1x11... the future?

lawman

So finally some leaked images of Sram's new X01 groupset here -

http://www.vitalmtb.com/product/feature ... etrain,183

With it likely filtering down to even lower level groupsets in the next year or so, surely we're gonna be seeing less and less bikes being fitted with traditional double or triple drivetrains. I sure as hell ain't going back!

Is 1x11 gonna kill the double and triple like 650b is killing 26ers?

cooldad

No.

bennett_346

It won't kill double and triple off.

I would happily go 1x11 though, anyday if i was prepared to pay it. Certainly won't replace double and triple though.

supersonic

The range is still not wide enough for many. Options are good - so double and triple will stay.

JMcP92

I can see triples becoming less and less common, from what I gather the American market for triples is already pretty low, but they're still a standard on the bikes in the EU.
I'd gladly go a 1x11 at some point could I afford it, be an interesting thing. Though to be fair I'd want to try it first, apparently the range is perfectly fine, but I'd want to make up my own mind before throwing lots of money at it

Gibbo3771

Is this the internal rear cassette gear style? with the front only having 1?

I used the above on a rented bike up north, can't say I liked the range too much, one gear was way too difficult and the other was way to easy haha. I think I need more stamina to make use of it.

However I want rid of my triple FSB (Correct manufacturer? ) setup atm, I literally never use the big gear, ever.

njee20

No, just a wider range cassette (10-42 in this instance).

felix.london

If you take the lowest gear on the Sram system (say 32x42) what is the nearest equivalent ratio on a standard 2x10 system (22/36 x 11-36) ?

njee20

32/42 is roughly equivalent to 22/29 (which no cassette has, so basically it's marginally harder than the 2nd largest on an 11-36 block.

felix.london

OK - so pretty much the same as the lowest gear I've got on the 'hopper (22x32)

If the price was right and they did an 11-44 cassette at some point I could see myself making the switch to 1x11 on the AM/Enduro bike

Daz555

I wonder how long a 1x11 chain lasts? I'll wager they are like cheese.

lawman

Daz555 wrote:

I wonder how long a 1x11 chain lasts? I'll wager they are like cheese.

considering my 10 speed chains have outlasted any 9 speed chain I've ever had, I see no reason why an 11 speed shouldn't last as long. The fact it doesn't have to change chainrings which puts huge forces on the chain and I'd say there's no reason why they should be just as, if not more durable.

ilovedirt

Christ, i only just upgraded to 10sp, and it's hardly a revelation. Undoubtedly 11sp will end up the norm at some point, but I don't really get all the hype surrounding it. One more ring, big deal.
The real thing about the 11sp stuff is SRAM's chainring tooth profiles.

njee20

If the price was right and they did an 11-44 cassette at some point I could see myself making the switch to 1x11 on the AM/Enduro bike

But that's narrower than 10-42...

It's never going to be practical at entry level due to the cassette. A 10-42 manufactured cheaply (individual steel cogs rivetted together) would have to weigh 6-700g.

Whilst I agree to an extent I think 600g is reasonable, say its a 200g penalty on a normal cheap cassette (which seems excessive), you'll easily save that in the weight of steel chain rings, cheap shifters and front mech.

I wonder how long a 1x11 chain lasts? I'll wager they are like cheese.

I'll take that wager, they're narrower by 2/5 of sod all, and the chain line is better than with a multi chainring set up. Most manufacturers claim their narrower chains are stronger too, due to tighter tolerances.

bennett_346

ilovedirt wrote:

Christ, i only just upgraded to 10sp, and it's hardly a revelation. Undoubtedly 11sp will end up the norm at some point, but I don't really get all the hype surrounding it. One more ring, big deal.
The real thing about the 11sp stuff is SRAM's chainring tooth profiles.

Well currently i need a double and bash so i can have the range of gears i need. 11 speed means i could ditch the granny ring and front shifter and have virtually the same range. 1x10 doesn't give me the range i need but 1x11 does.

Chunkers1980

Eh?

What's x11 got to do with it? a x10 in 10-42 would be the same range minus 1 ratio.

lawman

1x10 is great if you have the legs to push it, otherwise it is not really practical. The extra range either end of SRAMs new 1x11 means you can drop a chainring size, to say a 32 and still have a decent top end and the 42t means you'll have a lower bottom end too. In my case I don't really need the extra cog, I manage 95% of the time with 1x10, but it would be nice to have and just cruise up a climb without getting to the top and collapsing in pain and burst lungs

It's not just the drivetrain it effects though, as the whole frame can be optimized for single ring drivetrains. Chain stays can be shorter, no more ugly as hell direct front mech mounts, less cables, less weight, one less shifter and better dropper post remote placement and its potentially cheaper because there's less to buy! Granted its not gonna be for everyone at first but for once I can't really see any drawbacks to it whatsoever. Shimano need to hurry up or they are going to lose an awful lot of business both OEM and aftermarket.

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Eh?

What's x11 got to do with it? a x10 in 10-42 would be the same range minus 1 ratio.

Well since a 10-42 10speed doesn't exist and given the extra range probably isn't that feasible as the gaps between ratios will be too great, 11 has everything to do with it. :roll:

bennett_346

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Eh?

What's x11 got to do with it? a x10 in 10-42 would be the same range minus 1 ratio.

You can't fit a 42t rear on a ten speed setup.

felix.london

njee20 wrote:

If the price was right and they did an 11-44 cassette at some point I could see myself making the switch to 1x11 on the AM/Enduro bike

But that's narrower than 10-42...

I'm all about the low gears over here and from what you say a lowest gear of 32x42 would not be low enough for me to get to the top of an Alp or two in a days riding. So I'd happily ditch the 10t sprocket for an 11t if it meant me getting a lower gear at the other end. Ya get me?

Chunkers1980

bennett_346 wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Eh?

What's x11 got to do with it? a x10 in 10-42 would be the same range minus 1 ratio.

You can't fit a 42t rear on a ten speed setup.

Why can't you? Because it is not possible or because it is not made?

bennett_346

You can buy those add on 42t things but you still don't get the benefit of the new sram chainring tooth profile etc.

lawman

felix.london wrote:

njee20 wrote:

If the price was right and they did an 11-44 cassette at some point I could see myself making the switch to 1x11 on the AM/Enduro bike

But that's narrower than 10-42...

I'm all about the low gears over here and from what you say a lowest gear of 32x42 would not be low enough for me to get to the top of an Alp or two in a days riding. So I'd happily ditch the 10t sprocket for an 11t if it meant me getting a lower gear at the other end. Ya get me?

Why not drop to a 30t with 10-42 rather than 32 and 11-44? I'd dare say the 30t would still have the better range, can't be bothered to actually work it though.

mcnultycop

bennett_346 wrote:

You can buy those add on 42t things but you still don't get the benefit of the new sram chainring tooth profile etc.

That General Lee one? I think it is only 40t from what I have seen.

bennett_346

Are they? Ah well that answers Chunkers question then.

Chunkers1980 wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Eh?

What's x11 got to do with it? a x10 in 10-42 would be the same range minus 1 ratio.

You can't fit a 42t rear on a ten speed setup.

Why can't you? Because it is not possible or because it is not made?

Take your pick, the end result is the same.

njee20

I'm all about the low gears over here and from what you say a lowest gear of 32x42 would not be low enough for me to get to the top of an Alp or two in a days riding. So I'd happily ditch the 10t sprocket for an 11t if it meant me getting a lower gear at the other end. Ya get me?

Because as Lawman accurate observes, a smaller chain ring would give a wider range - ie a 32t ring with 11-44 would be a worse choice than a 30 (or 28t) with 10-42.

Chunkers1980

It all in the percentages, 10-11 is 10 more, 10 percent more than 42 would need 46.2. So one tooth ar the bottom for the same percent change in gear means 4.2 at the top.

felix.london

Chunkers1980 wrote:

It all in the percentages, 10-11 is 10 more, 10 percent more than 42 would need 46.2. So one tooth ar the bottom for the same percent change in gear means 4.2 at the top.

Yeah - I get ya. So just a smaller chain ring would achieve the same results...maths was never my strong point :oops:

felix.london

And do these SRAM 11sp cassettes fit normal 135mm frames?

supersonic

I wonder if Shimano will redo its Capreo system?



This has a 9t sprocket. Have seen a few modified versions.

Chunkers1980

Yes same width overall, thinner gaps.

They require a different freehub to conventional as 10t is smaller in circumferance a than standard freehub so will not fit. EDIT: as similar SS's picture above.

lawman

IIRC spesh used the capreo free hub when the experimented with the microdrive system on the demo using a 9t bottom cog on a 7speed cassette. I also seem to remember there being a 10 speed 9-36 setup that spesh were also trying for all mountain type riders, again using capreo. I'm sure shimano have the tech and know how to do it, but they seem to be reacting very slowly to what is IMO a huge market share they could be losing.