Hivemind - new bike cost

Ben6899

rubertoe wrote:

Ben,

I can see why your going 7900 rather than 9000! 11 speed is expensive

7900 shifters on sale here

Yep!

I have to be realistic. Until 11sp trickles down to Ultegra then I am stuck replacing a worn cassette for ~£200. I can't afford that and I guess the eventual 11sp Ultegra cassette will still be ~£130. Which I can't afford either!

Compare that to the 10sp Ultegra cassette which is ~£50.

sketchley

Why not just go Ultegra, it's not exactly a bad group set...... Didn't the 7900 get a few bad reviews?

sketchley

http://road.cc/content/review/10294-shi ... 0-groupset

gabriel959

meanredspider wrote:

gabriel959 wrote:

And Di2 seems like a step backwards with all the dead batteries around. Why pay more for something which sometimes works and others don't.

This is the first time I'd heard about this issue so I Googled "Di2 battery problems" and came up with almost nothing. In fact most of the posts were related to how the battery almost never needs charging (my experience)

In fact, in the year that I've had Di2, my mate has had two failures of mechanical gear cables on his Trek Madone SSL Dura Ace ("Why pay more for something which sometimes works...." )

I am not saying it is a general problem but I have a few fellow club members and fellow friends of mine that have had problems with dead batteries. I also remember reading a thread here about the same problem. Wiggins also agrees with me! Obviously problems are going to happen in any set up for the addition of electronic elements is just adding to the complexity for little gain.

For some that might be a good enough risk to take but I can't be doing with it and surely replacing a cable (which could happen to a Di2 setup too) is easier than debugging problems with Di2. That is my opinion

Ben6899

Sketchley wrote:

Why not just go Ultegra, it's not exactly a bad group set...... Didn't the 7900 get a few bad reviews?

Not suggesting for a minute that it is [a bad group set], but this will be my Sunday Best bike for some time to come - I want to spec it as highly as possible.

Everything gets a few bad reviews...

Wheelspinner

Hmm.

Ben6899 wrote:

I'm not sure of the point of your contribution, to be honest, and you've caught me on a very bad day.

Clearly. There wasn't a particular point, other than your lousy, somewhat unfair and misleading maths in the OP. You managed to inflate the price differential by 25%.

Also worth noting perhaps is that "free" Retul fit they are throwing in (?) is reviewed on this website as costing in the order of 200 pounds. See here:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/tools/cycling-tools/fitting-systems/product/review-retul-fit-system-42715

Even if Starley only pay 100 for you to go have that fit done somewhere, it still knocks another big chunk out of the actual price differential, and thus their profit on this deal.

FWIW, I'd expect to pay (and have) a few hundred bucks (say 150 - 200 pounds?) to have a good bike built properly by someone who knows what they are doing and has all the right tools. Give or take a few add-in things like the Retul fit, extended warranty, after sales service (hello, new wheel truing) and time saving of a single order instead of buying bits and dropping them off to the LBS, it seems to me that's what they've offered you as a quote?

On the downside, you have managed to generate some bad publicity for Starley Bikes. Google "Starley bike build cost". This thread is high up on that search, and on balance is not painting them in the best light, deservedly or otherwise, is it? They must be thrilled.

Looks like a lovely bike, and should be a great ride. Perhaps that's the only point that matters in the end.

Ben6899

Wheelspinner wrote:

Hmm.

Ben6899 wrote:

I'm not sure of the point of your contribution, to be honest, and you've caught me on a very bad day.

Clearly. There wasn't a particular point, other than your lousy, somewhat unfair and misleading maths in the OP. You managed to inflate the price differential by 25%.

Also worth noting perhaps is that "free" Retul fit they are throwing in (?) is reviewed on this website as costing in the order of 200 pounds. See here:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/tools/cycling-tools/fitting-systems/product/review-retul-fit-system-42715

Even if Starley only pay 100 for you to go have that fit done somewhere, it still knocks another big chunk out of the actual price differential, and thus their profit on this deal.

FWIW, I'd expect to pay (and have) a few hundred bucks (say 150 - 200 pounds?) to have a good bike built properly by someone who knows what they are doing and has all the right tools. Give or take a few add-in things like the Retul fit, extended warranty, after sales service (hello, new wheel truing) and time saving of a single order instead of buying bits and dropping them off to the LBS, it seems to me that's what they've offered you as a quote?

On the downside, you have managed to generate some bad publicity for Starley Bikes. Google "Starley bike build cost". This thread is high up on that search, and on balance is not painting them in the best light, deservedly or otherwise, is it? They must be thrilled.

Looks like a lovely bike, and should be a great ride. Perhaps that's the only point that matters in the end.

I don't think I have generated bad publicity at all. I explained that I haven't bought a whole new bike in quite a while and I think I am entirely justified in questioning where every single penny of my ~£3K is going. I have posed exactly the same questions to Starley and the retailer through which I am making the purchase and I haven't suggested once that I think I am being ripped off - neither here nor in my private correspondence.

There is a maths error in my OP. It is an error which I make no bones about correcting later in the thread.

I am going for this bike (I test rode one on Saturday - the frame is light and stiff, the Starley ancillaries are fantastic and their Meteor Race box section wheels are nothing short of incredible value, coming in at 1500gr for £299) and having it built by the retailer. It's my prerogative to take that route and I am now happy where all my money is going.

I think some of your comments are bang out of order, but hey: shoot me in the head with a massive gun for wanting to make my hard-earned cash go as far as possible.

rubertoe

I googled it, I could find no such thing...

Ben6899

rubertoe wrote:

I googled it, I could find no such thing...

I didn't even bother. It's unbelievable some of the negative responses for such a genuine query.

I feel like SPEEDKING.

sketchley

It's Wiggles fault, unless they send haribo in my order....

Wheelspinner

rubertoe wrote:

I googled it, I could find no such thing...

Dude, your Google-Fu is weak!

kelsen

Wheelspinner wrote:

rubertoe wrote:

I googled it, I could find no such thing...

Dude, your Google-Fu is weak!

...

Nope, I googled the exact same words and even went to page 2 and 3 but don't see it

Ben6899

Got it!

.com.au

But I still resent the notion that I have somehow tarred the brand by asking the questions I did.

suzyb

It's not bad google-fu, it bad google tracking your every search and changing the results it shows you for every future search.

-e- Actually it looks like it may just not be showing on .co.uk as it shows on .com and .de.

rubertoe

there is a .com?

iPete

Glad we got there in the end, looking forward to the build!

meanredspider

gabriel959 wrote:

I am not saying it is a general problem but I have a few fellow club members and fellow friends of mine that have had problems with dead batteries. I also remember reading a thread here about the same problem. Wiggins also agrees with me! Obviously problems are going to happen in any set up for the addition of electronic elements is just adding to the complexity for little gain.

For some that might be a good enough risk to take but I can't be doing with it and surely replacing a cable (which could happen to a Di2 setup too) is easier than debugging problems with Di2. That is my opinion

I guess that's just my surprise as I've not read or heard anything bad about it. My experience is pretty much fit-and-forget. So much so that it's been quite a novelty to be indexing (inexperienced) friends' mechanical gears for them. And my Di2 has been abused too - in the classic car world there's the polishers and the punishers (racers) - I'm very much in the punisher camp with cars and bikes. Crap weather doesn't stop me taking the Volagi and so the Di2 has been near submerged (literally) at times. I've also played "charger chicken" to see what happens if the battery does run right down. So far so great - it just works and, at 1000 miles between charges, my biggest problem is remembering where I put the charger.

rolf_f

Not been aware of Starley before. Not sure what to make of them! Seem to offer a very bespoke sounding product at a very cheap price but seem keen on disinformation. For example , they say

"Everything from the careful lay up of pre-preg carbon fibre to the building of our wheels is meticulously hand crafted. Giving our customers the ability to influence the creative process during the specification of their bike, every bike eventually becomes a unique work of art built to the highest standards.

Only the finest materials are selected and hand-finished by skilled artisans. Our highly trained staff scrutinise every detail to ensure that we continue to meet the most extreme quality standards, again keeping the Starley philosophy intact"

And they say "Designed and Built in the UK" - but they don't specifically say where the frames are built except somewhere buried in the innovations page. So it does rather sound as though they are hiding the truth behind subtle implication.

Also, if you look at the history page it seems to be current to 1901 which looks out of date even by the standards of Italian website company histories!

Still, that aside (and they are better than a lot of Italian companies in this respect) it does look like a rather nice product at a keen price.

Ben6899

Rolf F wrote:

... it does look like a rather nice product at a keen price.

Exactly this, Rolf.

jedster

I've noticed that your average LBS (and perhaps smallish bike brand?) has to pay MUCH higher prices for components than OEMs with a bit of volume. People like Ribble and Planet-X who can "over-order" OEM groupsets then sell a few on can offer much cheaper prices than LBS's who have to go through the aftermarket distributors. When I needed to replace a crankset I was appalled by the price the lBS wanted to charge of the components. I showed them what I could pay at Ribble and they nodded sadly and said if I ordered the parts then they would happily fit them for me but they couldn't compete.

I suspect that the bike brand is either too low volume to get an OEM deal or just trying to make a big margin on the components.

Anyway, handing the LBS a big box of bits and letting them build it sounds like the way forward.

sketchley

I just had similar conversation with Enigma, thier prices from Shimano UK where more than Ribbles on line price for my groupset. Also the online retailers might not be sourcing in the uk and instead buying bulk OEM product abroad on the gray market. I'm sure these are genuine parts and supply chain is perfectly legal. Additonally OEM products often have no manfacture warranty as the warranty is expected to be supplied by the bike manufacturer for OEM part. In the case of online companies selling OEM this means the online retailer will have to make warranty repairs and replacements at thier cost, it does not mean the consumer does not have a warranty. This makes sense as a retailer or bike manufacturer if say the OEM parts save you 30% from the reatiled box product to buy but only brakes 5% of the time you can factor in cost of replacement and still save 25%. Another reason they are cheaper is packaging and shipping, retail products are boxed with printed material etc, OEM products are shipped in bulk in plastic bags, less packaging cost and less shipping cost from factory to retailer.

itboffin

Ben6899 wrote:

Starley R1 Works "module" (frameset, seatpost, stem, bars) = £1,025
Starley Meteor Race wheels (build, tape, tubes, tyres, skewers) = £299 (these are very nice wheels btw ~1500g)

(both those prices from the Starley website)

Fizik Arione = £100
DA7900 = £1,200
DA Cables = £20
Fizik Bar tape = £12

(these taken from fair internet searches - one can probably pick up DA7900 and DA cables for less)

So it's £2,656 and the quote from Starley is £3,059. I am all for making profit and covering costs, but to me that seems excessive.

I would counter that build with

Cervelo R5 VWD from Slane for £1750
DA9000 from Ribble for £1200 inc cables
Wheels from Merlin, RIbble, Ugo (on here) £???

Should be able the same ish price for much more bike

itboffin

oooooooooooooor just stop messing around go to www.canyon.com grab an uber bagain and wonder to yourself how such an awesome GT stage winning bike could be so cheap.

I've made up my mind that my next bike will be the SLX record, winter bike only of course!

dhope

itboffin wrote:

oooooooooooooor just stop messing around go to http://www.canyon.com grab an uber bagain and wonder to yourself how such an awesome GT stage winning bike could be so cheap.

I've made up my mind that my next bike will be the SLX record, winter bike only of course!

Indeed. Touch of envy creeping in after the guy next to me at work emailed me a pic of his new bike...



Canyon will be shipping out the proper seatpost soon.

itboffin

Oh dear lord that's sexy I would push him down the stairs or something and claim he said I could have it.

yum

Ben6899

Yes, I considered Canyon and Cervelo, but I want something different. Please don't take offence with that comment.

I'm down at £2,900 now - that's the Starley authorised dealer buying everything in, building the bike, fitting me and me receiving all the warranties (5 years on the frame, 2 years on parts and workmanship).

I'm going to the dealer this Saturday to fill out the order form. Part of that form filling is deciding the colours. I am leaving the frame/fork matte black, losing all of the swishes and swooshes and going for the brand/model lettering in dark red outline with no fill colour. I toyed with the idea of dark red saddle and tape, but I think I'll stick with black.

What do we all think to the colour scheme? I appreciate it's totally subjective.

spasypaddy

so like a caad 9 but with red?

Ben6899

Yes.



All swooshes gone. "STARLEY" and "JKS R1" references in dark red outline.

spasypaddy

will look good.

unoriginal (and i cant talk). But will look good!

rubertoe

You want Bar Tape like this