Even Orange are at it now...

concorde

When I first used to come on here I used to see a lot of hatred for Orange bikes, and I took it on board. They're overpriced etc and pretty ugly. The more and more I see of them however the more I like them. They're class riding bikes! Some of the quickest riders I know ride Orange bikes. And their look is growing on me also, nice and simple, Not 4000 pivots like the new GT! Or Lapierres that look really nice but snap all the time!

650B however, pile of shit!

bluechair84

Having never ridden a 650b, I'm completely unable to comment on how much of an evolution they are (nudge nudge). But if you think about all the small changes people make to their bikes; marginally thicker grips, 1deg slacksets, 0.2in wider tyres, a few psi in fork/shock/tyre, nudging about brake levers until they are fractions of mm perfect... I'm amazed at the number of people that assume a slight change in wheel diameter can't have a similar 'slight' positive effects. Hell, I even sought out a 35t chainring because I didn't want a 36t! Riders are very susceptible to the feel of a bike and slight changes are important.
Having said that, it does seem to be industry led, not market led. Frankly, I doubt the story behind the Bronson's creation - that smacks of marketing BS to me. I've never met anyone who said 'this bike is perfect... I just wish it had slightly larger wheels'.

lawman

People seem to fail to realize that there is a lot of demand for 650b around the world, regardless of whether its for the right reasons or not. The industry has to react to this demand and keep the product development going. Nothin wrong with what we have ATM with 26ers or 29ers, but the industry has to make the money and if the demand is there they have to respond to it. If a company gets hundreds of calls asking why they don't make a certain bike, it's in their interests to make it. Obviously this then has a knock on effect to competitors that have to compete with similar bikes to avoid losing their own sales. Competition drives the industry.

As for those that say 650b is being forced on us, haven't 26ers been forced us since the beginning because that's the only tyres people could get? Had the original guys had the choice, we probably wouldn't have chosen 26ers as default. Things are changing, better get used it. For those who don't buy new bikes every year or two I see no issues any way, you can still get parts for 26ers, both new and second hand, and heck people might actually like something different if they leave their stupid prejudices behind and actually gave it a chance. Those that rule out a bike purely because it has 650b is just plain silly in most circumstances.

ddraver

bluechair84 wrote:

I've never met anyone who said 'this bike is perfect... I just wish it had slightly larger wheels'.

Have you ever met anyone with the option to change that until this year?

nicklouse

Was not the 650b touted as the quick fix for the makers to go big wheel without changing there designs but charge more?

or is that just the sceptic in me?

rockmonkeysc

After reading this im confused. Nice to see Orange have done this decades update for the Five.

miss notax

Rather amusingly my next bike is going to be a 650b Turner Burner. Which going from a 5 probably makes me the most hated person on this thread

Thewaylander

miss notax wrote:

Rather amusingly my next bike is going to be a 650b Turner Burner. Which going from a 5 probably makes me the most hated person on this thread

Well you do drive a BMW tourer as well now....

The Rookie

As a girlie into MTB's I think that will trump any percieved downside....besides you'll no longer have the 5.....

I also have a BMW Tourer....

Thewaylander

Lawman,

We are not ruling it out, we just think its a bit of a pointless move on the industry and is only in place so they can charge a large premium for new tech that costs them little to nothing in terms of change from 26".

29" i get, i dont like riding them but i get it for some riders, 650b just doesnt actually offer anything in real terms as far as i can tell other than a price hike sure if i prefered a bike and was buying i'd buy the one i liked riding the msot but i dont think it would be the wheels that made that difference in the slightest.

cooldad

If I had some cash I'd buy a 650b Orange 5 just to annoy people.

miss notax

Thewaylander wrote:

miss notax wrote:

Rather amusingly my next bike is going to be a 650b Turner Burner. Which going from a 5 probably makes me the most hated person on this thread

Well you do drive a BMW tourer as well now....

I believe an Audi would have been the correct choice to go with the 5, yes??!

adamfo

supersonic wrote:

Generic answer - overpriced, bad welding, heavy, sound like a bag of spanners in a tumble drier, badly thought out specs, poor suspension, made from old skips and filing cabinets etc etc.

The tests in the German mountain bike mags are less charitable than that :shock:

Thewaylander

miss notax wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

miss notax wrote:

Rather amusingly my next bike is going to be a 650b Turner Burner. Which going from a 5 probably makes me the most hated person on this thread

Well you do drive a BMW tourer as well now....

I believe an Audi would have been the correct choice to go with the 5, yes??!

Nah not historically on this forum :P

ddraver

adamfo wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Generic answer - overpriced, bad welding, heavy, sound like a bag of spanners in a tumble drier, badly thought out specs, poor suspension, made from old skips and filing cabinets etc etc.

The tests in the German mountain bike mags are less charitable than that :shock:

It's actually quite a nice symbol for the difference between UK and Europe Mountain biking...

The Rookie

Makes up for UK mags often giving Eurocentric bikes a pasting I guess!

supersonic

But if you think about all the small changes people make to their bikes; marginally thicker grips, 1deg slacksets, 0.2in wider tyres, a few psi in fork/shock/tyre, nudging about brake levers until they are fractions of mm perfect... I'm amazed at the number of people that assume a slight change in wheel diameter can't have a similar 'slight' positive effects

It can have positive effects for many - and not so positive for others. With grips, pressure and so on,these are things you can change on your existing bike and tweak. With wheel size you are almost always buying into a new platform, and now we are heading towards a platform that will no longer be catered for.

pesky_jones

supersonic wrote:

With wheel size you are almost always buying into a new platform, and now we are heading towards a platform that will no longer be catered for.

The new platform being 650B? How is that not being catered for?

Or did you mean heading away from a platform (26") that will no longer be catered for?

supersonic

The latter.

supersonic

An interesting part of the whole debate is why did they pick the current sizes ie 700c and 650b? Is it a coincidence that they just happen to be the two of the three most popular 'adult' rim sizes in existance (the other being 26)? And the manufacturers have found they are, coincidently, now perfect for us?

Of course it would be a complicated world if every manufacturer had their own set of perfect wheel sizes, as they have to coerce with rim, tyre and fork manufacturer to produce said sizes - it just ain't happening. But it seems from the start that rather than model and test various set ups and release data on what works best in certain situations, they took the existing wheel size and worked around it. Pretty much how we got 26ers in the first place...

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

But it seems from the start that rather than model and test various set ups and release data on what works best in certain situations, they took the existing wheel size and worked around it. Pretty much how we got 26ers in the first place...

CAWT.

Giraffoto

supersonic wrote:

. . . and now we are heading towards a platform that will no longer be catered for . . .[26"]

Not saying you're wrong about the direction we're heading, but I'd be surprised if we're heading there very quickly - 26" still has an immense installed base (to use a marketing term) who will want new tyres for some time to come, and will still be a good choice for older children's bikes

lawman

As fast as people are adopting 650b, I can't see it being consigned to the history books any time soon. New complete bikes and frames might start to become solely 650b pretty quickly, but the rest, forks, wheels, tires will still be offered on new models for a while to come yet.

sofaboy73

don't see what all the fuss is about. not so much in terms of is 650 better than 26 (not personally ridden one, so can't make a informed comment, gut feeling is it'll make little differnce), but more to do with why people are getting so het up about it??

yes it may well be manufacturer hype, and i think supersonic hit the nail on the head saying it feeds itself and becomes a self fulfilling propechy, but i can't see why people are getting so hot under the collar as realistically it won't have any negative impact on them.

if your have a 26" wheel bike now (as i do), you'll be able to get tryes, wheels, forks etc for years to come. In the same way that companies are wanting to jump on the band wagon in order to not loose market share, they are not going to walk away from the majority residual market base, especially when they've laid out all the big costs to be in that market already (R&D, tooling etc).

the argument of limited new product development / availibility for 26" doesn't really stack up for me either. for example, out of all wheel size dependent components I'd say forks have the greatest propensity for change & technological improvement, however 29ers have been around for years, failed to wipe out 26" and you can get the latest range of fox forks in all wheel sizes.

I can see that when people come to buy their next bike in a few years time that only 650B will be available, but what does it matter as you'll have a complete new bike that rides exactly the same a 26er (if common opionion on 650B is to be believed).

if you build you're own, at some point you will have to make a choice which horse to back, but due to the availability of parts and the many years it would take 650 to become the majoirty that will be years away.

and yes, that Orange is as ugly as all the previous incarnations. Slightly biiger wheels isn't going to disctract from the awful welding

steve1200s

If you've rode a 29er, you'll know it has advantages over a 26er, and disadvantages. Isn't 650 just the natural compromise?

I don't see manufacturers phasing out 26" any time soon. Sure they may make(and do) 29" only XC race bikes, but thats because 29ers suit that class in terms of their advantages. Other forms of MTBing are too split and no one wheel size is obviously and advantage over any other, so I think 26 and 650 will always be offered, not just one.

supersonic

650b is marketed as the inbetween size. Except it isn't - it is 1 inch larger in diameter than 26ers (and on the same scale, 29ers are actually 28.5). They should have picked 650A which is bang in the middle.

I think in two years time there will be no new aftermarket stuff for XC bikes in 26ers.

Kowalski675

supersonic wrote:

I think in two years time there will be no new aftermarket stuff for XC bikes in 26ers.

I'm surprised by the speed of the change we seem to be seeing - manufacturers seem to be dropping 26ers like a poo covered stick.

bluechair84

I'm looking forward to all the discounts as stores start getting rid of their 26ers! I'm already drooling over a Claymore at Pauls...

supersonic

That should be the good thing cheaper - 26er parts. Already seen some cheap wheelsets going in the classifieds, just missed out on some XTR M975 for £170!

Gazlar

Having tried out both 650s and 29ers I find that being a tall, twitchy kind of rider that is quite high up in posture when he rides, they feel a lot less stable than a 26 inch bike. I know a bike shouldn't compensate for my lack of skill, but as the market has sat for the last 12 months has been great, having the choice really across the board to pick something that really suits you and the way you want to ride, the fact these choices are greadually disappearing is not comforting