Advice on new FS trail bike needed

xylophone

Kowalski675 wrote:

Why not? Evans have shops all over the country, and they're all a lot closer than Germany, so you'll have a lot less chance of looking at a Canyon, never mind riding one, lol. For most models and sizes of Canyon you'll have a bloody long wait too, assuming you want one of the ones that isn't already sold out for 2013.

You're right I do need to visit a few more shops. But chances are I won't see that bike they have hundreds on their website they won't stock them all locally. All the shops I've looked at so far are overpriced compared to online.

Kowalski675 wrote:

If you believe largely fictional manufacturer's claimed weights. If you do, can you pass a letter on to Santa for me next time you see him, lol? I'd bet money that you couldn't feel a 600g weight difference in a blind test (assuming it wasn't in the wheels/tyres), and if you're that obsessed with weight as your primary buying criteria why would you be adding a Reverb anyway? Strange logic there. I actually weighed the Norco, Zesty 314 and Fuel EX8 when I tried them back to back a few weeks ago, but I can't remember the Norco's exact weight now it was sub 14kg though in medium and with pedals - so add a set of pedals to Canyon's claimed weight figure and the difference is three fifths of bugger all).

Unfortunately the manufacturer weights are all I have to go on. Can't be taking a set of scales round the shops with me can I. You may be right that I won't consciously feel 600g, but maybe my overall times round the trails would show it up?

I'm not obsessed with weight but I want to make the climbs easier not harder. I do alot of XC type riding too. And I'm adding a dropper post because I'm fed up of constantly having to raise and lower the seat post. In actual fact I usually don't bother so I don't perform as well on the descents as I could be. And whenever I try to do some jumps the saddle is in the way unless I lower it. Take Llandegla B-line for example. Benefits from a lower saddle but then after the first half there is a climb back up before the second set of jumps. Fed up of having to stop mid trail to raise the saddle for 5 minutes climb.

According to the website the norco is 13.86 kg. Not sure if this is with pedals or not. Don't know how much a reverb adds. Its higher than I wanted. 14kg is at the high end for a trail bike isn't it? Why would I settle for that if I'm spending alot of money?

supersonic

What is the exact seatpost size of the Decathlon you were looking at?

Kowalski675

xylophone wrote:

[Unfortunately the manufacturer weights are all I have to go on. Can't be taking a set of scales round the shops with me can I.

Why not? I did. Does your jacket not have a pocket, lol?

14kg is at the high end for a trail bike isn't it? Why would I settle for that if I'm spending alot of money?

By any sane definition, two grand is a lot of money, but you need to accept that, in terms of the p**s take levels that bicycle prices (and particularly full sussers) have risen to in recent years, you aren't spending a lot of money - you're shopping at the budget end, and need to be realistic about what that buys you in today's Rip Off Britain.

The Rookie

supersonic wrote:

What is the exact seatpost size of the Decathlon you were looking at?

29.8mm from this thread
viewtopic.php?f=20005&t=12932104

So a 27.2mm gravity will fit with a shim for example....or a KSi

LMGTFY http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dropper+seatpost+27.2

Really not ruddy hard!

xylophone

The Beginner wrote:

supersonic wrote:

What is the exact seatpost size of the Decathlon you were looking at?

29.8mm from this thread
viewtopic.php?f=20005&t=12932104

So a 27.2mm gravity will fit with a shim for example....or a KSi

LMGTFY http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dropper+seatpost+27.2

Really not ruddy hard!

Appreciate the link but you don't need to take the p1ss, how would I know to search for a 27.2mm size? Thats why I'm asking here I don't know about these things at all.

I've googled KSI they don't seem to have a website.

poah

xylophone wrote:

I'm not going to be able to see one most likely let alone ride one.

Its 13.86kg with wire bead tyres so I could shave some off with folding but then what does a reverb add?

Whereas the canyon is 13.2kg including the reverb and black chilli tyres, and better brakes.

I don't know about the fork because fox forks models confuse me.

You'll not feel the difference

hainman

Giant Reign 2 is the one i went for in the end,and its been a fantastic buy,plus dropper post,only downside was the shitty Avid brakes but once i swapped my XT;s over its a far better bike,

The Rookie

xylophone wrote:

Appreciate the link but you don't need to take the p1ss, how would I know to search for a 27.2mm size?

You were adament you needed a dropper which strongly implies riding long enough to know about shims and thereofr you'd know most undersized posts can be made to fit using them, you can have one or the other really, not both!

Still not convinced you need a dropper for the type of riding the 9.2 is designed for (trail), maybe if it was a 140mm plus AM bike......a day on a skills course would probably see you not needing a dropper for less money and less weight and your overall riding would improve.

Chrisa1967

Well, for what its worth......

I have no idea what my Trek fuel (EX 8) weighs but its 120mm travel has always been fine at Gisburn and the like and it is great for my normal weekend XC riding too. It seems, like me, you need one bike to do it all so bear that in mind. Mine was forgotten at the back of the shop and I paid £1500 for it.

As someone else said, you are at the right time to be picking up last year's (2013) model of whatever at a knockdown price. For gods sake don't pay full whack to have the 2014 colour.

I really wouldn't stress over the weight too much either. Personally I carry a few pounds around my middle which would be the first and cheapest weight to lose off the total!

I would also add a big +1 for a skills course. Look up Great Rock. A day with Ed Oxley is the best money I ever spent on MTB.

Kowalski675

Chrisa1967 wrote:

I would also add a big +1 for a skills course. Look up Great Rock. A day with Ed Oxley is the best money I ever spent on MTB.

Which course did you do? I'm looking at doing the "Stop Crashing" level 1.

xylophone

The Rookie wrote:

You were adament you needed a dropper which strongly implies riding long enough to know about shims and thereofr you'd know most undersized posts can be made to fit using them, you can have one or the other really, not both!

I would like a dropper. That doesn't mean I know anything about them apart from the function they perform. I know what a shim is but I've never had cause to change my seatpost that originally came with my current bike so no, I wouldn't really know about shims and all the different seatpost sizes.

The Rookie wrote:

Still not convinced you need a dropper for the type of riding the 9.2 is designed for (trail), maybe if it was a 140mm plus AM bike......a day on a skills course would probably see you not needing a dropper for less money and less weight and your overall riding would improve.

What is trail riding anyway??? I want a bike that I can ride xc on (i.e most of cannock, hopton), that I can take fast descents on (bits of cannock, hopton, llandegla), that I can do some jumping on (i.e Llandegla b-line, maybe a go on stile cop), that I can ride rocky trails on (i.e coed-y-brenin, penmachno). I don't know what travel bike is best for all this. I still need to be able to climb fireroads and singletrack/technical climbs so weight is also a factor. I'm fed up of lowering my seat for descents now (so often I don't bother which is restricting my speed), and I want to learn to jump, so a reverb seems the logical option.

I have considered doing a jumps course but haven't got the bike for it yet really, which is partially why I'm looking.

mcnultycop

Kowalski675 wrote:

Chrisa1967 wrote:

I would also add a big +1 for a skills course. Look up Great Rock. A day with Ed Oxley is the best money I ever spent on MTB.

Which course did you do? I'm looking at doing the "Stop Crashing" level 1.

I did the half day Stop Crashing Level One and it was the best £50 I've ever spent on my bike.

prawny

Lapierre Zesty £1800 at evans? I fancy one of them, I ride cannock A LOT and I reckon something a bit sturdier like that would let you have more fun down the line. My Rockrider is quite a lot of fun, but I think (I'd need something to compare to properly) I'm flexing the back end or wheel quite a bit now.

Also I reckon for cannock a dropper post makes a lot of sense.

Kowalski675

mcnultycop wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

Chrisa1967 wrote:

I would also add a big +1 for a skills course. Look up Great Rock. A day with Ed Oxley is the best money I ever spent on MTB.

Which course did you do? I'm looking at doing the "Stop Crashing" level 1.

I did the half day Stop Crashing Level One and it was the best £50 I've ever spent on my bike.

Cheers - it's the Stop Crashing level 1 full day at Gisburn I'm looking at. Thanks for the feedback, seems the bearded fella comes highly recommended all round.

Kowalski675

prawny wrote:

Lapierre Zesty £1800 at evans? I fancy one of them,

The 214 at £1899? Nice looking bike, but you can see where they've cut costs - primarily the wheels and brakes. The wheels are no better than what came on my 2007 Carrera Kraken that cost me £220 - that's pretty f*****g poor on a two grand bike. I tried the 314 (£2400) and liked how it felt (and looked), but all those tales of cracking frames (and poor warranty service from Hotlines) would put me off.

Uli

I am looking for +/- 2k FS bike myself and it appears there seems to be quite big difference between same family bikes divided by 2k mark. Unfortunately wheels seems to be the main item taking cost cutting. I don't mind cheaper brakes or cheaper groupset but you are going to feel the handling difference between formula/ alex setups vs Shimano XT/ Mavic ones. I guess sacrifice has to be made but I am more and more tempted by direct sales offers.

prawny

Kowalski675 wrote:

prawny wrote:

Lapierre Zesty £1800 at evans? I fancy one of them,

The 214 at £1899? Nice looking bike, but you can see where they've cut costs - primarily the wheels and brakes. The wheels are no better than what came on my 2007 Carrera Kraken that cost me £220 - that's pretty f*****g poor on a two grand bike. I tried the 314 (£2400) and liked how it felt (and looked), but all those tales of cracking frames (and poor warranty service from Hotlines) would put me off.

That's the one, wheels are always the first upgrade, they're almost like pedals on some bikes now, they'll stick any old shite on so you can wheel it about for a bit until you get something you like.

I've heard about the cracked frames, it is a bit off putting. But I've not heard anything for a couple of years, fingers crossed they've sorted that.

supersonic

The rims on the 214 are fine, made by a little known, but high quality company. Is a 450g AM rim, lighter than mavics best after market effort.

xylophone

Thanks everyone for the replies.

I'm gonna wait a while. There seems to be too much uncertainty in bikes/spec at the price I wanted to pay and I'm not gonna blow it on the wrong bike and regret it later. Will keep thinking about it maybe buy towards the end of the year.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

The rims on the 214 are fine, made by a little known, but high quality company. Is a 450g AM rim, lighter than mavics best after market effort.

When I was looking at wheels for my Kraken recently you could buy the same wheelset for less than £90 on Shimano hubs (or less than £70 on Quando hubs), The rims themselves can be had for £15 each. I handled a pair in my LBS and they certainly weren't light (heavier than Mavic EN321s on Shimano hubs). £15 rims on a two grand bike? Taking the p**s. If I was going to buy a Zesty I'd pay the extra for the 314.

supersonic

But they are good rims! Mach1 Neo are not heavier than EN321 at all, some 120g lighter each, but that was on the 2012 model. The 2013 sub zero weight is 460g, so110g lighter each. Cheap doesn't mean crap. These are quality rims.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

But they are good rims! Mach1 Neo are not heavier than EN521 at all, some 90g lighter each, but that was on the 2012 model. The 2013 sub zero weight is 460g, so 80g lighter each. Cheap doesn't mean crap. These are quality rims.

I weighed them and the EN321s, both on Shimano hubs - can't remember the exact figures, but the Sub Zeros were substantially heavier (you could feel they were heavy just holding them) - I'm not saying they're shite, but they're very much a low end budget rim (and look and feel it), and no lightweights. The shop guy advised against buying them for anything more than light XC use.

supersonic

Well one of us is mistaken then! These have been tested at WMB (1997g on Acor/Deore hubs), scored highly and were rated for their toughness - I have also seen them, and they were lightweight, good quality offerings. All I can think of is that there has been variants and we have seen different ones.

nobby2607

Alright,

I had the same problem as you a couple of years back but for a budget about £500 less, ended up plumbing for the canyon. Can't recommend them enough, build quality is superb, spec CANT be beaten for the price. I got the 120mm nerve xc, it's took everything I have thrown at it no bother at all. Usually ride hamsterley/ glentress and its seen a few decent rides in the lakes, dalby and stuff like that. I'm usually on the black or red in trail centres and it'll fly round either without complaint. Very surprising how capable it is for 120mm.

it's just now that I have had a couple of niggles with it, general wear and tear stuff and the service has been superb in supplying me with info/ spares. They also told me before i bought it if the sizing was wrong they would take it back and swap it without any hassle. I used the size checker on there website, a bit of weird measuring and it worked perfectly for me. If you really do need it the 150mm is there under budget with a dropper, lot of bike though, think it'll climb Well too. Might be bias but I just can't see past them for value and QUALITY.

I'm looking to buy something new now and looking at 29ers (tall boy/ yeti). I'll still be keeping the canyon though, she'll still be used and abused as always. Only thing stopping me with the canyon 29er is they got no stock left till October!!

Kowalski675

That's the problem with Canyons - actually getting one.

Uli

You go to Canyon website, buy one, pay for it and you get package within 5-9 days (according to their customers). What did I miss as I am really looking to buy one?

Kowalski675

Uli wrote:

You go to Canyon website, buy one, pay for it and you get package within 5-9 days (according to their customers). What did I miss as I am really looking to buy one?

The fact that many models are out of stock (with long waits) and numerous others are sold out completely for 2013 bikes.

nobby2607

The stock levels are down due to the time of year it is. They are trying to get shot of the 2013 stock so they can get ready for the 2014 stock coming in September time. I wouldn't worry about the prices dropping if you can get one now either, not to say they are future proof or anything but the frames haven't changed since they first brought out the nerve or the strive, and I don't believe they are looking to change them now and they don't really sell off the old stock cheap like most company's. I seen a zesty 514 a few months back and that was a grand less than it was when it came out!

They are definitely a bike worth waiting for if you can hang on 2 months or so till they release the new models, interested to see what the new colour schemes are. That's been the only thing to change since I bought mine. Never know in a couple of months might of saved up that bit extra to get the next model up, or the carbon fibre one, that's only a couple of hundred quid more man. Once the new ones are out you won't have any trouble getting one, until about this time next year!

I am in two minds wether to wait for the new 29er nerve or just get the tall boy, I demod the tall boy and absolutely loved thing, but just can't seem to get the value for money thing out of my head! I could get the top level canyon nerve 29er and save about a grand on the tallboy build im looking at. Only thing is if she sees another canyon in the stable no doubt the earache will start with "can't believe you paid all that money for the same bloody bike!" :?

The Rookie

Kowalski675 wrote:

I weighed them and the EN321s, both on Shimano hubs.

Sure they weren't the Mach1 MX rim, that is a lardy thing (Sold by Superstar as the Vapour and comes in at about 500g, it's what I swapped off when building my 1700g wheelset).

Jay76

I was in the same position as you, one of my friends recommended a 2011 Cove stiffee...
Im glad he did as its awesome.
Got mine for 415 quid second hand, came with 2007 (I think) 130mil Rock shox revelations and Im always the first at the bottom of the hill when we race down decents
Strong strong bike and looks mint in white.