Hivemind - new bike cost

sketchley

Ben6899 wrote:

I really appreciate all the input to this, chaps.

I have spoken with the shop and they have asked for my breakdown to send to Starley. I am also trying to not be a pratt as far as the shop is concerned; they're a very pleasant outfit and have been very helpful so far.

That makes it sound like LBS is a Starley dealer? In which case ask the LBS for build cost assuming only the frame comes from Starley, and get them to confirm warranty will still be valid (in writting).

@V68 - Yes he could take them to court, but it would be most likely be a SOGA claim rather than a warranty one.

Ben6899

Sketchley wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

I really appreciate all the input to this, chaps.

I have spoken with the shop and they have asked for my breakdown to send to Starley. I am also trying to not be a pratt as far as the shop is concerned; they're a very pleasant outfit and have been very helpful so far.

That makes it sound like LBS is a Starley dealer? In which case ask the LBS for build cost assuming only the frame comes from Starley, and get them to confirm warranty will still be valid (in writting).

That's exactly where we're at, at the moment.

t4tomo

cetianly at the lower end of bike cost you get a discount for buying a whole bike - I.e a on complete bike costs less that teh sum of its parts. I've never really priced up at the £3k end of things but it does seem odd.

sketchley

My guess is here that Starley make margin on the bikes that they spec up by bulk buying components etc as bikes are then the same. They make a fair bit of margin doing this way. If someone wants custom components then cost goes up as they pay more for one off component orders and I suspect they still want to make same margin on complete bike. Just buying the frame is probably what everyone is going to be the most happy with. Starley get a standard order (Frame and Fork) easy to ship etc. The LBS get a bike build, the components and a happy customer, Ben gets a nice bike at a decent price. Just make sure you get the warranty stuff in writting.

Ben6899

Sketchley wrote:

My guess is here that Starley make margin on the bikes that they spec up by bulk buying components etc as bikes are then the same. They make a fair bit of margin doing this way. If someone wants custom components then cost goes up as they pay more for one off component orders and I suspect they still want to make same margin on complete bike. Just buying the frame is probably what everyone is going to be the most happy with. Starley get a standard order (Frame and Fork) easy to ship etc. The LBS get a bike build, the components and a happy customer, Ben gets a nice bike at a decent price. Just make sure you get the warranty stuff in writting.

I reckon you're bang on the money. And I will make sure of the warranty issue.

DonDaddyD

If this was any other product or even a cheaper bike, there would be no debate.

I've walked out of shops for less.

Ben6899

DonDaddyD wrote:

If this was any other product or even a cheaper bike, there would be no debate.

I've walked out of shops for less.

Well that's the thing you see, I didn't realise the mark-up until I did some research after leaving the shop. And the shop are being very helpful, open and honest.

DonDaddyD

Ben6899 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If this was any other product or even a cheaper bike, there would be no debate.

I've walked out of shops for less.

Well that's the thing you see, I didn't realise the mark-up until I did some research after leaving the shop. And the shop are being very helpful, open and honest.

Are they reducing the price?

Ben6899

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

If this was any other product or even a cheaper bike, there would be no debate.

I've walked out of shops for less.

Well that's the thing you see, I didn't realise the mark-up until I did some research after leaving the shop. And the shop are being very helpful, open and honest.

Are they reducing the price?

They are providing me with a quote along the lines of what Chris wrote a few posts up: buy the frameset from Starley, source parts themselves and build it for me. Let's see how much gets knocked off.

bails87

I'm confused as to where the mark-up is coming from.

Is it:
List price for frame
+
Manufacturer's RRP for parts
+
£500
= new bike?

Or are the prices of the parts coming from somewhere else?

Ben6899

Starley R1 Works "module" (frameset, seatpost, stem, bars) = £1,025
Starley Meteor Race wheels (build, tape, tubes, tyres, skewers) = £299 (these are very nice wheels btw ~1500g)

(both those prices from the Starley website)

Fizik Arione = £100
DA7900 = £1,200
DA Cables = £20
Fizik Bar tape = £12

(these taken from fair internet searches - one can probably pick up DA7900 and DA cables for less)

So it's £2,656 and the quote from Starley is £3,059. I am all for making profit and covering costs, but to me that seems excessive.

bails87

Well the RRP for the 7900 groupset is £1700, so there's your £500...

DonDaddyD

Are these prices with VAT?

Sounds silly but that 20% or so/or less might be the VAT....

Ben6899

bails87 wrote:

Well the RRP for the 7900 groupset is £1700, so there's your £500...

Where have you read that? Nearly everywhere I have looked, DA7900 is between £900 and £1200. DA9000 is nearer to £1700, but not quite.

DonDaddyD wrote:

Are these prices with VAT?

Sounds silly but that 20% or so/or less might be the VAT....

These prices include VAT.


Having said all that, I would be happy for someone to say "actually, your prices are way too low; you're looking at something more like [...]" rather than being stiffed for the build cost.

bails87

http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/shimano- ... tAodMQUAfg

It's for sale for £1529 there, but the RRP is £1699.99

Wouldn't surprise me if a small bike maker was using RRP.

Ben6899

bails87 wrote:

http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/shimano-7900-dura-ace-groupset-53-42t-id49740.html?gclid=CLrh8M-GpbcCFZMbtAodMQUAfg

It's for sale for £1529 there, but the RRP is £1699.99

Wouldn't surprise me if a small bike maker was using RRP.

If that's the case, then it's fair enough. And it sends me down the Ben sources the parts route.

sketchley

Ben6899 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Well the RRP for the 7900 groupset is £1700, so there's your £500...

Where have you read that?

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/ ... t-09-34164

Ben6899

I feel a bit stupid now, but at least I know I can arrive at the same bike for fewer pounds.

sketchley

Don't feel stupid, it's your money...

rubertoe

Ben6899 wrote:

I feel a bit stupid now, but at least I know I can arrive at the same bike for fewer pounds.

That was 2009 (The 7900 DA)

RRP will be lower than that now due to the new DA.

Ribble are doing the 9000 DA for shy of £1300 Linky

Your defo better sourcing the parts yourself and paying the LBS to build.

You will get a cracking spec bike if your happy to gather the components

bails87

RRP for 9000 is £1900 so that could add another £200 to the build.

Ben6899

So the quote from the shop where they source everything and do the fitting/build is £2,950.

I have a breakdown and there's a definite disparity between the DA7900 component costs they quote and the ones I have found. Everything else accords with my research so it seems the best bet is for me to source the groupset and leave the rest to the shop.

I don't want DA9000, I can't afford replacement cassettes!

gabriel959

Ben6899 wrote:

So the quote from the shop where they source everything and do the fitting/build is £2,950.

I have a breakdown and there's a definite disparity between the DA7900 component costs they quote and the ones I have found. Everything else accords with my research so it seems the best bet is for me to source the groupset and leave the rest to the shop.

I don't want DA9000, I can't afford replacement cassettes!

And Di2 seems like a step backwards with all the dead batteries around. Why pay more for something which sometimes works and others don't.

Wheelspinner

So let me get this straight. You're the kind of person who rounds up an actual price difference of 403 quid to be "~500"? There's your answer. Those DA cables at 20, well that's near enough 100, innit? And the tape at 12? That's another hundred maaaaaaaaaate. And 1025 for the frame set, well that's near as dammit to 1100? See how easy this maths malarkey is?

SteppenHerring

Seems odd as LBS's have enough on the parts markup to cover assembly etc.

I just bought my son a 2013 Tarmac Sport (what was I thinking?) that cost me £1,350 from the LBS including fitting and setup. (10% club discount) If you can build me that from parts for less, I would be surprised.

meanredspider

gabriel959 wrote:

And Di2 seems like a step backwards with all the dead batteries around. Why pay more for something which sometimes works and others don't.

This is the first time I'd heard about this issue so I Googled "Di2 battery problems" and came up with almost nothing. In fact most of the posts were related to how the battery almost never needs charging (my experience)

In fact, in the year that I've had Di2, my mate has had two failures of mechanical gear cables on his Trek Madone SSL Dura Ace ("Why pay more for something which sometimes works...." )

Ben6899

Wheelspinner wrote:

So let me get this straight. You're the kind of person who rounds up an actual price difference of 403 quid to be "~500"? There's your answer. Those DA cables at 20, well that's near enough 100, innit? And the tape at 12? That's another hundred maaaaaaaaaate. And 1025 for the frame set, well that's near as dammit to 1100? See how easy this maths malarkey is?

I'm not sure of the point of your contribution, to be honest, and you've caught me on a very bad day.

Ben6899

SteppenHerring wrote:

Seems odd as LBS's have enough on the parts markup to cover assembly etc.

I just bought my son a 2013 Tarmac Sport (what was I thinking?) that cost me £1,350 from the LBS including fitting and setup. (10% club discount) If you can build me that from parts for less, I would be surprised.

I haven't priced up a 2013 Tarmac Sport, but I can categorically state that just by asking questions regarding price, I have already knocked £100 off the original quote for the bike I am interested in. If I source the DA7900 myself, then I can lose another £500.

So it does indeed seem, that in this instance, I am better going down the parts route.

t4tomo

Ben6899 wrote:

Wheelspinner wrote:

So let me get this straight. You're the kind of person who rounds up an actual price difference of 403 quid to be "~500"? There's your answer. Those DA cables at 20, well that's near enough 100, innit? And the tape at 12? That's another hundred maaaaaaaaaate. And 1025 for the frame set, well that's near as dammit to 1100? See how easy this maths malarkey is?

I'm not sure of the point of your contribution, to be honest, and you've caught me on a very bad day.

I'm having a good day and can't see the point of his contribution either.

rubertoe

Ben,

I can see why your going 7900 rather than 9000! 11 speed is expensive

7900 shifters on sale here