Training to improve climbing.

tim_wand

At 42 years old and 90kg , I am struggling on climbs.

Since moving 5 years ago from Yorkshire to Nottinghamshire/Lincolnshire borders my ability to climb has just become none existent.

I accept this will never be my strong point, but having got dropped and having to work my way back on recent club runs, its something I really want to improve.

Everything I have read suggest finding a suitable incline and doing the following.

Maximum effort out of the saddle for the first 30 seconds to a minute.

Sit in and spin the majority of the rest

Final maximum effort out the saddle to crest the hill.

Rest and repeat.


I propose trying this on the only local hill of any note around here.

http://app.strava.com/segments/635950


Any better advice or idea of how to improve.

I ve got a Garmin 200 and a separate heart rate monitor, but I think the figures would scare me so I ll probably work on Percieved rate of exertion, although everything feels like 10 at the moment.

Zoomer37

Have to lose weight boss, otherwise just face facts that at 90kg you are always going to struggle when the road go's up.

phreak

If you're 90kg then the easiest way to get better going uphill is to lose weight. I'm 56kg at the moment, so you can imagine I need a fair bit less oomph to go upwards than you do.

For the strength side of things though, I'd try and ride the climbs as you would normally. Not for nothing do Sky try and ride their climbs at a steady tempo. If you're racing then maybe changes in tempo are needed, but it doesn't sound like you are, so improving your tempo riding would seem the best bet.

After all, you're doing the climbs as part of a ride, so you don't want to be so exhausted at the top you need a rest as your companions will be off down the road without you.

imposter2.0

Zoomer37 wrote:

Have to lose weight boss, otherwise just face facts that at 90kg you are always going to struggle when the road go's up.

+1

Unless you are 6ft6 or taller, then you have plenty of scope to lose weight. Apart from that, work on improving your threshold.

JayKosta

I wouldn't worry about standing, stay seated as much as possible and only stand when necessary.
Use a gear that makes you work hard, but which you can still manage while seated.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

styxd

Convert your fat into muscle and you'll be loads stronger on the climbs.

imposter2.0

styxd wrote:

Convert your fat into muscle and you'll be loads stronger on the climbs.

so much wrong with that, I don't even know where to start..

zardoz

Weight loss! If you want to know how much difference it will make here is a quick test. Walk up and down stairs 5 times then do it again only this time with a 15kg back pack on and see the difference.

Grill

Lose the weight and 20-30 reps of that climb a day will go a long way.

tim_wand

Defo got scope to loose some weight, I can drop 5kg then just don't seem to keep it off, think the fact that I loose it fairly rapidly and not steadily suggests I m doing it all wrong.

I used to be 71kg for a long time , then I had a 6 month period in hospital and some pretty shitty medications and I ve just never seemed to get my weight down since.

However that was nearly 20 years ago and I was in the Army at the time, I m a lot less active now , besides the cycling.

Think I should mix it up a bit , and get some more running and swimming in. Didn' t play a season of football last year for about the first time in 30 years and I m sure that didn't help.

Can only get one activity a weekend in or the Mrs W keeps whingeing about quality time.

Climbing has become a bit of a Psychological problem, I tend to anticipate the climb well in advance and start slipping out the back before we even get there.

That's why I think its important to practice what I m no good at, a bit of desensitisation.

styxd

Imposter wrote:

styxd wrote:

Convert your fat into muscle and you'll be loads stronger on the climbs.

so much wrong with that, I don't even know where to start..

ric/rstsport

tim wand wrote:

Defo got scope to loose some weight, I can drop 5kg then just don't seem to keep it off, think the fact that I loose it fairly rapidly and not steadily suggests I m doing it all wrong.

I used to be 71kg for a long time , then I had a 6 month period in hospital and some pretty sh!tty medications and I ve just never seemed to get my weight down since.

However that was nearly 20 years ago and I was in the Army at the time, I m a lot less active now , besides the cycling.

Think I should mix it up a bit , and get some more running and swimming in. Didn' t play a season of football last year for about the first time in 30 years and I m sure that didn't help.

Can only get one activity a weekend in or the Mrs W keeps whingeing about quality time.

Climbing has become a bit of a Psychological problem, I tend to anticipate the climb well in advance and start slipping out the back before we even get there.

That's why I think its important to practice what I m no good at, a bit of desensitisation.

It's not clear: are you saying that you can only train one day a week, or just one weekend day (but you train other days during the week)?

if it's the former then just doing your single ride each week as hill intervals is a waste of time. Even if you train several days per week it *may* not be the best thing to do.

If you need to lose a substantial amount of fat mass then this is where you should be targetting your training. To that end as well as perhaps moderately reducing your calorie intake you also need to maximise the amount of energy you expend.

ric

MattC59

This may not be the most popular solution, due to the current weather, but Sufferfest Angels and Hunted have worked for me.

I'm about 84kg and climbing isn't my strong point, but during the sh1t wether that was our spring, I did 2-3 sessions per week on my turbo, doing the above mentioned videos, and within about 6 weeks noted a considerable improvement in my climbing.

Expect it to hurt though

tim_wand

Problem is a bit of Both. Limited training time, so I tend to go out for as long as I'm allowed at whatever pace I can achieve. Tends to be about 50 miles at around 17.5 mph rate, which according to Garmin burns 3500 cals,

Surely that's got to have an impact on my weight, some weeks I can fit this in 2-3 times and some weeks only the once.

Was thinking it might be more beneficial on the weeks when I have more time to mix in some hill sessions.

Liking Matts Idea about the turbo and Sufferfest but will look at this in the Autumn/Winter months when dark nights mean I can get out before or after work.

The long weekend ride tends to be the Sunday Club run, but this weekend for example I made it because I got up at 6 in the morning to take my little girl 35 miles to grandparents , to get back for a 9am club run, then have to drive another 35 miles to collect her, because the Mrs is working, and if she wasn't working then not unreasonably she d want to spend the day together as a family.

Probably the solution to this is actually riding the clunker towing little one on the Tag a Long, at Mrs W's lets smell the flowers pace.

MattC59

tim wand wrote:

Liking Matts Idea about the turbo and Sufferfest.

Works wonders, just don't buy the jersey until you climb like a mountain goat !! I passed a guy on Sunday who was wearing the jersey and was really struggling up a shallow climb (could have been the heat, to be fair !).

buckles

Hill reps are the way forward

And upward

Frank Wilson

I am also useless on climbs, I weigh in at 12st 6lbs (don't know what that is in kgs as I'm an old bastard) and am 5 10 so don't think i'm overweight.

I can go all day on the flat maintaining a fairly good speed but come to a hill and my legs just go, they just don't want to know, my breathing is allright (despite being a 30 a day man, fags not miles) but the legs are just not willing.

I use to do a lot of running, back in the day when I was on 40 a day, and never had a problem with leg fatigue, can anybody recommend any "off bike" work to strengthen the legs or is it just a matter of keep at it?

imposter2.0

Frank Wilson wrote:

I am also useless on climbs, I weigh in at 12st 6lbs (don't know what that is in kgs as I'm an old bastard) and am 5 10 so don't think i'm overweight.

I can go all day on the flat maintaining a fairly good speed but come to a hill and my legs just go, they just don't want to know, my breathing is allright (despite being a 30 a day man, fags not miles) but the legs are just not willing.

I use to do a lot of running, back in the day when I was on 40 a day, and never had a problem with leg fatigue, can anybody recommend any "off bike" work to strengthen the legs or is it just a matter of keep at it?

Seriously - you smoke 30 a day and you are asking how to improve your climbing? And at 12st6 and 5'10, you are borderine overweight according to the NHS charts. So, lose weight and give up the fags, but don't bother strengthening your legs as they are already strong enough, whether you know it or not.

Hawmaw

Frank , I'm 6'2" and 12st7lb (about 80kg I think) and I'm not skinny so you could easily lose a stone and not look too thin.

JayKosta

Frank Wilson wrote:

...
can anybody recommend any "off bike" work to strengthen the legs or is it just a matter of keep at it?

---

Try using a 'step bench' (and a big fan for cooling).
Adjust the height of the step, and your pace so that it is tiring, but you can continue for 30+ minutes. It is not as good as actual riding hills, but is a decent 'off bike' workout.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

jgsi

Didnt know all them Step aerobic gals of yore ( Step aerobics so passe, I spose Zumba doesnt cut the mustard) ) were so sh1t hot at climbing in pink leotards....

farrina

Unless I missed it the OP has not stated his height or profession - he may for instance be a 7-6 bodybuilder and 90 kg might not be far of the mark for his build

At the risk of turning this into a "I'm xx and only xx" thread ....

I'm 6-4 and 12 st7 lb and I'm not skinny either so could (should!) loose 8 lb a touch of middle aged spread on my part me thinks. Its not just exercise of course its down to what you eat as well. I kept a food diary using MyFitnessPal (has a bar code scan facility which gets around most of the tedium of recording) which was quite illuminating when you actually see what calories you are eating.

Looking on the bright side at 90kg if you are fearless you must terrify them at the speed you descend at ....

Regards

Alan

polyx

I'm down to 84 kg from 97kg, and my climbing abilities have improved significantly, but not drastically over the same segment of a hilly TT route. (gone from 1:50 to 1:33) My main point here is to be patient and to not expect better climbing after every pound loss.

Herbsman

I am also terrible on climbs, I weigh in at 80kg (don't know what that is in stone or pounds as I'm a young git) and am 5' 7" so don't think i'm overweight.

I can go all day on the flat maintaining a fairly good speed but come to a hill and my legs just go, they just don't want to know, my breathing is alright (despite being a 4 a day man, cans of Stella not hours) but the legs are just not willing.

I used to do a lot of running, back in the day when I was on 8 cans of Stella a day, and never had a problem with leg fatigue, can anybody recommend any "off bike" work to strengthen the legs or is it just a matter of keep at it?

nammynake

Weak legs on a climb simply reflects cardiovascular fitness. The only way to see noticeable gains is to ride more hills (or replicate the power required on flatter roads for the corresponding time). Leg strength doesn't really impact climbing ability. My static leg strength was much better when I used to lift weights at the gym but that doesn't translate into climbing ability.

Tom Dean

Herbsman wrote:

I am also terrible on climbs, I weigh in at 80kg (don't know what that is in stone or pounds as I'm a young git) and am 5' 7" so don't think i'm overweight.

ric/rstsport

while there are definitely differences in people due to e.g. muscularity, or bone mass, etc., i'd suggest that 80 kg is quite heavy for someone who is 5f7 or 170 cm. This gives a BMI of 27.6 kg/m^2, see http://www.nhs.uk/tools/pages/healthywe ... _id=101007

It should be noted that BMI isn't the be all and end all and doesn't take in to account things such as muscularity.

Ric

manxshred

Earlier this year I decided to enter La Marmotte. Now at 174km and 5,000+ meters of climbing, I was really worried as I was not a good climber at all.
I was sitting at 78 - 80kgs at the time, and I am 1.82m tall (6ft). My goal was to get my weight down to 75kg for the event.
I watched my diet, and rode my bike, a lot. I got around the course (not fast) but at the end I still felt absolutely fine. I know that I took it too easy. Since coming back, I have been setting personal records on all my local climbs. I'm sitting at 71 - 72kg.
I never thought I would ever be that light (I was once 105kg) as I was "big boned" and any of the other usual excuses. I used to wear 38" pants and 16.5" neck shirts, I'm now on 32" pants and 15" shirts. The interesting thing is I am big boned. I have broad shoulders and so wider hips and chest.
By ensuring that I was eating the right amount (not what I thought was the right amount) and lots of training, I have transformed body completely, and by association, completely changed my riding.

My goal is to make this my new default weight as I still have some fat around my waist, and next year get down below 70kg for my cycling events.

BigFatBloke

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

while there are definitely differences in people due to e.g. muscularity, or bone mass, etc., i'd suggest that 80 kg is quite heavy for someone who is 5f7 or 170 cm. This gives a BMI of 27.6 kg/m^2, see http://www.nhs.uk/tools/pages/healthywe ... _id=101007

It should be noted that BMI isn't the be all and end all and doesn't take in to account things such as muscularity.

Ric

Having done a number of sports which include judo & rugby, I can assure you that 80 kg is on the heavy side. There have been one or two top judoka, invariably japanese who have been of similar height and fought at that sort of weight and above. To be 80kg at that height and not be carrying considerable fat is rare and will require a frame with naturally broad shoulders, and considerable upper body muscle big thighs etc. The difference between a light boned skelleton and a big boned skeleton as far as weight is concerned is unlikely to be even worth considering as the entire skeleton only weighs 12% to 20% of total body weight. You can get some well built muscular rugby players at that sort of weight but they probably carry more fat than most, not that that is a bad thing for a hooker or winger even at rugby.

I very much doubt anyone other than a body builder should weigh that much even if they were doing the sort of port which requires a lot of muscle - but there are exceptions. But not in an endurance sport like cycling or running.

I know for a fact I can look perfectly fit at 80kg at 5' 71/2"and I could even be competitive, but, when I got down to some serious training and had all the body fat tests done, so I know the weight loss was not muscle, the scientists advised I could healthily fight at 73 kg (NB that is a real walking about weight with no deliberate dehydraton to make weight), but to go below that would mean deliberately losing muscle and would not be healthy. But I am an exception.

Now if you look at the height of a middle weight boxer at 73kg, most are 5'10" even 6'. A 5' 7" middleweight boxer is rare. Roberto Duran only faught at middleweight when old, remember how small he looked alongside Hagler a natural middleweight. Boxers are lighter usually than judoka or wrestlers at the same height.

So at 80kg it is possible you are not overweight, but I would bet if you had some real tests done that you have more body fat than you think.

Camus

I'm 6'2 and 73kg (11.5st in old money) and don't look too thin, never had the biggest chest but not puny either.

I'd agree with the guy who suggested hill reps, your endurance and CV fitness will continue to improve and you'll also be burning plenty of calories due to the extra intensity so should shift some weight too (don't neglect the diet). I find climbing is also psychological and about having the right mentality as much as it is about power ratio etc.

You could also try some interval training on the hills and on the flat.

I'd also second the comment about gym strength not equalling cycling strength. I use a gym 2-3 times a week but if I don't cycle the strength goes even if I'm continuing gym sessions.

ric/rstsport

just to clarify: cycling uphill doesn't require you to be very strong. The forces involved in endurance cycling are very small, and if you can't generate these forces it's likely that there is something wrong with you, which would potentially preclude you from cycling anyway.

For e.g., the force requirement for *winning* a mountain TT in the Tour de France on a mountain such as Alpe d'Huez requires an average force requirement of ~ 25 kg between both legs (i.e., ~12.5 kg a leg) for a ~70 kg person (so if you can't generate ~25kg you'd be in trouble as you wouldn't be able to stand up).

Ric