Even Orange are at it now...

lawman

Yep, the 26" five is no more. The 2014 models will all be 650b. As much as I dislike Orange, I'm surprised they've done it! What will all the current five owners say!! Mind you guessing how mindless they must have been to buy in the first place they'll be all over this like a fat pigeon on a chip...

http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/bikes/five_s/



Still looks fugly as hell...

pesky_jones

You see, I would say spending thousands and thousands on a top level bike, when your capabilities only require a low level bike - is mindless.

Thewaylander

urgh...

bored of hearing this thing now... i really just dont see the point of the change over if im honest other than digging deep as they can into peoples pockets. 29er for hippies i get, these just pointless...

Much like an orange bike actually

swod1

i've never ridden a 650b bike yet but does 1.5inch difference in wheel size make all that much difference to the ride ?

lawman

Pesky Jones wrote:

You see, I would say spending thousands and thousands on a top level bike, when your capabilities only require a low level bike - is mindless.

Possibly yes. But perhaps the better, more expensive kit is more fun for some people, I certainly have a lot more fun, an ride quicker on either of my current bikes than I comparatively did or would ride on my old Claud Butler that's for sure! You don't need a pro-level bike, but by heck they can be bloody nice to ride!

supersonic

The difference in riding a 20lbs 130mm hardtail and a 30lbs 130mm hardtail is enormous! Especially if there is no compromise to stiffness or strength.

pesky_jones

Hmm I reckon theres a degree of the placebo effect to that to be honest.

supersonic

Not so sure, I have tested enough bikes to draw that conclusion! Having to move 10lbs less weight about underneath you makes a big difference. Just feels more nimble, and I definitely feel it on climbs and sharp burts of acceleration.

Thewaylander

weight maks a huge difference,

if a silly wheel size does is extremely debatable.

The Rookie

swod1 wrote:

i've never ridden a 650b bike yet but does 1.5inch difference in wheel size make all that much difference to the ride ?

Actually a 1" difference.....

Thewaylander

The Beginner wrote:

swod1 wrote:

i've never ridden a 650b bike yet but does 1.5inch difference in wheel size make all that much difference to the ride ?

Actually a 1" difference.....

is that in girth or length...

supersonic

Half an inch difference in radius ie hub height difference ;-)

pesky_jones

My comment was aimed at lawmans response but I suppose it still applies.

Thewaylander

supersonic wrote:

Half an inch difference in radius ie hub height difference ;-)

So the size of an average Cruddies undercarriage... seems a bit pointless to me...

lawman

Pesky Jones wrote:

Hmm I reckon theres a degree of the placebo effect to that to be honest.

There is to a certain extent, once you get above £3000 these days you have to spend a lot more to notice a big difference, but small increases over the whole bike add up to a big difference. Entry level bikes aren't getting any better IMO, if anything for the money you spend the majority are getting worse. Many are happy to pay a premium for the best kit if it adds to their experience, some find that notion stupid, but if we all felt the same we'd all be driving Kia's and living in identical houses.

The fact some people are willing to spend thousands on a bike and of all the bikes out there pick the Five is even more baffling to me!

felix.london

Chunkers1980

lawman wrote:

Pesky Jones wrote:

Hmm I reckon theres a degree of the placebo effect to that to be honest.

There is to a certain extent, once you get above £3000 these days you have to spend a lot more to notice a big difference,

No there isn't you're getting confused.

The point about the placebo was 20lb to 30lb you'd notice the difference. it has nothing to do with £3,000 bikes.

A 30lb 130mm HT could be about £400, a 20lb could be £2,000, you'd notice the weight difference in a blind test for sure.

It is nothing about 'these' days it's always been the case that you get diminshing marginal returns - this happens in most things.

felix.london

no it wasn't, it was about expensive bikes;

Pesky Jones wrote:

My comment was aimed at lawmans response but I suppose it still applies.

lawman

Chunkers1980 wrote:

lawman wrote:

Pesky Jones wrote:

Hmm I reckon theres a degree of the placebo effect to that to be honest.

There is to a certain extent, once you get above £3000 these days you have to spend a lot more to notice a big difference,

No there isn't you're getting confused.

The point about the placebo was 20lb to 30lb you'd notice the difference. it has nothing to do with £3,000 bikes.

A 30lb 130mm HT could be about £400, a 20lb could be £2,000, you'd notice the weight difference in a blind test for sure.

It is nothing about 'these' days it's always been the case that you get diminshing marginal returns - this happens in most things.

As has been pointed, you're the one that's confused :roll:

JMcP92

Just a generic question - why the hate of Orange?

supersonic

Generic answer - overpriced, bad welding, heavy, sound like a bag of spanners in a tumble drier, badly thought out specs, poor suspension, made from old skips and filing cabinets etc etc.

stubs

JMcP92 wrote:

Just a generic question - why the hate of Orange?

Nowt wrong with them really apart from welds that look like they were welded by a drunk on a pogostick. Its Orange riders they are often the sort of bore who makes you want to eat your own ears.

rapid_donkey

I must admit, I have wanted a 5 Pro for ages, and have been close to blowing my cash lately.
Thanks Orange, going to 650b has completely put me off. Most pointless change ever.

thelonegroover

I did predict the demise of the 26er on this very forum. It's happening a bit sooner than even I thought though.

Thewaylander

I think it will not prove as popular as they hope.

rapid_donkey

Im not ignorant to the potential benefits of 650b. I read the BR Lapierre Spicy first ride, where they mentioned the pro Lapierre rider was 1 second quicker on the 650b bike on a 3 minute course. 1 second quicker, for a pro!!
I can understand 29ers, I have ridden one and can see the benefit for xc oriented riders. But 650b I just see as a con.
Theres an Orange Pro with loads of goodies on reduced from £4k to £3.3k in my lbs. I nearly bought it thinking he was giving it away at that price. So glad I didnt now.

supersonic

The rise of the 650b has happened for a few reasons, and is in part a self perpetuating loop. A few originally introduced it as an alternative to 29ers, the 'benefits of both, best of all worlds blah blah'. And I believe many of those manufacturers just wanted a slice of the big wheel pie after seeing the success Spesh has had (but wanted to do it differently). There has been demand, no denying that, and people do like to try new things. But this demand gives the manufacturers reason to insist that it is the only way they can sell new stuff as everybody wants it (when they don't, people still want 26ers, and 29ers for that matter), thus making them successful through lack of choice. And so it continues and pushes the market. Add to that the fact that others jump on incase they might get left behind, then the choice is limited even more.

I like the idea of replacable dropouts on frames - if done right you could run the frame 650b or 26er. The difference in forks is so little I don't know why they just don't make the brace higher on 26er forks and be done with it. Ok, you get a slight differences in trail with bigger wheels hence different offset is built in, but head angle variation and other factors can overwhelm this.

Which simply asks the question - why bother at all when is so slight?

thelonegroover

Agree with most if not all you say.
Does beg the question: Would it be same if it was vice-versa - if they'd started with 650b, would they now be touting 26"?

ddraver

I seem to have been labelled as someone who has drunk the Kool-aid on here about Big Wheels, but I'm really surprised about how fast this is moving...

miss notax

stubs wrote:

JMcP92 wrote:

Just a generic question - why the hate of Orange?

Nowt wrong with them really apart from welds that look like they were welded by a drunk on a pogostick. Its Orange riders they are often the sort of bore who makes you want to eat your own ears.

Really? I find over-opinionated mtbers who take the pee out of other people's bikes have the same effect on me...

pesky_jones

miss notax wrote:

stubs wrote:

JMcP92 wrote:

Just a generic question - why the hate of Orange?

Nowt wrong with them really apart from welds that look like they were welded by a drunk on a pogostick. Its Orange riders they are often the sort of bore who makes you want to eat your own ears.

Really? I find over-opinionated mtbers who take the pee out of other people's bikes have the same effect on me...