Cavendish - best sportsman in the world?

woodford2barbican

RichN95 wrote:

By contrast with all this, Geraint Thomas is probably only the third best sportsman from his school.

Gareth Bale = ok.

Who is the other?

Richmond Racer

woodford2barbican wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

By contrast with all this, Geraint Thomas is probably only the third best sportsman from his school.

Gareth Bale = ok.

Who is the other?

Sam Warburton innit

kleinstroker

Richmond Racer wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Cycling is a weird sport. Sprinters win because GC contenders don't really need to. This has created a bit of a vacuum where weaker all rounders actually get to win stages they otherwise wouldn't . Hence to my way of thinking, just not that important. If the rules where changed to ones which didnt allow GC contenders to relax on some stages, things would be very different.

Are you saying that the only reason that Contador or Evans or Schleck didn't jump away from the HTC train or outsprint Cavendish is because they didn't need to?

You can give a five minute bonus for a flat stage win and Cavendish is still going to win.

^ this.

kleinstroker, what exactly ARE the 'rules' allowing the GC boys not to challenge on a flat day? Cos please can you lobby for them to be changed because I really want to see them give Cav, Greipel etc a run for their money in the sprint. Should be really close.

The fact that GT's are done on time means that riders pick and choose what to try and win, removing this completely and replacing it with points like F1 would mean every rider racing every stage. I'm just trying to point outbthat Cavs wins are partly the result of an anomaly in the tactics of GC riders.

RichN95.

kleinstroker wrote:

The fact that GT's are done on time means that riders pick and choose what to try and win, removing this completely and replacing it with points like F1 would mean every rider racing every stage. I'm just trying to point outbthat Cavs wins are partly the result of an anomaly in the tactics of GC riders.

They would still pick and choose which stages they try and win. It they went on the attack every day then they'd never make it the end of the race. They might pick up a point or two finishing 17th in a bunch sprint if the points went down that far, but they're not going to win, or get anywhere close.

And under that system, Cavendish becomes a "GC" rider - ahead of the climbers.

mike6

kleinstroker wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

kleinstroker wrote:

Cycling is a weird sport. Sprinters win because GC contenders don't really need to. This has created a bit of a vacuum where weaker all rounders actually get to win stages they otherwise wouldn't . Hence to my way of thinking, just not that important. If the rules where changed to ones which didnt allow GC contenders to relax on some stages, things would be very different.

Are you saying that the only reason that Contador or Evans or Schleck didn't jump away from the HTC train or outsprint Cavendish is because they didn't need to?

You can give a five minute bonus for a flat stage win and Cavendish is still going to win.

^ this.

kleinstroker, what exactly ARE the 'rules' allowing the GC boys not to challenge on a flat day? Cos please can you lobby for them to be changed because I really want to see them give Cav, Greipel etc a run for their money in the sprint. Should be really close.

The fact that GT's are done on time means that riders pick and choose what to try and win, removing this completely and replacing it with points like F1 would mean every rider racing every stage. I'm just trying to point outbthat Cavs wins are partly the result of an anomaly in the tactics of GC riders.

Lets face it, GTs are all about tactics. Who to chase, who not to chase. When is a breakaway too far up the road. Have you got a rider in that break. Will it matter if the break takes 10 mins? All tactics.

woodford2barbican

Richmond Racer wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

By contrast with all this, Geraint Thomas is probably only the third best sportsman from his school.

Gareth Bale = ok.

Who is the other?

Sam Warburton innit

I would argue with you, as this is the internet and all opinion must be argued with, except I do not know what I am talking about. I have not followed football or rugby in over 10 years.

instead, and in a first for the internet, I am going to agree with you deferring to your greater knowledge.

(it is quite possible that this might break the internet completely.)

RichN95.

woodford2barbican wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

woodford2barbican wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

By contrast with all this, Geraint Thomas is probably only the third best sportsman from his school.

Gareth Bale = ok.

Who is the other?

Sam Warburton innit

I would argue with you, as this is the internet and all opinion must be argued with, except I do not know what I am talking about. I have not followed football or rugby in over 10 years.

instead, and in a first for the internet, I am going to agree with you deferring to your greater knowledge.

I did say 'probably' to allow for differing opinions.

greasedscotsman

RichN95 wrote:

And under that system, Cavendish becomes a "GC" rider - ahead of the climbers.

And still be beaten by Sagan.

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

And under that system, Cavendish becomes a "GC" rider - ahead of the climbers.

And still be beaten by Sagan.

Depends on the course. 2012 would be Sagan's but 2013 Cavendish's all the way.

greasedscotsman

RichN95 wrote:

Depends on the course. 2012 would be Sagan's but 2013 Cavendish's all the way.

What are we talking about now, the points comp that will happen or a GC based on points (which they used to do many, many years ago).

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Depends on the course. 2012 would be Sagan's but 2013 Cavendish's all the way.

What are we talking about now, the points comp that will happen or a GC based on points (which they used to do many, many years ago).

The latter.

But having seen the full profiles for this year's race today, I think Cav will win green this July.

Richmond Racer

Bold prediction, Rich. Love it if it happened.

RichN95.

Richmond Racer wrote:

Bold prediction, Rich. Love it if it happened.

I'm not sure it's that bold. Have you seen the full parcours? It's as though Cav drew it up himself. Eight definite flat sprint finishes and potentially a couple more for him

greasedscotsman

RichN95 wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Depends on the course. 2012 would be Sagan's but 2013 Cavendish's all the way.

What are we talking about now, the points comp that will happen or a GC based on points (which they used to do many, many years ago).

The latter.

Don't think it just depends on the course, but how far down the points would be awarded and how it was raced. I'm not sure you would see as many bunch sprints. Someone like Voeckler would win!

mike6

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Depends on the course. 2012 would be Sagan's but 2013 Cavendish's all the way.

What are we talking about now, the points comp that will happen or a GC based on points (which they used to do many, many years ago).

The latter.

Don't think it just depends on the course, but how far down the points would be awarded and how it was raced. I'm not sure you would see as many bunch sprints. Someone like Voeckler would win!

Good point. I am surprised the French have not tried this recently. Thomas would have a good chance. Lets face it, the Spanish produce courses to suit the little Spanish climbers so why not change the rules in the Tour to suit the French.
Sorted

No_Ta_Doctor

For those wondering how Cav is viewed abroad, I can't speak for any of the major cycling nations, but here in Denmark he's regarded as having Godlike powers. If there's a sprint finish and he's contesting the whole build up of the last ten km will be about him.

adr82

No tA Doctor wrote:

For those wondering how Cav is viewed abroad, I can't speak for any of the major cycling nations, but here in Denmark he's regarded as having Godlike powers. If there's a sprint finish and he's contesting the whole build up of the last ten km will be about him.

That WC win in Copenhagen probably helps I guess

I always thought he was far more famous in most European countries than he has been until relatively recently in the UK.

ddraver

I think he sounds much more popular on Sporza now he's riding for OPQS...The NOS commentators always sound suicidal so I can't help there. I think everyone knows he's an exceptional talent but that does tend to often make sprints a foregone conclusion which is never too fun

No_Ta_Doctor

adr82 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

For those wondering how Cav is viewed abroad, I can't speak for any of the major cycling nations, but here in Denmark he's regarded as having Godlike powers. If there's a sprint finish and he's contesting the whole build up of the last ten km will be about him.

That WC win in Copenhagen probably helps I guess

I always thought he was far more famous in most European countries than he has been until relatively recently in the UK.

More the fact he's ridden the Tour of Denmark a couple of times, including gracing it with the rainbow stripes last year.

And yes, Denmark is quite into it's cycling and Cavendish was a pretty much a household name here before he was in the UK :-)

dougzz

mike6 wrote:

Good point. I am surprised the French have not tried this recently. Thomas would have a good chance. Lets face it, the Spanish produce courses to suit the little Spanish climbers so why not change the rules in the Tour to suit the French.
Sorted

Because the Tour has a sense of history and proportion, whilst the Vuelta is a parochial little race of no consequence.

rick_chasey

He's really growing on me.

Used to really see him as a villain.

dave_1

Cav races 300 metres and max a km..his team do the rest...Cav best in the world?..give me freakin break will ya. Professional cycling has other aspects of performance needing evaluated which require MUCH MORE INDIVIDUAL EFFORT AND ALL ROUND TALENT...not jumping out from behind a team for 300 metres. The quality of threads in this forum is changing

Best in the world doesn't need pushed to stay inside time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqYBcTUsP4

No_Ta_Doctor

Dave_1 wrote:

Cav races 300 metres and max a km..his team do the rest...Cav best in the world?..give me freakin break will ya. Professional cycling has other aspects of performance needing evaluated which require MUCH MORE INDIVIDUAL EFFORT AND ALL ROUND TALENT...not jumping out from behind a team for 300 metres. The quality of threads in this forum is changing

Best in the world doesn't need pushed to stay inside time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqYBcTUsP4

That's 3 times as far as Usain Bolt, but I've never heard anyone describe him as being unworthy because he doesn't race marathons.

deejay

Dave_1 wrote:

Cav races 300 metres and max a km..his team do the rest...

I didn't know that OPQS picked up Cavendish from his car (you don't say where) and and set him on his way 300 metres from the Line.
I always thought Cavendish rode the whole stage of 150/250 Km's and over the mountains within the time limits.
Well there you go you learn something everyday. :!: :!:
He's quite a missile though for 300 metres.

mike6

dougzz wrote:

mike6 wrote:

Good point. I am surprised the French have not tried this recently. Thomas would have a good chance. Lets face it, the Spanish produce courses to suit the little Spanish climbers so why not change the rules in the Tour to suit the French.
Sorted

Because the Tour has a sense of history and proportion, whilst the Vuelta is a parochial little race of no consequence.

You said that, not me. I just hinted at it.

t4tomo

Dave_1 wrote:

Cav races 300 metres and max a km..his team do the rest...

Like to see you ride 200+kms doing the last 10km at 55kmh average and accelerate away from the 55kmh moving bunch. if your aren't an ignorant troll you are doing a very good impression of one.

RichN95.

Dave_1 wrote:

Cav races 300 metres and max a km..his team do the rest...Cav best in the world?..give me freakin break will ya. Professional cycling has other aspects of performance needing evaluated which require MUCH MORE INDIVIDUAL EFFORT AND ALL ROUND TALENT...not jumping out from behind a team for 300 metres. The quality of threads in this forum is changing

Best in the world doesn't need pushed to stay inside time limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyqYBcTUsP4

So you're another one of these boneheads who things that being a moderate 'all-rounder" is better and more worthy than being one the best ever at one thing.

Roy Castle of Record Breakers fame could famously play over 50 musical instruments. Jimi Hendrix only played guitar. Who's better?

Ben Elton writes novels, sitcoms, plays, musicals, stand-up routines and songs. Charles Dickens just wrote novels. Who's better?

Kim Kirchen could ride Grand Tours for GC and win one week races, mountain stages, time trials, sprints, hilly classics and flat classics. By your mind he must be the greatest rider of the last 20 years.

ocdupalais

It's not just Cav that has it easy.
That Spanish lot - your Rodriguezes, Contadors and Valverdes, and some of them Colombians: Quintana, Betancur, etc - plus that Italian bloke Nibali, yeah? All they do is hide behind their team mates for most of any stage, before popping out for the last bit at the top of the hills. 'Course they're going to win! - everyone else is knackered 'cos they've been running about after them all day getting snacks and scarves, what with the draught and that.
Those lazy Fatty Cats of the peloton are easy to spot with their chubby physiques - it's only the minions that stay slender.

Richmond Racer

OCDuPalais wrote:

It's not just Cav that has it easy.
That Spanish lot - your Rodriguezes, Contadors and Valverdes, and some of them Colombians: Quintana, Betancur, etc - plus that Italian bloke Nibali, yeah? All they do is hide behind their team mates for most of any stage, before popping out for the last bit at the top of the hills. 'Course they're going to win! - everyone else is knackered 'cos they've been running about after them all day getting snacks and scarves, what with the draught and that.
Those lazy Fatty Cats of the peloton are easy to spot with their chubby physiques - it's only the minions that stay slender.

^Laughed. Out. Loud


And when you put it like that, there are less summit finishes than sprint stages in stage races - even more time for lazing around...

above_the_cows

Compared to the track cyclists all road cyclists are obviously better, suffer more etc. etc. I mean the track lot get to cycle inside out of the rain, get to do their natural breaks in an actual toilet with loo roll and never even have to turn right.