Lanterne Rouge 2013

skylla

No tA Doctor wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Got to say something funny before you judge someone's sense of humour.

I'm as bored as anyone of the doping accusations on the spoiler threads, but I'm with Bo on this one. Just a mild joke, moderately amusing, nothing sinister.

Besides which, it's pretty much only him and me actually posting anything on this thread, and I'm not entirely sure why I bother.

I'm following, Doc. As a matter of fact this is the thread I look most forward to every year and you're doing a great job in Tusher's absence. Keep it up, it's an BR institution and it is thus far not spoilt by overzealous haters or lovers of unsung heroes who deserve having their extreme endeavors in the toughest race on earth discussed.

Thanks again, NTD.

Paulie W

There's an article on the LR in this months ProCycling particularly focused on twice winner Gerhard Schönbacher. Also an article on the first Tour which has some discussion of Arsène Millocheau, the first 'winner'.

No_Ta_Doctor

Update after Stage 13: Unlucky for Geraint.

A day where the lanterne contenders would have been hoping for an easy ride and not expecting to see any major time drops was blown apart by the crosswinds and the echelons that formed. This was a day for canny riders with years of experience to show their tactical nous by accidentally losing a team-mates wheel and slipping out the of the echelon to glory.

Kazza Muravyev showed just why he's leading this competition. With the experience of his many years of racing for dubious teams he managed to slip away from team leader Fuglsang and drop back through the echelons, finishing a whopping 10'11'' behind Cavendish. This even earnt him a few seconds on Canadian Tufty Swine, who couldn't quite drop out of the echelon in front and only managed to drop 9'54''.

Fellow Canadian Low Ryder Hejsedaaaaaal, not a threat in the overall, was allowed to show what he could do when trying, with a hefty 13'36'' dropped, alongside a host of lanterne also rans such as Voeckler, de Gendt, Hoogerland and Cunego.

Stuart O'Grady also demonstrated his tactical know-how finishing in the same 9'54'' group as Tufty.

Ned Flanders once again lacked the consistency to truly compete, only dropping 5'29''.

Meanwhile Geraint's nightmare tour continued, finishing just 2'39'' he might as well have been trying to win the stage. Even a top twenty finish is looking difficult for him now with the mountains to come.


181. KAZ MURAVYEV Dmitriy 69 ASTANA PRO TEAM 53h 18' 56'' + 02h 18' 26''

skylla

At the average speed of this year's TdF, Froome has distanced Dmitry by about 95 km.

No_Ta_Doctor

skylla wrote:

At the average speed of this year's TdF, Froome has distanced Dmitry by about 95 km.

That's a cracking stat. Keep us updated!

Bo Duke

skylla wrote:

At the average speed of this year's TdF, Froome has distanced Dmitry by about 95 km.

Good effort. That's the equivalent of stopping mid race for a long lunch with a bottle of vino, having an hour's sleep then gently riding through to the finish to meet up with the team bus just before it pulls away. LR contenders don't give up easily.

rich_pcp

Just to add that I'm loving the thread in case any more encouragement is needed. I think Dmitry's and Astana's lack of attention to detail, and concentration on marginal losses has been impressive.

No_Ta_Doctor

Update after stage 14, Geraint rides again.

The medium mountains stages are notoriously tricky for the lanterne contenders to negotiate. They may be picked by their DS to try and get in the break, which if they're unlucky might even stay away. And though time gaps to the stage winner aren't anywhere near as large as in the high mountains it's difficult to gap le autobus by much and stay within the cut if you've got a couple of Alps to ride. So the few minutes that are droppable in the medium mountains are hotly contested.

Kazza D maintained his position, but saw dangerous inroads made into his lead, with the trio of Neddy Veelers, Geraint Thomas and Jerome Cousin (cousin of 1970-80's GB ice-skater Robin Cousins) taking a huge 3'05'' bite out of his time.

Cousin in particular is looking very dangerous for the experienced Kazak, and at just 24 is already lighting up the lanterne race. He'll be hoping for a strong Bastille day performance on Mt Ventoux, where if he has the lack of form he could easily take the 1'07'' he needs to lead the competition. A nation's eyes and hopes will be on him, and if he doesn't manage to underperform it wouldn't be the first time a French rider has crumbled under the expectations piled up on the 14th July.

The time cut is unlikely to be an issue today, with a long flattish stage before the evil summit finish.

G Watch: good effort yesterday, only gave up time to two riders who weren't a serious threat. Moves into 15th, with top ten now a distinct possibility.

Top 10, reverse order:

172. AUS MEYER Cameron 187 ORICA GREENEDGE 58h 39' 57'' + 02h 07' 48''
173. AUS O'GRADY Stuart 188 ORICA GREENEDGE 58h 40' 14'' + 02h 08' 05''
174. BEL WILLEMS Frederik 29 LOTTO-BELISOL 58h 40' 39'' + 02h 08' 30''
175. NED WESTRA Lieuwe 209 VACANSOLEIL-DCM 58h 42' 01'' + 02h 09' 52''
176. NED VEELERS Tom 199 TEAM ARGOS-SHIMANO 58h 43' 44'' + 02h 11' 35''
177. KAZ BAZAYEV Assan 62 ASTANA PRO TEAM 58h 44' 43'' + 02h 12' 34''
178. CAN TUFT Svein 189 ORICA GREENEDGE 58h 46' 25'' + 02h 14' 16''
179. BEL BOECKMANS Kris 202 VACANSOLEIL-DCM 58h 47' 41'' + 02h 15' 32''
180. FRA COUSIN Jérome 53 TEAM EUROPCAR 58h 49' 28'' + 02h 17' 19''
181. KAZ MURAVYEV Dmitriy 69 ASTANA PRO TEAM 58h 50' 35'' + 02h 18' 26''

Bo Duke

Good report, you raise some valid points. We shouldn't discount Lieuwe Westra at only 9 minutes down. It's uncommon to see a big name target the LR however he seems to be the dark horse coming up on the outside rail. The mountains might provide a further attempt to jump over and find himself leading. Key stage coming up today.

No_Ta_Doctor

Bo Duke wrote:

Good report, you raise some valid points. We shouldn't discount Lieuwe Westra at only 9 minutes down. It's uncommon to see a big name target the LR however he seems to be the dark horse coming up on the outside rail. The mountains might provide a further attempt to jump over and find himself leading. Key stage coming up today.

Yes, he's looking good, and there's a hard week of racing left. The TT may be his weakness though.
Very strong presence from the Dutch, Belgians and Aussies in this edition, which does raise the possibility of some team tactics and alliances forming.

woody1545

Good to see Westra putting in a strong effort at 175th when you consider he came 2nd, 6 seconds behind last years Overall LR Loser Bradley Wiggins at Paris Nice 2012.

Anyone know what rider has the biggest fall in overall position from one year to the next?

No_Ta_Doctor

woody1545 wrote:

Good to see Westra putting in a strong effort at 175th when you consider he came 2nd, 6 seconds behind last years Overall LR Loser Bradley Wiggins at Paris Nice 2012.

Anyone know what rider has the biggest fall in overall position from one year to the next?

That's a good question for the stattos. I'm not one though!
Also: which winners have also won stages?
Has anyone ever gone all the way from yellow to win it (if not, what's the biggest drop?)

Bo Duke

Is Cadel in contention?

No_Ta_Doctor

Bo Duke wrote:

Is Cadel in contention?

Cadel is a pure amateur at this. Yes, he looks good going backwards, but that's only against the very limited opposition of the GC contenders and their mountain domestiques. He's not even managed to break out of the top twenty yet.

No_Ta_Doctor

Update after stage 15, Mt Ventoux.

Ladies and gentleman, today we must salute a true fighter. We thought he'd blown it in the TT, but he fought back, lost the seconds and minutes where it counted and on the fearsome slopes of Mont Ventoux he put in his attack.

Tufty Swine steals the lead from Kazza with a drop of a magnificent 32' 36''. Unbelievable racing. Kazza Murayev is perhaps paying the price for too much lazing around in the first two weeks, with a disappointing 27'36'' he now only holds 2nd by under a minute from fellow countryman and Astana teammate Bazza Assan.

Bastille day did hold some good knews for the French though. The disappointment of seeing Rolland slide out of the polkadots and an Englishman with two jerseys and a stage win will surely be countered by the ride of the day from Sojasun's Jonathon Hivert, who soloed to a massive 50'21'' stage victory and catapulted himself into the top 5. Compatriot Jeremy Cousins fared less well, finishing in the same group as Murayev and dropping down to fourth.

G-Watch - narrowly holds on to the top 20. It doesn't look like he can reproduce the poor form of the first week, unless he can find a ditch to fall into.

Meanwhile the Aussies will be taking some comfort in the lost of the first test in The Ashes by reminding us (Brits) that even if they're a bit rubbish at cricket, and even if we've got a Brit in yellow and polkadot, they're dominating the top twenty of the competition that counts. No fewer than five of the riders are Australian, and Tufty himself will doubtless be claimed as an honorary Aussie by his Orica teammates.

Top twenty in full, reverse order:

162. GBR THOMAS Geraint 9 SKY PROCYCLING 63h 40' 48'' + 02h 29' 05''
163. NED WESTRA Lieuwe 209 VACANSOLEIL-DCM 63h 40' 55'' + 02h 29' 12''
164. NZL HENDERSON Gregory 26 LOTTO-BELISOL 63h 41' 04'' + 02h 29' 21''
165. DEN VANDBORG Brian 19 CANNONDALE 63h 42' 31'' + 02h 30' 48''
166. AUS MEYER Cameron 187 ORICA GREENEDGE 63h 42' 38'' + 02h 30' 55''
167. AUS O'GRADY Stuart 188 ORICA GREENEDGE 63h 42' 55'' + 02h 31' 12''
168. AUS GOSS Matthew Harley 184 ORICA GREENEDGE 63h 43' 59'' + 02h 32' 16''
169. BEL ROELANDTS Jurgen 27 LOTTO-BELISOL 63h 45' 02'' + 02h 33' 19''
170. FRA GENE Yohann 55 TEAM EUROPCAR 63h 45' 24'' + 02h 33' 41''
171. AUS LANCASTER Brett Daniel 186 ORICA GREENEDGE 63h 46' 35'' + 02h 34' 52''
172. NED TIMMER Albert 198 TEAM ARGOS-SHIMANO 63h 46' 56'' + 02h 35' 13''
173. BEL WILLEMS Frederik 29 LOTTO-BELISOL 63h 47' 49'' + 02h 36' 06''
174. GER KITTEL Marcel 197 TEAM ARGOS-SHIMANO 63h 48' 41'' + 02h 36' 58''
175. BEL BOECKMANS Kris 202 VACANSOLEIL-DCM 63h 55' 43'' + 02h 44' 00''
176. NED VEELERS Tom 199 TEAM ARGOS-SHIMANO 63h 55' 54'' + 02h 44' 11''
177. FRA HIVERT Jonathan 214 SOJASUN 63h 56' 17'' + 02h 44' 34''
178. FRA COUSIN Jérome 53 TEAM EUROPCAR 63h 56' 38'' + 02h 44' 55''
179. KAZ BAZAYEV Assan 62 ASTANA PRO TEAM 63h 56' 53'' + 02h 45' 10''
180. KAZ MURAVYEV Dmitriy 69 ASTANA PRO TEAM 63h 57' 45'' + 02h 46' 02''
181. CAN TUFT Svein 189 ORICA GREENEDGE 63h 58' 35'' + 02h 46' 52'

cedargreen

The welcome presence of a Sojasun rider in the top 10 is long overdue. My money is still on Argos-Shimano; for a while they seemed to have lost some of the magic they displayed in the team time trial, but Mont Ventoux has provided just the challenge they needed. They now have three riders in the top ten and we still have the Alps to come!

No_Ta_Doctor

cedargreen wrote:

The welcome presence of a Sojasun rider in the top 10 is long overdue. My money is still on Argos-Shimano; for a while they seemed to have lost some of the magic they displayed in the team time trial, but Mont Ventoux has provided just the challenge they needed. They now have three riders in the top ten and we still have the Alps to come!

There was probably quite a bit of pre race money on Cofidis, but they've shown to be absolutely useless at both ends of the race.

adr82

Are there proper team rankings here as well? Seems like OGE would have that one sewn up right now! Although I guess Argos-Shimano are making a strong challenge...

No_Ta_Doctor

adr82 wrote:

Are there proper team rankings here as well? Seems like OGE would have that one sewn up right now! Although I guess Argos-Shimano are making a strong challenge...

There's no official ranking, no, but if someone would like to start an unofficial one.... Hint hint.

jtomes1993

Astana having a good crack at the top spot in the team rankings, slipping up slightly however and missing that elusive third counting rider

No_Ta_Doctor

No tA Doctor wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Are there proper team rankings here as well? Seems like OGE would have that one sewn up right now! Although I guess Argos-Shimano are making a strong challenge...

There's no official ranking, no, but if someone would like to start an unofficial one.... Hint hint.

Rough calculation*, based on bottom 3 riders times (but including TTT, unlike the official team comp- which is a bit weird)

Argos lead Orica by about three minutes in the race to the bottom. Don't think anyone else is that close, Astana about ten minutes back on that, I think.


*in my head, after a couple of Leffe's, accuracy not guaranteed.

No_Ta_Doctor

Jtomes1993 wrote:

Astana having a good crack at the top spot in the team rankings, slipping up slightly however and missing that elusive third counting rider

Yep. Lutsenko letting the team up.

mr_poll

No tA Doctor wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Are there proper team rankings here as well? Seems like OGE would have that one sewn up right now! Although I guess Argos-Shimano are making a strong challenge...

There's no official ranking, no, but if someone would like to start an unofficial one.... Hint hint.

Rough calculation*, based on bottom 3 riders times (but including TTT, unlike the official team comp- which is a bit weird)

Argos lead Orica by about three minutes in the race to the bottom. Don't think anyone else is that close, Astana about ten minutes back on that, I think.


*in my head, after a couple of Leffe's, accuracy not guaranteed.

If you do it by time then you are about right. However if you give each position points, starting with 20 for LR and 1 for G then the Team table looks like so:

Orica Greenedge 48
Argos-Shimano 39
Astana 37
Europcar 26
Lotto-Belisol 23
Sojasun 16
Vacansoliel-DCM 16
Cannondale 4
SKY 1

OGE - Taking the honours, with Argos and Astana fighting over podium positions.

Bo Duke

And who says cycling isn't exciting. It's frightening how one stage can alter the standings and all the good work put in over the previous days goes up in smoke. Good to see the Aussies putting in a determined effort, I reckon we could see Matthew Harley Davidson gain more places as he dances over the mountains in the coming days.

wombly_knees

Dream tour for GE. They've done everything. Now for Tuft to not cock it up in the TT.

No_Ta_Doctor

mr_poll wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Are there proper team rankings here as well? Seems like OGE would have that one sewn up right now! Although I guess Argos-Shimano are making a strong challenge...

There's no official ranking, no, but if someone would like to start an unofficial one.... Hint hint.

Rough calculation*, based on bottom 3 riders times (but including TTT, unlike the official team comp- which is a bit weird)

Argos lead Orica by about three minutes in the race to the bottom. Don't think anyone else is that close, Astana about ten minutes back on that, I think.


*in my head, after a couple of Leffe's, accuracy not guaranteed.

If you do it by time then you are about right. However if you give each position points, starting with 20 for LR and 1 for G then the Team table looks like so:

Orica Greenedge 48
Argos-Shimano 39
Astana 37
Europcar 26
Lotto-Belisol 23
Sojasun 16
Vacansoliel-DCM 16
Cannondale 4
SKY 1

OGE - Taking the honours, with Argos and Astana fighting over podium positions.

Oh good god, a team inverse green jersey?
I prefer the purity of time, but knock yourself out!

binkybike

No tA Doctor wrote:

cedargreen wrote:

The welcome presence of a Sojasun rider in the top 10 is long overdue. My money is still on Argos-Shimano; for a while they seemed to have lost some of the magic they displayed in the team time trial, but Mont Ventoux has provided just the challenge they needed. They now have three riders in the top ten and we still have the Alps to come!

There was probably quite a bit of pre race money on Cofidis, but they've shown to be absolutely useless at both ends of the race.

Confidis are going for the anonymity award though...

thiscocks

No tA Doctor wrote:

woody1545 wrote:

Good to see Westra putting in a strong effort at 175th when you consider he came 2nd, 6 seconds behind last years Overall LR Loser Bradley Wiggins at Paris Nice 2012.

Anyone know what rider has the biggest fall in overall position from one year to the next?

Also: which winners have also won stages?

Jimmy Casper nearly did it in 2006. Won stage 1 and came 135th out of 136 at the end.

edhornby

Hang on guysngals, Marcel Kittel is only 10mins adrift - this could be a Yellow wearer on stage 1 and triple stage winner to lanterne, he's got it all to play for in the alps

No_Ta_Doctor

edhornby wrote:

Hang on guysngals, Marcel Kittel is only 10mins adrift - this could be a Yellow wearer on stage 1 and triple stage winner to lanterne, he's got it all to play for in the alps

This would be spectacular. I'd certainly give him a chapeau if he did.

In fact, he's only an intermediate sprint crash away from wearing the green jersey into Paris as lanterne rouge. Greipel, Cav and Sagan pile up and out of race and he could have it all.