Someone convince me...

Schoie81

Bought a MTB about 2 years ago (first bike since I was a teenager - a long time ago!) and last month bought my first ever road bike. Both of these bikes came with toe clips/cages on the pedals. Didn't like the idea of having my feet fastned in, but thought i'd give it a go. I recall these lasted about a week on the MTB - second ride out I needed to take my foot out and then had to stop to get it back in the cage as the weight of the cage just made the pedal rotate so the cage was on the bottom - couldn't get it to stay the right way around whlist pedalling. Rode the rest of the ride with the pedals upside down and then took the cages off when I got home - filed them in the bin...

Picked up the road bike and thought I'd give the cages a chance again, got to the end of my road and gave up and took them off - just couldn't cope with the idea of being fastened in and had the same 'pedal rotating' problem... When I collected my bike, the guy in the shop asked if there was anything else I needed and said "I guess you'll be wanting to swap the pedals for some clip-in ones". I think he spotted the look of fear on my face when I responded "er... no not really...".

I have a real uneasiness of having my feet clipped on to the pedals and I was almost in a state of panic with the toe cages - just the thought of not being able to get my feet off the pedals if I want to. (i'm not yet that confident on the road bike - bit wobbly and trying to get used to how much grip there is when cornering on the slick skinny tyres and how much stopping power there are in the brakes (compared to the hydraulic discs on my MTB which nearly shoot my off the saddle if I break hard), I'm pretty sure this is just a mental thing, realistically, I cycled 15miles last Saturday and never took my foot off the pedals until I got back home anyway - so why am I so bothered about being able to??

My boss has SPDs and keeps telling me I've nothing to worry about. Almost everyone on here speaks of clip-in pedals as if its just 'the norm'. So what is all the fuss about? Why are they so much better than normal pedals? I'm quite happy as I am, so should I just ignore everyone and carry on, or will it be a case of once I try them, i'll wonder what I ever worried about? And be overwhelmed by the benefits of them? Will it do me good to conquer my fear?

Then there's the cost. Can anyone suggest retailers where I can look and recommendations for some value-for-money pedals and shoes which aren't a load of rubbish, but that wont break the bank (the missus is still coming to terms with the bike spend...). Would be ideal if I could try my boss's, just to see what I think before I take the plunge and buy some of my own, but he's got women's sized feet, so no chance of that.

owenlars

Whatever works best for you is correct. If you've tried it and don't like it then don't use it. Don't let anyone else browbeat you into doing something that doesn't suit you. But......do try it before rejecting it.

Also read this set of posts.

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12917793&p=18273735#p18273735

slowbike

flats vs everything else.
Many many many years ago - I was on my second roadbike ever (ok, it was a 10 speed racer) with flat pedals - on my way back home I turned a junction that had a little climb afterwards, accelerated up the hill, pushing hard and my right foot slipped off the pedal, through the front wheel and was taken up into the forks - I went over the top and landed in a heap in the road.
The forks were knackered and I had to walk home - bruised ...

I was bluddy lucky there wasn't a car close behind or overtaking me - I wouldn't be here now.

Since then I've always had cages and then in the last 2 years - SPDs.

Using cages is quite simple - you put your foot over the inverted pedal, drag back then when the cage is at the top you push your foot forwards again, but with no downward force. Do that a few times and you'll get the hang of it fairly quickly. I'd not worry too much about the straps either - they do help once you start putting effort in all around, but the main use of the cage (for me) was to stop your foot from slipping off the front.
Getting your feet out is quite simple - just pull back first .. it helps if you haven't got hiking boots on - something flat is best.

Clips do seem to help a bit more (over cages) by keeping your foot in constant contact with the pedal and allows you to pull hard up the backstroke when you need that little extra umph. Clipping out is even simpler - just move your heal out and your foot will follow.

Do you need them? No - although I'd at least have cages for the reasons stated above - that said - for "family rides" I ride a CX with flat converters on ...

simona75

I'd definitely give SPDs or similar a go, I think everyone goes through a bit of uncertainty but after a few rides the fear evaporates and it seems very natural. Clipping in and out will be effortless apart from on two occasions where it is guaranteed to go wrong everytime.... a) when trying to get away quickly from lights and b) when girls are watching

Ride hard

In answer to your question, clip-less pedals and toe clips are totally different things and experiences.

After 4 years cycling I went from flat pedals to clip-less last year with a brief liaison with toe clips in between. I only had them on for about a week after buying some new pedals for my previous bike, but I too found the toe clips to rotate (the weight of the toe clip weighs the pedal down) and felt very nervous when trying to remove my foot when stopping because it was being held in too securely and difficult to pull out. My SPDs are totally different experience and I got used to them on the first ride without even practicing clipping in and out beforehand. The general advantages of clip-less regardless of the system are better power transfer and more secure pedaling in the wet/or rough terrain (my feet were all over the place when I had normal flat pedals). There's also pointers to things like less likelihood of injury if you have a proper bike fit.

Pedals whether flat or clip-less are a personal thing, so it needs to suit the amount of riding you do. I wouldn't say its worth the investment if you're only going down to the shops and back every couple of days, but for longer commutes and weekend rides then it might just be the ticket.

If you want to go full roadie then most people go for SPD SLs which you can get for £20+, but I went for SPDs as I needed shoes I could walk in, and they came in at £16. Clip-less are also practical as you can get either one sided or double sided to suit your needs. Re shoes, Wiggle's DHB shoes get a good rep and Decathlon also make some cost effective shoes - although reviews are hard to find.

navrig

The other thing to factor in is the cost of shoes as well as pedals. Pedals could cost you anything from £25 upwards as a rough estimate. You need to allow at least £50 for suitable shoes and unless you go for SPDs you should allow say another £10 per year or per 6 months for the cleats, depending on how far you walk in your shoes.

Don't buy your shoes on line. Go to a shop and get the right size first time. Some makes are quite narrow.

That said I wouldn't go back to flats.

Schoie81

Right, firstly my useage. About half and half commuting and riding for pleasure. My commute is a minimum of 13miles (rural - so little or no stopping and starting, traffics lights etc..) and most of my pleasure riding is going to be long distance (when i'm fit enough!). Occasionally i'll use it to actually get somewhere, rather than just an out-and-back from home, but we'd still be talking some distance, wouldn't often bother cycling if its only a mile or two.

Had a quick look at the equipment and first-off, its not as expensive as I imagined it to be (or at least it doesn't have to be). First thought was that i'd need a shoe I could also walk in, but when I stopped and thought about it, I wouldn't need to walk on my out-and-back rides, I change my shoes at work anyway so wouldn't need to walk when I commute and on the occsaions I cycle to get somewhere, its usually a case of we're going somewhere as a family, and I take the bike, they go in the car, so they could bring me a change of shoes, so maybe SPD-SLs would be best for me? Are SPD-SLs better than normal SPDs? Are they as easy to use, or as a 'nervous novice', would standard SPDs be the better ones to try?

Slowbike, never personally had my foot slip off the pedal properly - just one time on my MTB when the chain came off and all i got was a grazed calf when the pedal went full circle and smacked me on the back of the leg, but by the sounds of it, it'd be worth me taking steps to avoid it ever happening!! May try putting the cages back on, but leave the straps off for a bit. My brain did grasp the concept of turning the pedal to get my foot back in the cage - but just didn't transfer it to my foot very well - really struggled to do it!!

Navrig - thanks for the advice - you say replacement cleats if I don't get SPDs - is that because of the wear when walking on SPD-SL cleats?? And I understand about the shoes - might have a look online first, but I never like the idea of buying any pair of shoes without trying them on first - I try loads in shops before finding one that fits properly so wouldn't expect to be able to buy online and them be right if I hadn't tried them on first.

JayKosta

The clip-in pedals & cleats are much easier to use for most people than the toe-clip style. But they can be troublesome if too much dirt gets into the mechanism.

I continue to use my old style toe-clips & straps, but one of my bikes has plain flat pedals. With the flat pedals I use regular street shoes that have a soft rubber sole, and that works fine for me.

For 'performance' riding, using a clip pedal will give better results because you can do a slight amount of 'pull-up' or 'unweighting' on the up-stroke, and push forward/back at the top & bottom. It is also possible to spin faster with clips.

If maximum performance is not required, then flat pedals are fine when suitable shoes are used.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA

hatch87

I didn't realize how much I used the clipless until the other day I went without. My foot kept slipping as I was pushing forward and my heel kept coming up as I tried to pull up. I didn't even realize I pulled up on my strokes!

Schoie81

JayKosta - guess i'm somewhere down the middle - i'm not ever aiming to be the next Wiggo, but i'm not out admiring the scenery too much either. Basically I ride for the pleasure of it, but to get where i'm going as quickly as I can, and if I can change something that will make the hills easier or the flats quicker, then I'm interested at least...

slowbike

Schoie81 wrote:

JayKosta - guess i'm somewhere down the middle - i'm not ever aiming to be the next Wiggo, but i'm not out admiring the scenery too much either. Basically I ride for the pleasure of it, but to get where i'm going as quickly as I can, and if I can change something that will make the hills easier or the flats quicker, then I'm interested at least...

Sounds like you're changing your pedals then! ...

Now you need to decide what type ...

tonycar

Hi slowbike..... had a roadbike about 3 months now, used to do alot of touring years ago with cages i think the trick is is not to have them to tight and to where smooth shoe`s (no laces) so you dont get your feet snagged trying to slip your foot out. as mentioned i now have a roadbike and purchased spd-sl & road shoes definitely better than cages and dont take long to get used to (i personally would recommend using clip-ins) as far as buying online if you purchase online you can always send back if you get the size wrong shoe for replacement.

the links below are what im setup with

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-PD-R5 ... 257cae333f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Shimano-SM-SH ... 564d513d66

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370697380206? ... 1439.l2649

Schoie81

Tonycar - how do you find the muddyfox shoes? I always get the feeling muddyfox stuff is a bit 'cheap' but i'm not sure where that opinion comes from? Reviews i've seen of their stuff tend to be generally ok...

slowbike

Muddyfox gloves were cheap - didn't fit very well either ... ditched them and have a "proper pair" now ...

For things like shoes I don't think there is any shortcut to actually trying a pair on ... once you've found a sort that fits then you're set up ...

markhewitt1978

Schoie81 wrote:

My boss has SPDs and keeps telling me I've nothing to worry about. Almost everyone on here speaks of clip-in pedals as if its just 'the norm'.

Because they are, on road bikes at least, it's a very unusual road bike / road biker who doesn't use clip in pedals & shoes of some sort.

You seem to be basing your views on pedals on the toe cage type pedals, which have little to do with the 'clipless' systems which are very easy to get in and out of by just twisting your foot.

tonycar

Schoie81 wrote:

Tonycar - how do you find the muddyfox shoes? I always get the feeling muddyfox stuff is a bit 'cheap' but i'm not sure where that opinion comes from? Reviews i've seen of their stuff tend to be generally ok...

hi....i was a bit reluctant at first to purchase these because i went into sportsdirect to look at there shoes and the road shoes were rubbish the soles were really bendy being plastic/fibreglass or something. but this is there online site and have more variety. still a bit reluctant i purchased these, they arrived the next day and im as pleased as punch, very stiff carbon sole with rachet system + velcro straps as well, very comfortable, iv seen a number of road shoes in various shops since at a lot dearer price and i would say the quality of my shoes are on par possibly even better than many iv seen. i would definitely recommend

simon_masterson

Ride hard wrote:

The general advantages of clip-less regardless of the system are better power transfer.

Nope.

Speaking (unlike most on here) as a seasoned user of proper clips and straps, they are different (including their own advantages), but I wouldn't recommend you try clipless if you can't handle clips and straps. Once mastered, they are very easy to use; you'll be tightening and loosening (if you want to) and flipping in no time. It's really not hard. Single-sided clipless pedals have to be flipped as well, and you can't stick your foot in anywhere on the crank's rotation with clipless like you can with clips and straps. I miss it sometimes.

The reasoning is simple: if you loosen your straps all the way (assuming your clips and straps are the right size) then you can simply withdraw your foot; with clipless pedals you must twist, which is a little less natural. Granted, a very loose SPD pedal will release very easily, however.

I'd get some SPDs (particularly as the pedals are mostly double-sided). Loosen them all the way. Spend some time with your clips and straps beforehand though, and get used to having your foot 'attached', and engaging and disengaging. You will find clipless pedals much easier if you do.

If you did find yourself getting into clips and straps though, some nice steel clips (eg. Christophe, MKS) and platforms (MKS are apparently very nice), and some leather straps, would make a very nice setup indeed. One thing that clipless pedals decidedly lack is the secure feeling of a leather strap. I don't miss the loss of circulation on cold days, though.

Schoie81

Markthewitt - I don't really have anything else to base it on at the moment. Its just the thought of having my foot physical attached to the pedal - however easy it is 'unattach' it. I realise its probably an irrational thought, but that doesn't stop me thinking it!!

Simon - oh go away!! People were just starting to talk me into SPDs and then you turn up singing the praises of cages and straps!! I've picked up on the one-side clip-in systems still needing to be flipped (but are they as prone to automatically turning upside like the front end weight of toe clips do..?) and so I think i've put myself off SPD-SLs for that reason - edging towards trying SPDs.

My next step, I'm gonna ask my boss to bring in his shoes. I wont be able to try them on me, but at least I can attach them to the pedals and see for myself how they clip in and clip out and maybe that'll help convince me how easy they are to use!?!

Anonymous

Have not read the whole thread, but just get some Crank Brothers eggbeater pedals (Candy 1's look better on a road bike than the bare ones) and some stiff (carbon or nylon soled) MTB shoes.

They are a dodle to clip in and out of (the basic ones are four sided so mega easy), give you the power transfer you need, and you can walk in them.

simon_masterson

Schoie81 wrote:

Simon - oh go away!! People were just starting to talk me into SPDs and then you turn up singing the praises of cages and straps!! I've picked up on the one-side clip-in systems still needing to be flipped (but are they as prone to automatically turning upside like the front end weight of toe clips do..?) and so I think i've put myself off SPD-SLs for that reason - edging towards trying SPDs.

I can't help it.

Seriously though, the SPD system is brilliant. I cannot deny that it is easier to use. I have the Shimano M545 pedals on my main bike, which is serving primary commuting duty at the moment. They are twice as heavy as the alternatives and look incongruous (and able to withstand a nuclear holocaust), but they are double-sided with a big platform (big enough to rest the foot on in traffic, for example, and usable with ordinary shoes), but extremely practical for a working bike. I don't see them all that often, but I'd recommend them. Other than that, any of the standard double-sided MTB pedals would work really well. Get a pair of shoes that fits and have at it...

Anonymous

Sorry SM, but not sure thats a great idea for the OP and think the eggbeaters are the way to go.

1/ The Shimano's are not as easy to clip in/out of as the eggbeaters.
2/ They only have one side to clip into so you have to orientate the pedal first, which the OP has said is an issue. The eggbeaters have four sides and this virtually eliminates the need to orientate them at all.
3/ Riding with (having the option of) flats some of the time is not going to build the OP's confidence in clipping in.

eggbeaters are simple and work. I see people struggling with Shimano's all the time. For someone in the OP's situation eggbeaters are the way forward.

You just aim your foot at them and they are in, twist a little and they are out.
There are no issues with unclipping other than remembering to do it. This quickly becomes second nature if you use them every ride, but is never going to happen if you have to think about which shoes/side of the pedal you are using that day.

MrSweary

I use these with Specialized BG Comp shoes which are pretty stiff but come in at £100 - mainly because I have a short walk from where I park the bike to where I work and wanted some more practical shoes for leisure riding.

http://www.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/pedals/mountain/product.-code-PD-M530.-type-.pd_mountain.html

The commute is just over 13 miles each way and I've found them to be absolutely faultless. They are very very easy to clip in and out of and the platform allows me to keep pedalling almost as normal if I don't clip in first time off the lights. I can even yank my foot out directly if I'm really in a spot. Riding on flats feels scary now!

If you accept that you may topple over at some point (right of passage!) you won't want to go back to flats.

slowbike

Sorry carb - SPDs can be double sided - and I've never had an issue with needing to orientate the pedal when clipping in.
Just about any doublesided pedal will be the same.

But the OP needs to get over this orientating the pedal thing as well as the thought of being physically attached to the bike. All I would say is that testing the clipping in and out by hand will seem very hard - your leg is much stronger and it'll be easy (well, easier!).

Anonymous

Slowbike wrote:

Sorry carb - SPDs can be double sided - and I've never had an issue with needing to orientate the pedal when clipping in.
Just about any doublesided pedal will be the same.

I should have quoted the post above that I was referring to as SM was talking about the half SPD, half flat Shimano pedals, not the normal double sided ones.
I have never used them but guessing you must have to orientate before clipping in.

The eggbeaters have four sides, this and their very simple design make them far easier to get into/out of than even the double sided shimano's IMO

Schoie81

Well like the decent bloke he is, the gaffa has turned up with his shoes. Had a quick look at how they clip in and out and after thinking to myself "i'll have to get used to taking my foot off the pedal sideways", I stopped and thought about it, and... is it possible to do anything else?? @Slowbike - They don't fit me comforatbly, but I can just get his shoes on, so gonna try them on later and try clipping in and out with my feet properly. Maybe even venture down the road on his bike to see how I get on (think we've got some bubble wrap somewhere... )

I think i'm being converted....

Carbonator - the pedals SM mentioned aren't one sided - they don't have clip-in system and a flat pedal the other, so no 'flipping over' issues. They have a normal double-sided spd fitting in the middle, surrounded by a cage/platform so they can also be used (on both sides) with normal shoes. I think these are going to be perfect for me as I occasionally go out with my lad (and will do with my daughter when she's old enough to go on the roads - she needs to lose the stabilisers first, so she's got more problems than me!!) and when on the road I follow him close behind - he has a tendancy to stop suddenly and without any warning so I think being able to use the pedals in normal shoes will be useful for this, because otherwise i'll be forever clipping in and out. And when i'm with him it'll always be in dry weather and at low speed, so its not like i'll need to be clipped in. Also like the idea of being able to just pick the bike up and nip up the road without having to go and change my shoes. But don't worry, if i'm making the change, i'll do it properly, so for my commute and bike rides, it'll always be clipped in if I go for it - no wimping out just because i've got a flat platform I can use!

@Simon - I assume the cage/platform doesn't impede clipping out at all, so they're just as easy to use as normal spd pedals?

@Carbonator - I think at the moment the eggbeaters are a little too much money for me, although I can see with four sides they'll be easier, and that does appeal. My budget is quite low and I think i'd rather spend a little extra on some decent shoes.

Anonymous

OK, I stand corrected, have not seen those. Will have to take a look. Guess the cleat is exposed on the shoe then.

I have bought eggbeaters for £20, but that does not help if you truly need to not change shoes sometimes.

Still feel the eggbeaters are your best option. The cleat is recessed in the shoe so walking is not an issue which may be better for you if the others are exposed.
I think you are over 'egging' the difficulty of clipping in/out in them but if you get on with the Shimano's then fine, problem solved. It just seemed as though you needed something easier from your original post.

Anonymous

I had some plastic covers for my original eggbeaters to turn them into flats.
They were pretty rubbish (I think they are supplied for legal reasons if bike comes delivered with them) but I used a couple of times when out with daughter so I could wear normal shoes.

It is a shame they do not make anything similar to go over their candy's. It could be rubber as the Candy's have a surround/base plate which would stop it moving.

Johnpsanderson

All I can say is, I started with flats/cages on my first 'proper' road bike but didn't really like them, both the in and out faff, but also the fact that a casual/cheap running trainer sole seems fairly floppy under the foot when pedalling.

So I fitted SPDs because they were the cheapest (£15 for Wellgo SPD pedals from memory - although that was in 2003) and persevered with them for perhaps 4 or 5 rides. That was a road bike. After that I didn't need to persevere, it became second nature. When I had a few spare quid (£25 for the pedals and £20 for cheapo end of line 'road' shoes) I went up to Look Delta simply because they were 'proper' road shoes and again because they were cheap.

Don't know the facts on whether it is truly more efficient/effective etc but since then i've never been tempted to go back to flats or cages. I use SPDs on my bike that I commute on, so I can walk about in the shoes a bit, and Look Deltas on my road bike, when i'm not likely to do any walking apart from down my driveway.

The one thing I would say is, attempts to use the 'little plastic adaptors' to pedal on the SPDs in normal shoes were a waste of time.

Schoie81

Carbonator - well if you can get them for around £20 then maybe i've been too hasty, but I found them at about £50 and upwards. I'm not sure about the cleat being exposed - from what I can tell, the spd clip 'pops-up' and so it can still be used with shoes with recessed cleats - but i'm not 100% sure on that?

@SimonMasterson - can you shed any light on that??

MrSweary

Carbonator wrote:

I have never used them but guessing you must have to orientate before clipping in.

Nope.. they self level so you just put your foot down and go.

@Schoie - Practice leaning up against a wall before you try whilst moving. How easy they are to unclip from will depend on how tight your boss has them set up so don't be put off if they are stiff. I have mine at a medium stiffness which works well for my stop start commute. Mine allow me to unclip by rotating the heel in or out - I think some older models may be out only but not sure on that.

Schoie81

MrSweary wrote:

@Schoie - Practice leaning up against a wall before you try whilst moving. How easy they are to unclip from will depend on how tight your boss has them set up so don't be put off if they are stiff. I have mine at a medium stiffness which works well for my stop start commute. Mine allow me to unclip by rotating the heel in or out - I think some older models may be out only but not sure on that.

Cheers Sweary. Watched a video on YouTube about using SPDs and they said the same - practice clipping in and out whilst stationary until you are used to it before even thinking about moving - sounds like sensible advice to me. Also advised to slacken off the tension completely and try them adjusting the tension tighter bit by bit until i'm happy with them - will do that with mine, but i'm not going to muck about adjusting my boss's so if he's got them set up too tight and I don't feel comfortable, I might not bother with the test ride (he's only had his new bike a few weeks and he might not be too happy if I bring it back scratched (or worse) cos I couldn't get my feet out in time!!) - I'll just practice in and out whilst stood still if that's the case. The literature on the Shimano website say that (for the pedals i'm looking at least) they release moving the heel outwards only.