Abit of a cycleing debate....

13

Comments

  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    I think cycling merely reflects the general economic climate; everything else is expensive as well, or so say the receipts from my food shopping and my utility bills. Granted, places like Aldi are offering dirt cheap cyclewear and accessories (though I have ethical concerns about the place of manufacture and workers producing the products), but in general I'm not terribly surprised about what it costs to buy new stuff. Another possible factor is the reduction of manufacturing in this country over the last few decades. Your bike and its accessories (probably) no longer come from a factory in the Midlands or Yorkshire.

    Undoubtedly there are possible factors that contribute to the cost of some entry level bikes - eg. the demand for carbon forks, brifters, etc - but even then I've seen bikes with downtube shifting and steel forks and they aren't that much cheaper... How much do you expect a new bike to cost: £70? £100? Halfords (amongst others) offer basic road bikes that are pretty cheap. Unfortunately the modern West has become conditioned into demanding cheap goods. The only reason you can have cheap clothes (and food, electricals and other manufactured or handmade commodities) is due to the excesses of capitalism: environmental destruction, appalling treatment of livestock and workers, and irresponsible investment.

    For me personally I know what cycling 'on a budget' is like only too well. Unfortunately it just means I buy less. My cyclewear is tatty, and my bikes could use various upgrades. Though being old, they are cheap(ish) to run. ;)


    Fantastic responce!!!! For a decent bike that is fairly lighweight should start from £150 as it seems resonable?

    Certainly a new Halfords Carrera will not be 'heavy'; I'd expect 12kg or so, though I'm happy to be corrected. My main bike weighs 12kg with rack and mudguards (currently not on), including 27" wheels, which aren't the lightest. If your bike weighs 10kg or less then it's light enough. It's a hugely overrated factor in cycling.

    As for secondhand, if you get a decent 531 bike (assuming cheaper than other lighter steels) then there's a reasonable chance it might weigh less than 10kg, if not more like 8-9...
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    KevChallis wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Do you know Bustacapp?
    Have you ever been seen in the same room as him?


    nope! what does this have to do with the price of bread?
    if its some sort of threat then shove off!

    I'm guessing here, Bustacapp was a bit of a troll...

    Had a massive chip on his shoulder.
    I tried very hard to help him out with advice to get good stuff on a tight budget, but he just abused me.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Bit of a personal question, but do you smoke blueneedles?
  • KevChallis
    KevChallis Posts: 646
    Carbonator wrote:
    KevChallis wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Do you know Bustacapp?
    Have you ever been seen in the same room as him?


    nope! what does this have to do with the price of bread?
    if its some sort of threat then shove off!

    I'm guessing here, Bustacapp was a bit of a troll...

    Had a massive chip on his shoulder.
    I tried very hard to help him out with advice to get good stuff on a tight budget, but he just abused me.

    Forums suck sometimes for that!!

    So the op knows, my budget was under £900 when I started, only a month ago, I managed to get helmet, 2 bottle holders, and 2 inner tube free with my bike through some bartering, cheap £30 on offer shoes from Evans, spd-sl pedals from wiggle, again cheap £20,shorts I did spend a little more on, but my first 100 miles on the bike I didn't have them so rode in normal shorts, my jersey, jackets, socks, bottles, bag, tools, nearly all came from aldi, I earn the money to buy branded if I wanted, but as a new guy to road cycling, what's the point? If I stick with it I will upgrade, upgrade as you can afford it, cheaper options are available, and no point getting in debt or hung up over what you're riding or what you're riding in, just get out and enjoy it
    Kev
    PlanetX Pro Carbon
    Voodoo Bizango
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    I think cycling merely reflects the general economic climate; everything else is expensive as well, or so say the receipts from my food shopping and my utility bills. Granted, places like Aldi are offering dirt cheap cyclewear and accessories (though I have ethical concerns about the place of manufacture and workers producing the products), but in general I'm not terribly surprised about what it costs to buy new stuff. Another possible factor is the reduction of manufacturing in this country over the last few decades. Your bike and its accessories (probably) no longer come from a factory in the Midlands or Yorkshire.

    Undoubtedly there are possible factors that contribute to the cost of some entry level bikes - eg. the demand for carbon forks, brifters, etc - but even then I've seen bikes with downtube shifting and steel forks and they aren't that much cheaper... How much do you expect a new bike to cost: £70? £100? Halfords (amongst others) offer basic road bikes that are pretty cheap. Unfortunately the modern West has become conditioned into demanding cheap goods. The only reason you can have cheap clothes (and food, electricals and other manufactured or handmade commodities) is due to the excesses of capitalism: environmental destruction, appalling treatment of livestock and workers, and irresponsible investment.

    For me personally I know what cycling 'on a budget' is like only too well. Unfortunately it just means I buy less. My cyclewear is tatty, and my bikes could use various upgrades. Though being old, they are cheap(ish) to run. ;)


    Fantastic responce!!!! For a decent bike that is fairly lighweight should start from £150 as it seems resonable?

    Certainly a new Halfords Carrera will not be 'heavy'; I'd expect 12kg or so, though I'm happy to be corrected. My main bike weighs 12kg with rack and mudguards (currently not on), including 27" wheels, which aren't the lightest. If your bike weighs 10kg or less then it's light enough. It's a hugely overrated factor in cycling.

    As for secondhand, if you get a decent 531 bike (assuming cheaper than other lighter steels) then there's a reasonable chance it might weigh less than 10kg, if not more like 8-9...


    Yes ive considered the carrera hybrids with a set of drops :) i have a retro frame that im currently building but the componants i wish to fit to avoid multiple upgrades are rediculas in price ive discovered. I think the steel frame i have is 9/10kg with all components fitted at a guess
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    Carbonator wrote:
    Bit of a personal question, but do you smoke blueneedles?

    if your refering to the plant type then no i dont lolz
    i used to smoke nearly 5 years ago now only the odd cigar when atending a beer fest :)
  • simon_masterson
    simon_masterson Posts: 2,740
    I think cycling merely reflects the general economic climate; everything else is expensive as well, or so say the receipts from my food shopping and my utility bills. Granted, places like Aldi are offering dirt cheap cyclewear and accessories (though I have ethical concerns about the place of manufacture and workers producing the products), but in general I'm not terribly surprised about what it costs to buy new stuff. Another possible factor is the reduction of manufacturing in this country over the last few decades. Your bike and its accessories (probably) no longer come from a factory in the Midlands or Yorkshire.

    Undoubtedly there are possible factors that contribute to the cost of some entry level bikes - eg. the demand for carbon forks, brifters, etc - but even then I've seen bikes with downtube shifting and steel forks and they aren't that much cheaper... How much do you expect a new bike to cost: £70? £100? Halfords (amongst others) offer basic road bikes that are pretty cheap. Unfortunately the modern West has become conditioned into demanding cheap goods. The only reason you can have cheap clothes (and food, electricals and other manufactured or handmade commodities) is due to the excesses of capitalism: environmental destruction, appalling treatment of livestock and workers, and irresponsible investment.

    For me personally I know what cycling 'on a budget' is like only too well. Unfortunately it just means I buy less. My cyclewear is tatty, and my bikes could use various upgrades. Though being old, they are cheap(ish) to run. ;)


    Fantastic responce!!!! For a decent bike that is fairly lighweight should start from £150 as it seems resonable?

    Certainly a new Halfords Carrera will not be 'heavy'; I'd expect 12kg or so, though I'm happy to be corrected. My main bike weighs 12kg with rack and mudguards (currently not on), including 27" wheels, which aren't the lightest. If your bike weighs 10kg or less then it's light enough. It's a hugely overrated factor in cycling.

    As for secondhand, if you get a decent 531 bike (assuming cheaper than other lighter steels) then there's a reasonable chance it might weigh less than 10kg, if not more like 8-9...


    Yes ive considered the carrera hybrids with a set of drops :) i have a retro frame that im currently building but the componants i wish to fit to avoid multiple upgrades are rediculas in price ive discovered. I think the steel frame i have is 9/10kg with all components fitted at a guess

    This is a familiar problem. What gears do you have? Upgrading to STI/Ergo is likely to bump costs up (without factoring in adding cable guides to the frame if needed); downtube friction levers will reduce the cost considerably.
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    KevChallis wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    KevChallis wrote:
    Carbonator wrote:
    Do you know Bustacapp?
    Have you ever been seen in the same room as him?


    nope! what does this have to do with the price of bread?
    if its some sort of threat then shove off!

    I'm guessing here, Bustacapp was a bit of a troll...

    Had a massive chip on his shoulder.
    I tried very hard to help him out with advice to get good stuff on a tight budget, but he just abused me.

    Forums suck sometimes for that!!

    So the op knows, my budget was under £900 when I started, only a month ago, I managed to get helmet, 2 bottle holders, and 2 inner tube free with my bike through some bartering, cheap £30 on offer shoes from Evans, spd-sl pedals from wiggle, again cheap £20,shorts I did spend a little more on, but my first 100 miles on the bike I didn't have them so rode in normal shorts, my jersey, jackets, socks, bottles, bag, tools, nearly all came from aldi, I earn the money to buy branded if I wanted, but as a new guy to road cycling, what's the point? If I stick with it I will upgrade, upgrade as you can afford it, cheaper options are available, and no point getting in debt or hung up over what you're riding or what you're riding in, just get out and enjoy it

    im doing my own build so keeping the cost down i have a retro style frame to which im trying to make modern for a fraction of the cost just need shifters (wanting sti's) chain, cables, bars, bar tape,brake pads
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    This is a familiar problem. What gears do you have? Upgrading to STI/Ergo is likely to bump costs up (without factoring in adding cable guides to the frame if needed); downtube friction levers will reduce the cost considerably.[/quote]

    they are the downtube style shifters i cant seem to get along with them having mainly rideing MTB i much prefer shiters on the bars close to hand if im struggleing :)

    i have an old mtb frame to which ive cut out the cable guide and now im getting an idea together as to how to attach/clamp it to the frame..

    i think i will start another thread as this one has not gone to plan :)
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    come on mate i played along with the childish rubbish earlyer, look i come on here to ask for advice etc instead of constantly dragging stuff on just dont bother posting!

    You came on here and right from the very start its clear to everyone else that you have a huge chip on your shoulder!! You clearly dont like the fact that you cant afford a decent quality bike and so you have a huge rant - yes a RANT about how bike shops dont look after the "little guys" by selling bikes in what you (and only you) think is a sensible starter budget!! You clearly think the world owes you a living and if you could see beyond your petty and childish rants that you've had going since post 1 - then you might actually see that pretty much everyone has tried to give you actual advice before giving up on trying!! Your damn crap attitude is why you're getting so much grief on here now - not everyone's "bullying"!!

    You'd be better off posting in Cake Stop about how you can go about bettering your career prospects - training etc, so that you can actually give yourself a better future with more money in your pocket than griping about how you only have £10 or £12 per week or whatever it is!! Clearly you're not the sort who would actually listen to any advice unless its what you want to hear though - thats been your whole approach right through!!

    Oh and PS, 6 years ago i was a Valetter at a car dealership thanks to circumstances beyond my control at that time. Now i'm Managing Director of my own Financial Services company - and i have plenty of disposable income. I got here through sheer hard work and ambition to actually do something to get myself a better future. Maybe if you actually stopped complaining about how everything is too expensive for the "little guys", and put your efforts into something more constructive - then you might not actually be one of the "little guys" and have the nice toys that you want!!
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    come on mate i played along with the childish rubbish earlyer, look i come on here to ask for advice etc instead of constantly dragging stuff on just dont bother posting!

    You came on here and right from the very start its clear to everyone else that you have a huge chip on your shoulder!! You clearly dont like the fact that you cant afford a decent quality bike and so you have a huge rant - yes a RANT about how bike shops dont look after the "little guys" by selling bikes in what you (and only you) think is a sensible starter budget!! You clearly think the world owes you a living and if you could see beyond your petty and childish rants that you've had going since post 1 - then you might actually see that pretty much everyone has tried to give you actual advice before giving up on trying!! Your damn crap attitude is why you're getting so much grief on here now - not everyone's "bullying"!!

    You'd be better off posting in Cake Stop about how you can go about bettering your career prospects - training etc, so that you can actually give yourself a better future with more money in your pocket than griping about how you only have £10 or £12 per week or whatever it is!! Clearly you're not the sort who would actually listen to any advice unless its what you want to hear though - thats been your whole approach right through!!

    Oh and PS, 6 years ago i was a Valetter at a car dealership thanks to circumstances beyond my control at that time. Now i'm Managing Director of my own Financial Services company - and i have plenty of disposable income. I got here through sheer hard work and ambition to actually do something to get myself a better future. Maybe if you actually stopped complaining about how everything is too expensive for the "little guys", and put your efforts into something more constructive - then you might not actually be one of the "little guys" and have the nice toys that you want!!


    what an arse you are! let me fill you in on something that has bugger all to do with you!

    first i have learning difficulties and being read,write and numericly dyslexic that ive had to over come and eek my way through every thing ive ever done with people that have the very attitude that you seem to have! Having left school i have worked my way upto better prostects!
    I moved away from my home city for a fresh start in life and spent 5 years getting all i needed to be a panel beater and sprayer funded by myself to which i passed with distinction.

    Ive never asked or wanted from anyone no matter what my cercomstances! after being made redundant 11 times in the last 10 years to which this nearly backrupted me on many occations.

    so how f*****g dare you tell me i dont work hard or try to accomplish anything but consider this when you try and tell me about i have a bloody chip on my shoulder! senario you get made redundand AGAIN i then have to ask my now wife to have an abortion due to the finacil implication etc.

    so telling me i want everything handed to me you can go f**k yourself.

    This is a cycle forum to ask cycle related questions not what you think of my personal life!!!!! If you dont like whats posted or it seems to be silly to you dont bloody shove your nose in just to have your own little insite!!!
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    4 pages of everyone telling YOU that your attitude stinks and you still dont get it do you!!

    Well i for one will leave you to it - i doubt anyone else will want to offer you any advice after seeing the one you turn on every bit of advice you get!! Think most have heard enough of your constant rants anyway - and i wont be reading any more of your drivel
  • elderone
    elderone Posts: 1,410
    Good god,this has turned into a teddy throwing contest.Op you have had some good advice and no one has slagged you off but you fly off the handle at the slightest thing you dissagree with.Think your just attention seeking juvenile with a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge chip on his shoulder.
    I.ll shut the door on me way out.
    Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    4 pages of everyone telling YOU that your attitude stinks and you still dont get it do you!!

    Well i for one will leave you to it - i doubt anyone else will want to offer you any advice after seeing the one you turn on every bit of advice you get!! Think most have heard enough of your constant rants anyway - and i wont be reading any more of your drivel


    look pal wind your neck in! like i said if you feel you must post a responce just be an arse than thats your deal i im more than willing to appologise that wires may have been crossed which it seemed a few people did all accept for your self im glad you wont respond to me as your yob/thuggish manner is not wanted.

    I havnt backed down as i refuse to give you any satisfaction in thinking you have broken me down in any way!
  • blueneedles
    blueneedles Posts: 74
    elderone wrote:
    Good god,this has turned into a teddy throwing contest.Op you have had some good advice and no one has slagged you off but you fly off the handle at the slightest thing you dissagree with.Think your just attention seeking juvenile with a Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge chip on his shoulder.
    I.ll shut the door on me way out.


    Look i never wanted this to escalate into what it has become! i do not wish for attention at all! im mearly trying to defend myself from the typical forum insults such as telling me im attention seeking,have a chip on my shoulder but you felt you needed to do the same and im the juvenile!!!!

    i tried to keep it civil by saying many many many times im not wanting to but heads but the yobbo keyboard warriors persists!

    And FYI im above 30 so hardly a kid!
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    bye
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Pity if the OP's gone, I was going to point out that I don't feel the need to abuse anyone as I ride around on my £120 second hand bike wearing clothes that cost £60 including DHB shoes...
  • cornerblock
    cornerblock Posts: 3,228
    More of a heated debate really. Malcolm Merton is over 30 I believe.

    _225070_mrs_merton_300.jpg
  • flasher
    flasher Posts: 1,734
    Do budget computers have spell check?
  • iPete
    iPete Posts: 6,076
    don't worry blueneedles, it may be road beginners but its all a game of points scoring for most people

    now i'd let this one sink down (i'm not helping) but if you start a thread for the budget bike build drop the link in..
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    As I see it users of this forum fall into a number of groups.
    Sure there must be show off's that like to brag about having expensive/high end kit but I do not really notice them.

    I would like to think that most users would have a decent bike that they are happy with and wear proper cycling clothes. We all would like nicer stuff (as we are interested in the sport) but hopefully do not get angry with those lucky enough to have it.

    The worse type of member (and they make themselves very visible) by far are those that do not have much and chose to slag off everyone else (even if they are trying to help them or just giving honest opinions on things) that dares to have a half decent road bike and call people who wear/use proper road bike clothes/accessories bell ends :?

    Road cycling does not have to be overly expensive, but its usually not cheap and is certainly not dirt cheap, and nor should it be.

    Why do some people feel they have a right to cycle even if they have minimal cash?
    Does this apply to other things/hobbies or just cycling?
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    Shame the OP has gone ...

    Anyway - I have an expensive roadbike ... an entry level Spec Allez with 2300 kit.
    Granted, it cost more than the OP's top budget - but I was getting it to replace a Halfords cheapy hybrid.

    expensive is an arbitrary level - my "expensive" bike cost less than some sets of wheels - and my kit certainly doesn't break any records ...

    You buy to what you can afford - I know someone with a decent secondhand road bike costing less than a ton - and he's going as fast as I am. More cost doesn't equal more speed and doesn't always mean more durable. Infact, if you're after durability, I'd hazard a guess that you're better off buying the lower spec chainset that is meatier.

    I'm not sure why the OP expects LBS's to accommodate bottom end budgets - generally the margin isn't there to make it viable to stock that sort of bike. So you end up going to large volume stockists - and you can get a new bike for under a ton - it just won't be light or anything like a "fast" roadbike. So you have to take your pick.

    It's the same with most sports - if you want the best kit the it will cost more money - both to buy and maintain. But you can get perfectly acceptable secondhand or cheaper kit that will allow you to participate for just about any budget (yes from £0 if you look at freecycling websites).
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Personally I think cost/quality of bike and performance of rider are not really linkable in terms of other riders. So saying someone is faster than you on a cheaper heavier bike is a bit pointless.

    Cost does equal more speed for any given rider though. Would have thought that's the main reason for spending more on a new bike.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    Not too sure about prices "over there" but here in the States it would seem that prices for decent quality equipment are constantly being pushed lower. In particular the online retailers. Companies like Nashbar are constantly having sales of closeouts and discontinued items along with a fair share of high end stuff. Damn right I'll wear a discontinued pair of shorts or jersey, if the price is right. It's my impresion that there are lots of manufacturers out there and if they want to sell their gear or components the price better be competitive. BIke shops, however, seem stuck with higher prices simply because the don't handle the volumn that the online guys do.
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    bompington wrote:
    Pity if the OP's gone, I was going to point out that I don't feel the need to abuse anyone as I ride around on my £120 second hand bike wearing clothes that cost £60 including DHB shoes...

    Did he leave then?? I guess he may have deleted a post given Nick's post above. Well I think we got an insight as to where that huge chip came from - he seems to be on a battle against the world! I know plenty of people with learning difficulties but none have the anger shown from outset that we saw! Wow!!

    I was chatting to a mate who just started his own decorating business on Saturday - he's struggling for cash at present and expects nothing from anyone. While we both started businesses at the same time, my circumstances meant I flew from outset and gives me plenty of spare cash - while he's building up his up slowly from almost nothing with all the help that his friends can give him. Bought himself a 2nd hand Giant Defy for very little cash which he brought around to set the gears up properly on the weekend after ringing and meeting me on my way home from a 100+ miler, and left with a couple of carbon bottle cages that I had spare.

    Its a shame that some seem to have to make so much up to suit their own argument, and think the world is against them!! I quite frankly don't care if someone rides a £100 2nd hand bike or a £8,000 bike (and have mates with both that I ride with) or have loads of money or not - your mates are always your mates!

    Apologies to everyone else - but I have no time for anyone who wants to try and get so abusive.
  • TheHound
    TheHound Posts: 284
    Lol I love this thread is still going.

    Have some bump.
    Bianchi Intenso Athena
    Handbuilt Wheels by dcrwheels.co.uk
    Fizik Cyrano R3 Handlebars
    Selle Italia SLR Kit Carbonio Flow saddle
    Deda Superleggero seatpost
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Aww.. A playground fight and I missed it
  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    Mikey23 wrote:
    Aww.. A playground fight and I missed it

    I can always take out my "yobbish behaviour" on you if you like Mikey?? :lol::wink:
  • When he said he had gone i think he meant it...
  • Frank Wilson
    Frank Wilson Posts: 930
    after being made redundant 11 times in the last 10 years to which this nearly backrupted me on many occations.

    I think with luck like that I would be asking if I was part of the problem.