Advice on new FS trail bike needed

xylophone

Hello everyone.

I've been riding for about 2 years now after getting back into cycling in my early 30's.

I currently ride a 2011 rockrider 8.1. Its been a good bike (and still works fine), but I've been saving for a while and now am lucky to have up to £2k to spend on a new bike.

I want a full suspension, and 26" wheels.

What I'm completely undecided on is what bike would be most suited to the trails I ride, and would allow me to push harder and faster on the descents. I probably won't be doing any downhill (its a bit too far out of my skill level and bravery threshold), but I definitely want to get faster and better on descents at typical trail centres (red and black routes). I get shook around like mad on my hardtail and have plateaued in terms of speed.

Places I ride regularly are Cannock, Llandegla, Hopton and less often but at least once a year would be Coed-Y-Brenin, Penmachno and the like. I will eventually get round more uk centres.

A short travel FS (120mm) would be lighter and more xc orientated but would I gain a great deal over my current bike?

Whereas a longer travel FS like the Canyon Nerve AL+ (150mm) would enable harder riding but is heavier and slacker so not so great on the climbs (of which there are many on my usual trails).

I'd also really like a reverb seat post because I'm fed up of my seat bumping me up the arse when I'm on the descents or having a go at jumping (and I get very fed up of manually dropping the seat).

Could anyone offer any advice?

Thanks

Kowalski675

One of these (leaves £200 change for your dropper post)?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/nor ... 8#features

kammybear

If I had the cash, I would go for this

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p435 ... ORE-2-2012

Probably more of a 3k bike rather than 4k but at 1800...it's everything I would need...

rapid_donkey

If I were in your shoes, I would get on to Pauls Cycles and get a 2011 Giant Trance X3 for £1430:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p350 ... CE-X3-2011

or get a 2012 Giant Trance X2 for £1400:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p442 ... CE-X2-2012

Either of those bikes will stand up perfectly to whatever you ask of it. You will have plenty of change for a Reverb. And also Pauls Cycles are fantastic.

I certainly would refrain from paying full RRP for a 26" wheel bike now, most manufacturers are going to 650b. 26" parts will be around for years to come though, I wont be switching for a few years yet (unless I have to).

xylophone

kammybear wrote:

If I had the cash, I would go for this

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p435 ... ORE-2-2012

Probably more of a 3k bike rather than 4k but at 1800...it's everything I would need...

180mm travel seems a bit much for what I need, although it sure looks a well specced bike for the price. Any idea what it weighs?

rapid_donkey wrote:

If I were in your shoes, I would get on to Pauls Cycles and get a 2011 Giant Trance X3 for £1430:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p350 ... CE-X3-2011

or get a 2012 Giant Trance X2 for £1400:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p442 ... CE-X2-2012

Both looks decent spec. Which one is better out of the two versions? Also any idea on weight?

I'm unsure whether I'm selling myself short though by going for a short travel FS. Is 125mm enough?

Kowalski675 wrote:

One of these (leaves £200 change for your dropper post)?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/nor ... 8#features

My current bike weighs 13kg. Don't really want to go heavier than this. Certainly not up to 14kg which that Norco Sight 3 comes in at.

Kowalski675

xylophone wrote:

My current bike weighs 13kg. Don't really want to go heavier than this. Certainly not up to 14kg which that Norco Sight 3 comes in at.

You need to think again then, or increase your budget significantly.

rapid_donkey

Between the X2 and the X3 on Pauls Cycles website, the 2012 X2 is probably the better bike. Most of the components are the same but it has slightly better Elixir 5 brakes and an XT rear mech. The front forks are the same, but the X2 also has an RP2 (switchable Pro-Pedal) shock vs the X3's Float R (built in Pro-Pedal).

They only have the X2 in L or XL though, and the X3 in M.

Dont be fooled by 'only' 125mm of travel, these are go anywhere do anything bikes. Read all the reviews, they are great bikes.

I have a Trance X3 myself. Ridden it on red and black routes, Peak District rides, it just does it all.
Just thrown mine on the bathroom scales, and it comes in at 13.6kg. Thats with a Reverb on, Mavic Superstar wheelset and some new pedals, bar, stem etc.

stubs

Does it have to be new £2k will get you a lot of 2nd hand bike on ebay, gumtree or the for sale forum on here.

xylophone

Yeah I do really want new if I'm spending that kind of money. If I spend £2k 2nd hand then yes I'll probably be getting a £4k bike but that's a £4k bike which has more than likely been ragged down DH tracks for 2 years.

I'd need a medium size.

I'm kind of surprised I cant get 13kg for £2k to be honest. £2k is alot of money.

How does this Canyon Nerve AL+ compare to the Giants? https://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3040 13.2kg is maybe not too bad considering it comes with 2.4" tyres.

Or this Nerve AL 8 https://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3028#tab-reiter2 which is the 120mm travel version but it comes in at only 11.9kg. I did think I wanted more than 120mm travel though.

Pauls cycles also have a Trance X1 on sale: http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p4428/GIANT-TRANCE-X1-2012 Does this compare well with the X2 and X3? I'd still need to buy a reverb tho.

Or I could get a Giant Reign 2 http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p4940/GIANT-Reign-2-2013 for £2k. Looks to me like not a great spec (Elixir 1 brakes on a £2k bike!).

xylophone

Not sure what the forum etiquette is on bumping threads so sorry if its against the rules, but does anyone have any other opinions on which bike to look at?

Thanks

supersonic

You can get 13kg for £1200:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-92 ... ctFeatures

xylophone

supersonic wrote:

You can get 13kg for £1200:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-92 ... ctFeatures

I have looked at that one closely, I'm more than happy with my rockrider 8.1 that I have now, but I wanted to move a little away from xc towards a bit more of a stronger trail orientated bike. Plus I saved 2k because I wanted something a bit better with better parts.

supersonic

It is a trail bike though ;-). Not sure you'll get much better parts even for your max budget.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

You can get 13kg for £1200:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-92 ... ctFeatures

If you believe manufacturer's claimed weight figures. I don't. I don't believe in the tooth fairy, Santa or Brigadoon either. The rockrider 8.1 in last month's MBUK test was a claimed 13.8kg, but I'm sceptical of magazine test figures too, unless they're specifically stated as measured weights. What Mountain Bike's trailbike of the year test has the Boardman Team FS at 13.2kg, but mine weighs 13.96kg. The weight in itself's not the full picture though - my Team Fs is only half a kilo lighter than my Kraken, but the difference feels much bigger. Riding both back to back you can feel that there's significantly less weight in the tyres and wheels on the Boardman - it feels much more lively, and the Carrera feels blunt and slow to get rolling in comparison. The Boardman certainly doesn't feel heavy. That Decathlon claimed weight's without pedals too (what's the point in that, you may as well quote a weight without handlebars, forks or frame) so even if it's true you've got to add another 400g or so to it.

xylophone

supersonic wrote:

It is a trail bike though ;-). Not sure you'll get much better parts even for your max budget.

I know the decathlon bikes are good value so with that in mind then how does the rockrider compare with the canyons? I find the fox fork models quite confusing compared to rockshox. I'd be adding a reverb to both the rockrider and the Canyon AL.

Rockrider 9.2: http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-92-mountain-bike-white-id_8208373.html

Canyon Nerve AL+ 7.0: https://www.canyon.com/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3040

Canyon Nerve AL 8.0: https://www.canyon.com/mountainbikes/bike.html?b=3028

felix.london

You've already got a short travel XC bike so if it was me I'd go as far away from that as possible. So out of those 3, the AL+ would be my choice

supersonic

Kowalski675 wrote:

supersonic wrote:

You can get 13kg for £1200:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-92 ... ctFeatures

If you believe manufacturer's claimed weight figures. I don't. I don't believe in the tooth fairy, Santa or Brigadoon either. The rockrider 8.1 in last month's MBUK test was a claimed 13.8kg, but I'm sceptical of magazine test figures too, unless they're specifically stated as measured weights. What Mountain Bike's trailbike of the year test has the Boardman Team FS at 13.2kg, but mine weighs 13.96kg. The weight in itself's not the full picture though - my Team Fs is only half a kilo lighter than my Kraken, but the difference feels much bigger. Riding both back to back you can feel that there's significantly less weight in the tyres and wheels on the Boardman - it feels much more lively, and the Carrera feels blunt and slow to get rolling in comparison. The Boardman certainly doesn't feel heavy. That Decathlon claimed weight's without pedals too (what's the point in that, you may as well quote a weight without handlebars, forks or frame) so even if it's true you've got to add another 400g or so to it.

Yes, you have to add pedals, but Decathlons weights are usually good. Frame size makes a difference too. Mag tests are usually accurate as well - I should know, I have tested and weighed enough parts for WMB.

rockmonkeysc

xylophone wrote:

rapid_donkey wrote:

If I were in your shoes, I would get on to Pauls Cycles and get a 2011 Giant Trance X3 for £1430:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p350 ... CE-X3-2011

or get a 2012 Giant Trance X2 for £1400:
http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b0s1p442 ... CE-X2-2012

Both looks decent spec. Which one is better out of the two versions? Also any idea on weight?

I'm unsure whether I'm selling myself short though by going for a short travel FS. Is 125mm enough?

Kowalski675 wrote:

One of these (leaves £200 change for your dropper post)?

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/nor ... 8#features

My current bike weighs 13kg. Don't really want to go heavier than this. Certainly not up to 14kg which that Norco Sight 3 comes in at.

The Trance may only have 125mm travel but it can be ridden as hard as any 140mm bike. Mine took a proper beating and took it well. It's a tough frame and rides very well. Weight was pretty good, my large Trance X2 was 28lb.
The X2 is the higher spec model.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

Kowalski675 wrote:

supersonic wrote:

You can get 13kg for £1200:

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/rockrider-92 ... ctFeatures

If you believe manufacturer's claimed weight figures. I don't. I don't believe in the tooth fairy, Santa or Brigadoon either. The rockrider 8.1 in last month's MBUK test was a claimed 13.8kg, but I'm sceptical of magazine test figures too, unless they're specifically stated as measured weights. What Mountain Bike's trailbike of the year test has the Boardman Team FS at 13.2kg, but mine weighs 13.96kg. The weight in itself's not the full picture though - my Team Fs is only half a kilo lighter than my Kraken, but the difference feels much bigger. Riding both back to back you can feel that there's significantly less weight in the tyres and wheels on the Boardman - it feels much more lively, and the Carrera feels blunt and slow to get rolling in comparison. The Boardman certainly doesn't feel heavy. That Decathlon claimed weight's without pedals too (what's the point in that, you may as well quote a weight without handlebars, forks or frame) so even if it's true you've got to add another 400g or so to it.

Yes, you have to add pedals, but Decathlons weights are usually good. Frame size makes a difference too. Mag tests are usually accurate as well - I should know, I have tested and weighed enough parts for WMB.

Either Decathlon's scales are out, MBUK's scales are out, or they fitted a f*****g heavy set of pedals for last month's test, lol...

Tom Barton

Remember all FS bikes will be heavier than their hard tail equivalents. However, a well made full sus bike should feel lively enough if its angles are good and the wheels/tyres arnt too lardy. Factor in that the suspension will aid with grip and traction on the climbs that will in more ways make climbing up rocky climbs much easier. Don't get too hung up on weight - look for bikes that pedal well/are nice and stiff etc. The giants and Norco get great reviews. However, you can't beat Decathalon and Canyon for value. And remember always try get the best bike you can for the money - aftermarket parts are always more expensive than buying the best kitted out bike you can. (Also - if you want a reverb, may I suggest bike-discount.he - they seem to be the cheapest by far online (new)).

I ride a 29lb long travel suspension bike around and generally get up the hills faster than 85% of other riders on the trail thanks both to the legs and also that the bike behaves well under pedalling and gives ample grip to plow up the technical sections...

Kowalski675

Tom Barton wrote:

Remember all FS bikes will be heavier than their hard tail equivalents. However, a well made full sus bike should feel lively enough if its angles are good and the wheels/tyres arnt too lardy.

I've not ridden my new bouncy bike properly yet, but just messing about in the street on both bikes back to back, the hardtail Kraken feels like a big old barge now in comparison. Looking forward to taking the new toy to Gisburn.

xylophone

Ok its back to the drawing board. I'd settled on the RR9.2 but I can't fit a dropper post to it :evil: Really annoyed.

So I need something of equivalent spec and I can spend up to £2k including the reverb.

Thanks for any more ideas!

mcnultycop

There you go, bit more travel than the Rockrider, with a Reverb Stealth.

Or that with £200 left for a reverb.

poah

you should check out CRC for he savings that can be had for 2012 bikes

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=68820

Thewaylander

I would also add IMO its not about the travel.

Its more about how the bike rides, i do most things on my 160mm bike, why? its slack has a low centre of gravity making it extremely stable and confident, also its very stiff making it handle well.

Having ridden many 120mm bikes none them offer me the right set up for how i like a bike to handle and behave, so get on a few and see what you like your bike to handle like!

stubs

xylophone wrote:

Ok its back to the drawing board. I'd settled on the RR9.2 but I can't fit a dropper post to it :evil: Really annoyed.

Why cant you fit a dropper to the RR9 is it a funny size seat post tube.

xylophone

stubs wrote:

Why cant you fit a dropper to the RR9 is it a funny size seat post tube.

Yes the seatpost diameter is too small by about 1mm.

Thewaylander wrote:

so get on a few

Can't really see how I can do this. Ive had a look round a few shops and sat on a few but without taking them on the trail (and getting used to how they ride) how will I know for sure.

Butterd2

You could try building one up from parts, some new some 2nd hand. I built a Trance X for a little under £2k, it weighs 29lbs with a dropper;
Frame (eBay) £400
Fox Floats Kashima (Pinkbike) £400
XT Groupset (new from ze Germans) £300
Deore brakes (new) £90
Flows on Hope (new) £300
Reverb (new, again ze Germans) £200
Hans Dampfs (new) £60
Fizik Gobi £30
Bars,stem, pedals all kicking around.

It's probably not as economical as buying a whole bike 2nd hand but at least I know most of the bits that wear are new, I've serviced the shocks and it's nice to know how it all goes together.

Kowalski675

xylophone wrote:

Ok its back to the drawing board. I'd settled on the RR9.2 but I can't fit a dropper post to it :evil: Really annoyed.

So I need something of equivalent spec and I can spend up to £2k including the reverb.

Thanks for any more ideas!

I stll think you'd be a fool to dismiss the Norco without having even looked at one, or ridden one.

xylophone

I'm not going to be able to see one most likely let alone ride one.

Its 13.86kg with wire bead tyres so I could shave some off with folding but then what does a reverb add?

Whereas the canyon is 13.2kg including the reverb and black chilli tyres, and better brakes.

I don't know about the fork because fox forks models confuse me.

Kowalski675

xylophone wrote:

I'm not going to be able to see one most likely let alone ride one.

Why not? Evans have shops all over the country, and they're all a lot closer than Germany, so you'll have a lot less chance of looking at a Canyon, never mind riding one, lol. For most models and sizes of Canyon you'll have a bloody long wait too, assuming you want one of the ones that isn't already sold out for 2013.

Whereas the canyon is 13.2kg including the reverb and black chilli tyres, and better brakes.

If you believe largely fictional manufacturer's claimed weights. If you do, can you pass a letter on to Santa for me next time you see him, lol? I'd bet money that you couldn't feel a 600g weight difference in a blind test (assuming it wasn't in the wheels/tyres), and if you're that obsessed with weight as your primary buying criteria why would you be adding a Reverb anyway? Strange logic there. I actually weighed the Norco, Zesty 314 and Fuel EX8 when I tried them back to back a few weeks ago, but I can't remember the Norco's exact weight now it was sub 14kg though in medium and with pedals - so add a set of pedals to Canyon's claimed weight figure and the difference is three fifths of bugger all).