My bike after a bike fit!

Wirral_paul

Looks more like Goofy did it in Disneyland...... although maybe i should refrain from saying that in case Grill comes along and shoots me down in flames, and tells me i'm completely wrong again.

Grill

Position is personal, but as I stated in my last post on this subject, extreme changes should always be scrutinized. My point before was that KOPS is a load of balls.

I find it incredibly fascinating that the answer to a bike that's too small is to push one as far forward as possible, and to push one as far back as allowed if the frame is too big. All of this strikes me as counter-intuitive when a happy medium can surely be found.

Camcycle1974

jordan_217 wrote:

Proff, did you get this done in Cambridge????

Think I see where you are going but the person in question usually recommends putting the seat back and a longer stem which is not what has happened here. I had a bike fit too, was not convinced with the saddle being move forward and have since set it right back so i have more weight over the back wheel than coming forward as before. Bike fit imo is more trial and error than a science (Retul excepted perhaps)

Grill

Camcycle1974 wrote:

jordan_217 wrote:

Proff, did you get this done in Cambridge????

Think I see where you are going but the person in question usually recommends putting the seat back and a longer stem which is not what has happened here. I had a bike fit too, was not convinced with the saddle being move forward and have since set it right back so i have more weight over the back wheel than coming forward as before. Bike fit imo is more trial and error than a science (Retul excepted perhaps)

Retul is a guide and is only as good as the person translating it as results. I had a Retul fit done for my TT bike, and even then I've played about and made quite a few changes as the "typical fit" isn't my ideal.

lostboysaint

Monty Dog wrote:

Unless the OP has a condition that severely limits mobility, I'd never set up a bike that way for a regular rider. For a start the weight distribution is too far forward meaning cornering hard is likely to result in a front wheel wash-out

Eh? What a complete load of old bollocks. You will get a far more responsive front tyre and an ability to corner it much harder with more weight on it, until the ultimate grip is surpassed. Most people "wash out" the front end because they don't have ENOUGH pressure on the front end so the tyre doesn't generate sufficient grip. This is exacerbated by poor road surfaces/water etc.

drlodge

Some comments here regarding "wrong frame size", which will make not one bit of difference to the saddle setback. The only think it'll change is the amount of seat post sticking out.

I can't think of any situation where the saddle in this position can be the "right" setting, its not even close.

neeb

OP, you really need to ask the fitter WHY he has put your saddle in such an extreme position. What's most difficult to believe here is that you have come away with a setting like that and no understanding of why it is like that. Even if there is some unusual set of circumstances that justifies it, the fitter should have explained to you why he was doing something so extreme, if for no other reason than that 4.5cm is a massive difference in saddle position and if you stuck with it you would need to go through a big adaptation process.

Makes me wonder if the fitting was done by a trainee who has plugged the wrong number into a computer program after measuring you...

Bozman

drlodge wrote:

Some comments here regarding "wrong frame size", which will make not one bit of difference to the saddle setback. The only think it'll change is the amount of seat post sticking out.

I can't think of any situation where the saddle in this position can be the "right" setting, its not even close.

Won't a shorter top tube make any difference then?
It certainly makes a difference on my frame and I tend to buy the frame using top tube length as a guide.

imposter2.0

Bozman wrote:

drlodge wrote:

Some comments here regarding "wrong frame size", which will make not one bit of difference to the saddle setback. The only think it'll change is the amount of seat post sticking out.

I can't think of any situation where the saddle in this position can be the "right" setting, its not even close.

Won't a shorter top tube make any difference then?
It certainly makes a difference on my frame and I tend to buy the frame using top tube length as a guide.

drlodge is right in the sense that saddle positioning should be in relation to the cranks/pedals and not much else. Certainly not in relation to reach.

ugo.santalucia

Grill wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

jordan_217 wrote:

Proff, did you get this done in Cambridge????

Think I see where you are going but the person in question usually recommends putting the seat back and a longer stem which is not what has happened here. I had a bike fit too, was not convinced with the saddle being move forward and have since set it right back so i have more weight over the back wheel than coming forward as before. Bike fit imo is more trial and error than a science (Retul excepted perhaps)

Retul is a guide and is only as good as the person translating it as results. I had a Retul fit done for my TT bike, and even then I've played about and made quite a few changes as the "typical fit" isn't my ideal.

Would it be fair to say that you have thrown away some money in a Retul fit then?

You can clearly see where I stand on the topic of bike fitting as a business

Proff

I took the bike into work last night to show a couple of workmates. Both have been cycling about 30 years. Said they had never seen anything like it.
I do have the stack a bit higher than normal as I have had some lower back issues, but not on the bike.
I know its only a guide, but using a plumb line my knee was way in front of the pedal axle.
They switched my seatpost back to how it should be and moved the saddle forwards. Both agreed that I looked in a lot more natural position on the bike.
Hopefully normal service resumed and lessons learned!!

ugo.santalucia

Proff wrote:

I took the bike into work last night to show a couple of workmates. Both have been cycling about 30 years. Said they had never seen anything like it.
I do have the stack a bit higher than normal as I have had some lower back issues, but not on the bike.
I know its only a guide, but using a plumb line my knee was way in front of the pedal axle.
They switched my seatpost back to how it should be and moved the saddle forwards. Both agreed that I looked in a lot more natural position on the bike.
Hopefully normal service resumed and lessons learned!!

Is there not an association of Bike Fitters & Charlatans like him to report him to? These people pretend to have some form of profession, they should be accountable when they take money to do a job

jonny_trousers

If this legit then fitter really ought to be named; for the sake of your fellow forum users, if for no other reason.

ooermissus

What did he say to you? How did he explain what he was doing to the bike?

Raffles

Proff wrote:

I took the bike into work last night to show a couple of workmates. Both have been cycling about 30 years. Said they had never seen anything like it.
I do have the stack a bit higher than normal as I have had some lower back issues, but not on the bike.
I know its only a guide, but using a plumb line my knee was way in front of the pedal axle.
They switched my seatpost back to how it should be and moved the saddle forwards. Both agreed that I looked in a lot more natural position on the bike.
Hopefully normal service resumed and lessons learned!!

much........much...............much better

Camcycle1974

Take it back to the "fitter", ask for a refund or you will name and shame on here!

t4tomo

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Grill wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

jordan_217 wrote:

Proff, did you get this done in Cambridge????

Think I see where you are going but the person in question usually recommends putting the seat back and a longer stem which is not what has happened here. I had a bike fit too, was not convinced with the saddle being move forward and have since set it right back so i have more weight over the back wheel than coming forward as before. Bike fit imo is more trial and error than a science (Retul excepted perhaps)

Retul is a guide and is only as good as the person translating it as results. I had a Retul fit done for my TT bike, and even then I've played about and made quite a few changes as the "typical fit" isn't my ideal.

Would it be fair to say that you have thrown away some money in a Retul fit then?

You can clearly see where I stand on the topic of bike fitting as a business

I'm with Ugo on this, bike fit is the emporers new clothes / bragging rights amongst unfit dentists as to who spent the most on a bike fit or an overpriced rapha top.

Bike fit is 80% applied common sense and then 20% some tinkering as you ride if things don't feel quite right.

Grill

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Grill wrote:

Camcycle1974 wrote:

jordan_217 wrote:

Proff, did you get this done in Cambridge????

Think I see where you are going but the person in question usually recommends putting the seat back and a longer stem which is not what has happened here. I had a bike fit too, was not convinced with the saddle being move forward and have since set it right back so i have more weight over the back wheel than coming forward as before. Bike fit imo is more trial and error than a science (Retul excepted perhaps)

Retul is a guide and is only as good as the person translating it as results. I had a Retul fit done for my TT bike, and even then I've played about and made quite a few changes as the "typical fit" isn't my ideal.

Would it be fair to say that you have thrown away some money in a Retul fit then?

You can clearly see where I stand on the topic of bike fitting as a business

No because I went in knowing exactly what I wanted to get out of it. All I wanted was a sense of proper positioning in relation to my own morphology. My TT bike also has an ISP, so it was very useful in getting a baseline. From there the tweaks have mainly been reach adjustments for longer TTs (100+ miles) as well as varying stack based upon distance. It was worth the 100 quid and the motion capture was able to definitively point out my asymmetry which I'd long suspected.

I think you get our of fitting what you put into it, but being a former fitter (boots) myself I'm able to make adjustments upon the given baseline to make things perfect.

You got to keep in mind that a lot of people don't know where to start and are weary about taking advice off the internet. We're not all cowboys!

Proff

ooermissus wrote:

What did he say to you? How did he explain what he was doing to the bike?

He said that I sat off the back of the saddle on this bike. On my other bike he said that I sat nearer the centre of the saddle, but he still moved the saddle forward on that by about 2cm. The seatpost on that bike won't flip, so recommended that I get an inline seatpost to bring it forward another 2cm. I aren't going to bother.
Going back to an earlier post regarding 54cm v 56cm. A few years ago I got my first road bike on the bike to work scheme. One of the lads who I work with who I mentioned above told me to get a 54cm frame. I'm the same size as him, a bit heavier though.
When I went to the shop, all the sales staff said no, you should be on a 56cm. Well I thought they can't all be wrong, so after a short test ride, I went with the 56.
Never got on with it. Sore back, numb, tingling finges. Sold it and got a 54 as soon as I could. Miles better.
Like I said no real problems with my bikes. It's just I've joined a club now, the mileage is creeping up and thought it was a good idea to just get the fit checked out to maybe avoid any injury issues in the future.
The bikes are virtually back to where they were. Saddle height up a bit and cleats tweaked a bit.
It has definitely been a waste of money.
I don't think I've really got any come back though. Bike fitting seems very subjective. Look at the replies on here!!
If I complain, the guy will just say, " You came for a bike fit and that's how I think it should be set up for you"
As I said before. Lesson learned!!

Grill

You sat off the back so he moved it forward? Am I missing something?

Unfortunately the fitting is only as good as the fitter. You should ask for your money back and if they say no then name and shame.

Oh and next time go see Adrian Timms

Wirral_paul

As Grill says - why if you're naturally sitting off the back of the saddle did he move it forward by 4.5cm?? Definately go and ask for your money back. If he wont - then name and shame him with a clear conscience. Clearly the guy hasnt got a clue what he's doing - and you're going to be potentially saving other going to the same place.

mrbrightside

This is concerning, a local bike shop to me 'now' advertises bike fitting with fitters who have 'undergone training in London' naturally I'm very dubious of this however the shop is quite popular so no doubt these 'fitters' will get some training on the job.

Grill

One bad fitter does not invalidate the whole profession. If anything it just makes good fitters that much more important.

Alexvs

I had a retul bike fit locally a few weeks ago and couldn't rate them more as we weren't able to get things perfect in one visit due to a part required so he let me go back once I got it and after more tweaking I'm free of the main issues I went in with, those being back, hips and shoulders hurting after 20 or so miles. He also said to let him know how things go with it all once I've got some miles done. For that and the advice he gave it was worth the money for me.

I was recommended to them by another local rider who suffered with their back and after going he now races weekly and has no issues. It's definitely down to the person interpreting the retul results (if it's a retul fit) as it's only a guide to them and if like the one I went to they're trained physios then that's a bonus as I now know about areas that need attention in my flexibility. Oh and I went in thinking my bike was too big and was proven wrong in that the frame was fine for me and I'm now running a longer stem with it slammed and the saddle slightly further back then it started and am now more comfortable then I was. It's easy to convince yourself something's fine if you stick with it long enough or read too much into it on the net but for some like me (less knowledgeable), a bit of technical knowledge can open your eyes.

I definitely wouldn't be happy if I experienced what you have and would definitely go back, there's good fitters out there so these bad apples need highlighting to save others grief for sure.

jonny_trousers

The OP's not going to get his money back, and I can appreciate how embarrassing it would be for him to go ask for it. The fitter is clearly a charlatan, however, and just as bad service at LBS's is often reported here, so too should that of bad cycle fitters.

navrig

If the fit had been done at Halfords this thread would have been twice as long and a posse of BR members would have ridden to the store to ridicule then have him hung, drawn and quartered!!

dennisn

Grill wrote:

My point before was that KOPS is a load of balls.

I tend to agree, but it's been around all these years and with the exception of a few people(Keith Bontrager for one) KOPS has neither been proven or disproven. To my knowledge. Those last three words are the key.

Neil_aky

I have followed the advice in this article and it works for me:

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

There seems to be a lot of pseudo-science in bike fitting and this advice seems much more practical / common sense; also seems to address some of the comments made in this thread.

sloppyschleckonds

Has the OP named the fitter yet?

smidsy

Raffles wrote:

much........much...............much better

looking. That does not mean it is a better fit though does it.

The point is that you need to know how a bike should fit you and only then can you ascertain if you have it set up properly.

Just because something looks right does not mean it fits.