitting the radio and missing the chance. Lack of experience perhaps causing fatal hesitation?

    It demonstrates a lack of confidence and self-belief rather than a lack of experience. His instinct was to go, but doubt cost him.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,643
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    tigerben wrote:
    How about tactically weak instead? He should have followed his instinct and gone with the Saxo break rather than hitting the radio and missing the chance. Lack of experience perhaps causing fatal hesitation?

    It demonstrates a lack of confidence and self-belief rather than a lack of experience. His instinct was to go, but doubt cost him.

    First time riding a GC as leader... and last time he used his instinct the radio told him to get back :wink:
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    tigerben wrote:
    How about tactically weak instead? He should have followed his instinct and gone with the Saxo break rather than hitting the radio and missing the chance. Lack of experience perhaps causing fatal hesitation?

    It demonstrates a lack of confidence and self-belief rather than a lack of experience. His instinct was to go, but doubt cost him.

    You could argue that the smart thing to do was to radio for urgent reinforcements rather than chase Cav in a full sprint.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    Macaloon wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    tigerben wrote:
    How about tactically weak instead? He should have followed his instinct and gone with the Saxo break rather than hitting the radio and missing the chance. Lack of experience perhaps causing fatal hesitation?

    It demonstrates a lack of confidence and self-belief rather than a lack of experience. His instinct was to go, but doubt cost him.

    You could argue that the smart thing to do was to radio for urgent reinforcements rather than chase Cav in a full sprint.
    I agree, the mistake was made well before that by not watching the front of the race carefully enough. What chance did he have of grabbing Cavs wheel to get up there? Cav said he was in full on sprint to get upto them. I reckon if Froome had tried he'd have burnt an awful lot of energy and probably not made it.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,643
    Macaloon wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    tigerben wrote:
    How about tactically weak instead? He should have followed his instinct and gone with the Saxo break rather than hitting the radio and missing the chance. Lack of experience perhaps causing fatal hesitation?

    It demonstrates a lack of confidence and self-belief rather than a lack of experience. His instinct was to go, but doubt cost him.

    You could argue that the smart thing to do was to radio for urgent reinforcements rather than chase Cav in a full sprint.

    That he had to use the radio to call up reinforcements already shows a degree of weakness in the team. And in that wind once you lost the wheel they were gone... see Valverde. If anything the rest of Sky should have been there with him, watching the moves and covering for him (Stannard did work his butt off). It's never been a Sky strong point and even more so today...
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Macaloon wrote:
    You could argue that the smart thing to do was to radio for urgent reinforcements rather than chase Cav in a full sprint.

    He didn't have the time. If Cav had to sprint to get on then there was no way Froome could get anyone else up. He should have just went. Besides, he's not Wiggins, he doesn't need to be surrounded by his Team; which is handy because his Team seem utter crap this year.
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    dish_dash wrote:
    First time riding a GC as leader... and last time he used his instinct the radio told him to get back :wink:

    He should have feigned comms issues and f*cked Brad over. But don't get me started :wink:
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Macaloon wrote:
    Going back to the road captain question, an experienced one would have noted the Saxo train forming and piloted Froome to Contador's neighbourhood, deterring the move. (All assuming he had any wing-men left.)

    Hi (supposed to be working now, but keep coming back to this.......)

    That's an interesting point to try (thank you) to help me get my head around this Road Captain and Team Captain thing. If you'll be even more patient, why aren't Team Captains also Road Captains (since they're good enough to be team captain). What is the division of responsibilities? Let's pretend I'm Contador or Froome, big name top rider. Why do I also have a Road Captain?

    I'm not arguing, I am trying to understand even more; and that's one of the things I love about Pro Cycling, there's always more to learn.

    Thanks in advance. :)
  • TMR
    TMR Posts: 3,986
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Hi (supposed to be working now, but keep coming back to this.......)

    That's an interesting point to try (thank you) to help me get my head around this Road Captain and Team Captain thing. If you'll be even more patient, why aren't Team Captains also Road Captains (since they're good enough to be team captain). What is the division of responsibilities? Let's pretend I'm Contador or Froome, big name top rider. Why do I also have a Road Captain?

    I'm not arguing, I am trying to understand even more; and that's one of the things I love about Pro Cycling, there's always more to learn.

    Thanks in advance. :)

    +1. I approve of this post.
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    dish_dash wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    First time riding a GC as leader... and last time he used his instinct the radio told him to get back :wink:

    This is about Froome, right? IIRC he was leader in last year's Vuelta.

    just checked on Google.
    He was.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Going back to the road captain question, an experienced one would have noted the Saxo train forming and piloted Froome to Contador's neighbourhood, deterring the move. (All assuming he had any wing-men left.)

    Hi (supposed to be working now, but keep coming back to this.......)

    That's an interesting point to try (thank you) to help me get my head around this Road Captain and Team Captain thing. If you'll be even more patient, why aren't Team Captains also Road Captains (since they're good enough to be team captain). What is the division of responsibilities? Let's pretend I'm Contador or Froome, big name top rider. Why do I also have a Road Captain?

    I'm not arguing, I am trying to understand even more; and that's one of the things I love about Pro Cycling, there's always more to learn.

    Thanks in advance. :)

    If you're doing it right it can be a very demanding job: managing a group of 9, deciding when to ride, when not, worrying how to keep leader near the front. You'd rather not burn GC leader's enegry with this stuff leaving him to relax and shelter as much as possible.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    Macaloon wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    tigerben wrote:
    How about tactically weak instead? He should have followed his instinct and gone with the Saxo break rather than hitting the radio and missing the chance. Lack of experience perhaps causing fatal hesitation?

    It demonstrates a lack of confidence and self-belief rather than a lack of experience. His instinct was to go, but doubt cost him.

    You could argue that the smart thing to do was to radio for urgent reinforcements rather than chase Cav in a full sprint.

    Mmmm, Unless he was on there ordering up a Chinese, I'd say that the result suggests otherwise.

    Too far back in that bunch for too long and paid the price. Given his strength, he should have committed.
    He might have saved a few watts today, but his team didn't. All at a cost of 69 seconds.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • adr82
    adr82 Posts: 4,002
    Lichtblick wrote:
    Macaloon wrote:
    Going back to the road captain question, an experienced one would have noted the Saxo train forming and piloted Froome to Contador's neighbourhood, deterring the move. (All assuming he had any wing-men left.)

    Hi (supposed to be working now, but keep coming back to this.......)

    That's an interesting point to try (thank you) to help me get my head around this Road Captain and Team Captain thing. If you'll be even more patient, why aren't Team Captains also Road Captains (since they're good enough to be team captain). What is the division of responsibilities? Let's pretend I'm Contador or Froome, big name top rider. Why do I also have a Road Captain?

    I'm not arguing, I am trying to understand even more; and that's one of the things I love about Pro Cycling, there's always more to learn.

    Thanks in advance. :)
    I think it just wouldn't really make sense for one guy to take all the responsibility. If you're a GC contender or a specialist sprinter for example then you have plenty to worry about already in your particular competition without also trying to keep track of everything else that a road captain might do, particularly organising the team. Also if you're a relatively inexperienced rider then you could obviously benefit from having a road captain with much more experience than you, particularly in GTs.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Mmmm, Unless he was on there ordering up a Chinese, I'd say that the result suggests otherwise.

    Too far back in that bunch for too long and paid the price. Given his strength, he should have committed.
    He might have saved a few watts today, but his team didn't. All at a cost of 69 seconds.

    Cav said he sprinted faster to catch the group than in the final sprint. I just think that Froome tried to catch but fairly quickly concluded it was pointless. He then got on the radio for some team-mates to limit the damage. But I agree the mistake was allowing Saxo the opportunity to pull a surprise attack in the first place.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,643
    Lichtblick wrote:
    dish_dash wrote:
    The Mad Rapper wrote:
    First time riding a GC as leader... and last time he used his instinct the radio told him to get back :wink:

    This is about Froome, right? IIRC he was leader in last year's Vuelta.

    just checked on Google.
    He was.

    Vuelta's not a proper GC though right :wink: I stand corrected. Second time riding a GC as leader, and first time at the big one!
  • Lichtblick
    Lichtblick Posts: 1,434
    Since this appears to be my 1,000th post here, I'd better make it a good one.

    I think that whatever people may or may not think about AC and his team and all back history, he/they did a great job today in enlivening this year's Tour de France. Everyone (yeah, everyone) expected today to be a so-so transition stage across to the mountains. Instead, we had a really gripping race, thanks to AC and Saxo - clearly well planned.

    I've changed my avatar as a salute. :)

    I'm also glad to be tolerated here: the best anyone can hope for on a busy knowledgeable forum like this. Thanks, guys. I take it that my questions aren't that stupid, and that my commentating remarks aren't that stupid either. I take both as a compliment, since I've only been following this terrific sport for 10 years.

    My bike's had a service tune-up, so I'm going out now in what remains of the sunshine. Too many hours at the computer already.

    Cheers - and I say that cheerfully. On with the Tour and more excitement to come!
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    RichN95 wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    Bit of a pointless stage to attack Froome on, they've expended a huge amount of energy and were lucky that they actually gained 70 seconds.
    You've got to hit Froome in his weak spot. On form, I haven't seen him lose a second on a mountain stage for about two years.

    Vuelta last year?
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    Bit of a pointless stage to attack Froome on, they've expended a huge amount of energy and were lucky that they actually gained 70 seconds.
    You've got to hit Froome in his weak spot. On form, I haven't seen him lose a second on a mountain stage for about two years.

    Vuelta last year?

    On form though ?
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,549
    Incidentally, one of the Saxo staff was interviewed on Danish TV. He'd been out scouting the road ahead, 20km out, with a wind measuring device.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    Alan A wrote:
    Flat profile, dead cert bunch sprint sort of day. Cav won fair and square.

    No doping chat.

    35 pages before 6pm

    What does this do to Iain's graphs & pie charts?

    No doping chat????

    Cant have that. What about Saxo having 5 or 6 guys up at the front, on every flat stage, matching the sprint trains, including this one????? :wink:
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    mike6 wrote:
    Alan A wrote:
    Flat profile, dead cert bunch sprint sort of day. Cav won fair and square.

    No doping chat.

    35 pages before 6pm

    What does this do to Iain's graphs & pie charts?

    No doping chat????

    Cant have that. What about Saxo having 5 or 6 guys up at the front, on every flat stage, matching the sprint trains, including this one????? :wink:

    I know it's hard, but try not to ruin the mood.

    There's actually some half decent stuff about race tactics n' all.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • afx237vi
    afx237vi Posts: 12,630
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    Bit of a pointless stage to attack Froome on, they've expended a huge amount of energy and were lucky that they actually gained 70 seconds.
    You've got to hit Froome in his weak spot. On form, I haven't seen him lose a second on a mountain stage for about two years.

    Vuelta last year?

    On form though ?

    Everyone is on form until they start losing time :wink:

    FWIW, I don't think he's as bulletproof as Wiggins was last year, and he might have another stressful day tomorrow, but none of the the main contenders will have enough to match him on the Ventoux.
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    Incidentally, one of the Saxo staff was interviewed on Danish TV. He'd been out scouting the road ahead, 20km out, with a wind measuring device.

    A few of the teams do that - I remember it being mentioned in one of the OGE backstage pass vids on youtube.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    afx237vi wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    afx237vi wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    frisbee wrote:
    Bit of a pointless stage to attack Froome on, they've expended a huge amount of energy and were lucky that they actually gained 70 seconds.
    You've got to hit Froome in his weak spot. On form, I haven't seen him lose a second on a mountain stage for about two years.

    Vuelta last year?

    On form though ?

    Everyone is on form until they start losing time :wink:

    FWIW, I don't think he's as bulletproof as Wiggins was last year, and he might have another stressful day tomorrow, but none of the the main contenders will have enough to match him on the Ventoux.

    Still think that there is a sting in the tail in this race could go to the last Saturday.
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !

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