What are the advantages of Road bike cleats over MTB ones

2

Comments

  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    edited June 2013
    Yes and what makes SL better to be the default road pedal except we are told they are road pedals? They both do the same job.

    The most valid reasons so far seem to be:
    Hot spots (minority of people)
    #Rule 18
    Weight (dependent on model)

    When I'm feeling flush I'll probably replace my SLs with SPD + Bont XC combo, failing to see any difference.
  • markhewitt1978
    markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    I use SPD on my road bike and I do suffer from the ball of my right foot getting hot and my little toe getting squashed, but I think that's from ill fitting Aldi shoes more than the pedals.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    lotus49 wrote:
    In phrasing your comment the way you have, you are assuming that SPDs should be the default and then, if your needs are different, you might try SPD-SLs.

    I think a much more obvious default position is that you use the ones designed for what you are doing ie SPD-SLs for pure road use and SPDs for MTBs or commuting.

    They're all just names for kit ... they're not specific to certain disciplines are they ... SPDs work fine on a roadbike - just the same as SPD-SLs do.

    Personally I think you should think about what you want first - ie style of shoe, usage, then select the kit for that job.

    For me, mainly as a commuter its SPD - the cleats last a long time and I can walk about comfortably in the shoes. SPD pedals on both bikes and only the one pair of shoes. Would I change to SPD-SLs? I looked at doing so when I bought the CX (SPDs on CX, SLs on the RB), but couldn't justify the expense of new shoes as well as pedals ... especially as there was no gains to be had (other than "looking more pro" - which I'll never look anyway!)
  • swede54
    swede54 Posts: 20
    Lots of road shoes have vents in the bottom which is fine when its warm but you tend to need overshoes much sooner when the weather starts to change.
  • thecrofter
    thecrofter Posts: 734
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    thecrofter wrote:
    retrobike007 wrote:
    Rule #34 people!!!!

    That is all LOL ;-)

    I'm just amazed and disappointed that it took 'til the bottom of the page for sanity to enter the thread. MTB stuff on a road bike FFS!!! :D

    The Velominati represent sanity now, do they? :lol:

    If it didn't have 'MTB' in the name, you wouldn't be questioning.
    I think the judgement of sanity is subjective, find me a truly sane person who can determine if any of us are sane or not. I've often been called insane for going out and cycling 100 miles when there's perfectly good public transport around.

    Are we going off topic here?

    See, I question everything.

    My opinion of the Velominati (which I'm sure puts me in breach of Rule 1 and precludes me from membership) is it's a bit of fun
    You've no won the Big Cup since 1902!
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    TheFD wrote:
    I have tried both. I wear spd-sl. I find them better for power transfer.

    Care to prove that? ;)

    Care you prove all of the 'stuff' that you post on here Simon?
    Your average speed of 25mph?
    No point in having better brakes than standard tektro unless you are doing alpine descents?
    A Halfords MTB will be just as fast as a road bike over a 10mile TT?
    Etc. etc.

    NO? I though not :wink:

    Honestly, your fixation with the above continues to baffle me (I don't see why I'd need to prove #1 any more than you'd need to prove the completion of a 60 mile ride; it's an unremarkable feat), but suffice to say that this is the key point here, and therefore it's worth raising.
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    TheFD wrote:
    I have tried both. I wear spd-sl. I find them better for power transfer.

    Care to prove that? ;)

    Care you prove all of the 'stuff' that you post on here Simon?
    Your average speed of 25mph?
    No point in having better brakes than standard tektro unless you are doing alpine descents?
    A Halfords MTB will be just as fast as a road bike over a 10mile TT?
    Etc. etc.

    NO? I though not :wink:

    Honestly, your fixation with the above continues to baffle me (I don't see why I'd need to prove #1 any more than you'd need to prove the completion of a 60 mile ride; it's an unremarkable feat), but suffice to say that this is the key point here, and therefore it's worth raising.

    Leaving aside my fixation with your fantastic average speed and your apparent apathy towards turning pro I ask you the following....

    Why is it when TheFD posts a subjective opinion you expect proof but when someone asks the same of you you are baffled???

    Are you an MP Simon? :mrgreen:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • petemadoc
    petemadoc Posts: 2,331
    I use road pedals (speed play) on my summer bike and SPD on my winter bike.

    Road pedals are more secure when used in anger, sprinting, hard efforts out of the saddle. I have 100% confidence when using them.

    SPD are better for walking in
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    TheFD wrote:
    I have tried both. I wear spd-sl. I find them better for power transfer.

    Care to prove that? ;)

    Care you prove all of the 'stuff' that you post on here Simon?
    Your average speed of 25mph?
    No point in having better brakes than standard tektro unless you are doing alpine descents?
    A Halfords MTB will be just as fast as a road bike over a 10mile TT?
    Etc. etc.

    NO? I though not :wink:

    Honestly, your fixation with the above continues to baffle me (I don't see why I'd need to prove #1 any more than you'd need to prove the completion of a 60 mile ride; it's an unremarkable feat), but suffice to say that this is the key point here, and therefore it's worth raising.

    Leaving aside my fixation with your fantastic average speed and your apparent apathy towards turning pro I ask you the following....

    Why is it when TheFD posts a subjective opinion you expect proof but when someone asks the same of you you are baffled???

    Are you an MP Simon? :mrgreen:

    A very credible and very modest average speed on the one, and a non-subjective opinion on the other: it simply isn't true that the pedals you use will make you more efficient/transfer power more effectively. More comfortable, definitely, but for everyone who says that SLs are so much more comfortable than SPDs is another who prefers Speedplay to both. THAT'S subjective. ;)
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Don't forget that Simon achieves these feats on his 12kg shopper :mrgreen:
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    At last weigh-in, using the bathroom scales, the main bike came in at 12kg 400g. At some point I'll weigh the wheels to see how much I'd save by upgrading to 700c. I don't even know how much the 'shopper' weighs, though the steel rims look cool. :lol:
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    TheFD wrote:
    I have tried both. I wear spd-sl. I find them better for power transfer.

    Care to prove that? ;)

    Care you prove all of the 'stuff' that you post on here Simon?
    Your average speed of 25mph?
    No point in having better brakes than standard tektro unless you are doing alpine descents?
    A Halfords MTB will be just as fast as a road bike over a 10mile TT?
    Etc. etc.

    NO? I though not :wink:

    Honestly, your fixation with the above continues to baffle me (I don't see why I'd need to prove #1 any more than you'd need to prove the completion of a 60 mile ride; it's an unremarkable feat), but suffice to say that this is the key point here, and therefore it's worth raising.

    Leaving aside my fixation with your fantastic average speed and your apparent apathy towards turning pro I ask you the following....

    Why is it when TheFD posts a subjective opinion you expect proof but when someone asks the same of you you are baffled???

    Are you an MP Simon? :mrgreen:

    A very credible and very modest average speed on the one, and a non-subjective opinion on the other: it simply isn't true that the pedals you use will make you more efficient/transfer power more effectively. More comfortable, definitely, but for everyone who says that SLs are so much more comfortable than SPDs is another who prefers Speedplay to both. THAT'S subjective. ;)

    A true politicians answer :mrgreen:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    ...says the honourable member as he pointedly declines to offer counterargument... ;)
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    ...says the honourable member as he pointedly declines to offer counterargument... ;)

    Their is nothing to argue. TheFD put forward a subjective opinion. You ask for proof.
    I ask you to prove some of of your more outlandish statements (leaving aside your "average" speed) but once again you ignore this request. Preferring instead to continue your claims to your extraordinary "very modest average" speed whilst also offering up counter arguments to TheFD's subjective opinion.

    Care you prove all of the 'stuff' that you post on here Simon?
    No point in having better brakes than standard tektro unless you are doing alpine descents?
    A Halfords MTB will be just as fast as a road bike over a 10mile TT?
    Etc. etc.


    Probably best if you either answer my question directly or draw a line under it Simon as we are in danger of going off topic here :D
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    ...says the honourable member as he pointedly declines to offer counterargument... ;)

    Their is nothing to argue. TheFD put forward a subjective opinion. You ask for proof.
    I ask you to prove some of of your more outlandish statements (leaving aside your "average" speed) but once again you ignore this request. Preferring instead to continue your claims to your extraordinary "very modest average" speed whilst also offering up counter arguments to TheFD's subjective opinion.

    Care you prove all of the 'stuff' that you post on here Simon?
    No point in having better brakes than standard tektro unless you are doing alpine descents?
    A Halfords MTB will be just as fast as a road bike over a 10mile TT?
    Etc. etc.

    If you read the post that that comment is part of, you will realise that it is simply a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that there is widespread misconception about improved power transfer or greater efficiency with 'road' branded pedals. People make statements like that as if they are given. Again, I am referring to performance. I am NOT referring to user comfort.

    The average speed thing continues to baffle me; whilst I'm still surprised you don't question people on their completion of 60 mile rides (and other unremarkable feats), I'd recommend you don't go to any club 10s as you might faint.

    The other comments are out of context and I can't remember exactly what was said, but suffice to say that the Tektro deep drops that I use on my main bike (hence my point of reference) work very well, and can provide a hard stop with good stopping distance, whether at 20mph, 30mph, 40mph or more. They may not provide the responsiveness and performance of higher class callipers, but for the most basic function they suffice. The key point is that technique is of greatest importance.
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    The average speed thing continues to baffle me.

    Me Too :mrgreen:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • feemackenzie
    feemackenzie Posts: 130
    NapoleonD wrote:
    You get a wider base with road bike cleats, less hot spots, more even spread of force.

    Agree.
    I started on a road bike in January this year and by February had replaced MTB cleats and shoes with Look Road pedals, etc. The spread of force stopped me suffering numb toes. Yes, I look like a penguin but I have never fallen over once (either on the bike or in ASDA).

    You will not look back.
    Felt z95 - loving my first road bike
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    Sounds like you got better shoes..
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,205
    I use both systems - SPD on my winter/commuter and SPD-SL on my summer road bike and TT.

    I actually used SPD all of last year on my TT and set pretty good times using it (25:59 over 10). I've also done many long rides (>70 miles) on my winter bike and I can't say they have given me hot spots or slowed me down.

    So the performance difference is pretty negligible.

    But I still use SPD-SL on my nice bikes. It looks and feels better - the subjective "more stable platform, better power transfer" that my Bryton's stats don't pick up. Its easy to belittle but I want to get the most enjoyment out of my rides.

    I wouldn't use anything else on my commuter because the double sided engagement, long cleat life and ease of walking come into their own. Next time I go touring I'll probably use SPDs for the same reason.

    Either system works fine on a road bike. It simply hinges on whether you can live with the drawbacks of the SLs for the marginal improvements they bring.
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    super_davo wrote:
    I use both systems - SPD on my winter/commuter and SPD-SL on my summer road bike and TT.

    I actually used SPD all of last year on my TT and set pretty good times using it (25:59 over 10). I've also done many long rides (>70 miles) on my winter bike and I can't say they have given me hot spots or slowed me down.

    So the performance difference is pretty negligible.

    But I still use SPD-SL on my nice bikes. It looks and feels better - the subjective "more stable platform, better power transfer" that my Bryton's stats don't pick up. Its easy to belittle but I want to get the most enjoyment out of my rides.

    I wouldn't use anything else on my commuter because the double sided engagement, long cleat life and ease of walking come into their own. Next time I go touring I'll probably use SPDs for the same reason.

    Either system works fine on a road bike. It simply hinges on whether you can live with the drawbacks of the SLs for the marginal improvements they bring.

    I think you've pretty well nailed it here. The bottom line is that it's subjective - there are quantifiable benefits like these to several of the systems, and yet there are people who aren't at all bothered about them - but the simple fact about SPDs is that the cleat is designed to recess, and necessarily smaller. Because of the way it's designed, it can wobble around a bit. It still works. I don't know why anyone thinks that MTBers aren't bothered about having decent pedals and it's only road cyclists that are. :mrgreen:
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    The bottom line is that it's subjective


    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Care to prove that? ;)


    :lol:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Foot comfort and output aren't the same thing. It's not difficult... :lol:
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Foot comfort and output aren't the same thing. It's not difficult... :lol:


    But are the two not linked? :wink:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    If you get 'hot spots' with SPD, try SPD with a cage - I have never had a 'hot spot' in my life and have ridden thousands of miles in floppy shoes (Northwave Mission). I actually didnt realise how floppy they were until I got some Shimano winter boots and rode only with them for 3-4 months. The floppiness doesnt seem to slow me down much or cause any discomfort though.

    I can understand why M520s with floppy shoes wouldnt work though because they dont support much of your foot. Thats just a bad choice of combination though. Rigid soles and/or pedals with a cage should not cause any discomfort.
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Foot comfort and output aren't the same thing. It's not difficult... :lol:


    But are the two not linked? :wink:

    About as much as a Rapha jersey rather than a DHB one, or a particularly scrumptious bowl of porridge. The simple fact is that if you are a road cyclist and the system you find most comfortable is SPD, you aren't losing out in performance. Simples. ;)
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Foot comfort and output aren't the same thing. It's not difficult... :lol:


    But are the two not linked? :wink:

    About as much as a Rapha jersey rather than a DHB one, or a particularly scrumptious bowl of porridge. The simple fact is that if you are a road cyclist and the system you find most comfortable is SPD, you aren't losing out in performance. Simples. ;)

    And if your feet are uncomfortable/painful it's very likely that you will be producing less power. Simples :wink::wink::wink:
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    Exactly. So use whichever system is most comfortable.
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016
  • charlie_potatoes
    charlie_potatoes Posts: 1,921
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    TheFD wrote:
    I have tried both. I wear spd-sl. I find them better for power transfer.

    Care to prove that? ;)
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:

    And if your feet are uncomfortable/painful it's very likely that you will be producing less power. Simples :wink::wink::wink:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Exactly. So use whichever system is most comfortable.

    Well you got there in the end. :wink:

    My work here is done. Now I think I'll have that......
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    particularly scrumptious bowl of porridge.
    :)

    Happy Cycling.
    "You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul
  • thefd
    thefd Posts: 1,021
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    TheFD wrote:
    I have tried both. I wear spd-sl. I find them better for power transfer.

    Care to prove that? ;)
    Charlie Potatoes wrote:

    And if your feet are uncomfortable/painful it's very likely that you will be producing less power. Simples :wink::wink::wink:
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    Exactly. So use whichever system is most comfortable.

    Well you got there in the end. :wink:

    My work here is done. Now I think I'll have that......
    Simon Masterson wrote:
    particularly scrumptious bowl of porridge.
    :)

    Happy Cycling.
    Well said Charlie!

    Please just leave it there Simon!
    2017 - Caadx
    2016 - Cervelo R3
    2013 - R872
    2010 - Spesh Tarmac
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    apreading wrote:
    Rigid soles and/or pedals with a cage should not cause any discomfort.

    Certainly that would match my experience. I use the 'nuclear holocaust-proof' edition - the M545 - which whilst a bit chunky, provides both double-sided entry and a platform (which can be used with ordinary shoes, if need be). I've never experienced any notable discomfort, and my current shoes aren't the stiffest.
    Retro(ish) TT 2017-
    Fixed TT 2015-2016

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