Boardman Air Pro Internal Cable Drama

Proz

Proz wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

1. Pull the old tube out.
2. Thread gear cable into the cockpit-side hole.
3. Get a strong magnet.
4. Place magnet at chainstay-side hole.
5. Attract lose end of gear cable.
6. Pull gear cable through chainstay-side hole.
7. Acquire new tube.
8. Thread new tube onto lose end of gear cable.
9. Push new tube into frame via chainstay-side hole, along the cable until it comes out of the cockpit-side hole.
10. Get frustrated because it's a bit fiddly.
11. Sell it to Ben.
12. Drool over Ben's Boardman Air Pro build photos in "Your Road Bikes".

I cant see how this is done because all I can see is a small section of the tube through the cut outs in the bottom bracket ( lucky if its half an inch ) and I can barely touch it with the tip of a finger ..... pity you were so far away or I'd have paid for your expertise to fix this lol .

drlodge

If this really can't be fixed, can you not just run the FD cable, complete with housing along the entire length, underneath the down tube? It wouldn't look great but with a coloured outer to blend in, and careful routing, it should look too bad at a distance...and it would make the frame usable.

Proz

The chainstay side hole if im following you correctly is near the front derailleur ?
If that's correct the tubes in the frame are about 4 times the size of that hole.
The hole where the cable comes out for the front derailleur is only just big enough for the 2mm braising rod to be rammed down ?
There would be no way of getting any tube down that hole .... Think I need to bang up some images .

Proz

drlodge wrote:

If this really can't be fixed, can you not just run the FD cable, complete with housing along the entire length, underneath the down tube? It wouldn't look great but with a coloured outer to blend in, and careful routing, it should look too bad at a distance...and it would make the frame usable.

My idea was to have everything internal ... all neat and tidy .
That's why I went for this instead of the team carbon frame etc .

Proz

These are the holes I'd have to work with ... you can just see the affected tube ... looks like stainless steel to me maybe ?




And the exit to the front derailleur ... not a very big hole



Id have to shave my fingers to a point to get in here

spasypaddy

have you tried threading the cable reverse from the fd up to the shifter, just to clear the tubing?

drlodge

I think he's tried it from both ends. Where abouts is the blockage?

I'm struggling to think how this tube could become totally blocked, unless something like glue or gunk has got down there and settled at the lowest point. May be try putting some celulose thinners down the tube and see if it dissvolves whatever is blocking it?

Proz

drlodge wrote:

I think he's tried it from both ends. Where abouts is the blockage?

I'm struggling to think how this tube could become totally blocked, unless something like glue or gunk has got down there and settled at the lowest point. May be try putting some celulose thinners down the tube and see if it dissvolves whatever is blocking it?

Using the cable like a dipstick and measuring it external of the frame it stops just where the curl is under the bottom bracket .
If you cut the bottom bracket in half horizontally that seems to be roughly where it stops ... just where the bend in the tube is at its sharpest .... sounds like a clunk as if its hitting something hard when you move the cable up and down .... hitting something anyway ... quite bizzare that 2 bike shops including Halfords who sell the things cant get it either though and I have tried blowing through it and cant when a proper seal round either hole is made .

drlodge

I would guess its either blocked with some fluid substance that set, or crimped. Can you see enough of it with a small mirror to see if the tube is deformed at all?

Proz

drlodge wrote:

I would guess its either blocked with some fluid substance that set, or crimped. Can you see enough of it with a small mirror to see if the tube is deformed at all?

What I can see looks ok to be honest .... there is an area where it straightens up to go up towards the exit for the front derailleur that looks like its covered in what I assume is adhesive maybe used in production to secure it or something ?
It also feels secure and solid so I don't think its moved away from where it should be if that's even possible .
Only thing I can think of is that over a period of time water or the likes has gone down the small exit hole for the front derailleur cable and caused corrosion etc ... I don't know how long its sat with no cable in it or why they were fully removed but maybe I should try and find out .

drlodge

Still reckon its worth putting some cellulose thinners down the tube and leaving overnight to see if it dissolves the blockage.

Or, using a 2mm or so metal rod that will just go through that small hole and is flexible, try and ram the blockage to see if it'll shift.

Proz

drlodge wrote:

Still reckon its worth putting some cellulose thinners down the tube and leaving overnight to see if it dissolves the blockage.

Or, using a 2mm or so metal rod that will just go through that small hole and is flexible, try and ram the blockage to see if it'll shift.

I did try a 2mm braising rod or what ever they are called and it got some ramming but it wasn't very bendy and I have no idea what or where I'd get something like that other than a cable .
Hopefully I'll get the receipt tomorrow and Halfords will play nice and repair or replace .

Bozman

A lot of these ideas could quite easily damage the plastic guide tube because they're not robust, you'll probably find out that it's got an internal kink.
Hopefully the receipt will work and you'll get it sorted.

Proz

Bozman wrote:

A lot of these ideas could quite easily damage the plastic guide tube because they're not robust, you'll probably find out that it's got an internal kink.
Hopefully the receipt will work and you'll get it sorted.

I was quite concerned about that but the ones I can see and touch and that's not very much feel like steel .

bernithebiker

You can buy thin plastic cable that's designed for electricians to thread cables through walls. I have a 30m roll of it, and it's about 2 or 3mm in diameter, I would imagine it comes in different thicknesses.

It's just the right consistency - flexible enough to go round any bend, but stiff enough not to collapse on itself.

vanleapo

What about trying a pipe cleaner (from tobacconist) soaked in something like WD40 / thinners.
If you can get it to the blockage it might be able to dissolve it.
Also if the pipe cleaner comes out clean, then it would suggest the blockage is due to a kink or crushed pipe and not some kind of solids.

ademort

Proz wrote:

drlodge wrote:

Still reckon its worth putting some cellulose thinners down the tube and leaving overnight to see if it dissolves the blockage.

Or, using a 2mm or so metal rod that will just go through that small hole and is flexible, try and ram the blockage to see if it'll shift.

I did try a 2mm braising rod or what ever they are called and it got some ramming but it wasn't very bendy and I have no idea what or where I'd get something like that other than a cable .
Hopefully I'll get the receipt tomorrow and Halfords will play nice and repair or replace .

If you have a 2mm brazing rod and it,s not very bendy as you put it then warm it up a little on the gas stove if you have one. You will find that it bends quite easily and should go into the hole with no problem.
Ademort

Proz

On a slightly different note ( if this frame gets repaired ) will the ultegra groupset I'm waiting to order fit with this bearing at the bottom bracket . I assume that's a pressfit BB30 ?? .
The groupset comes with Hollowtech II but I assume that bit will be no use .

Proz

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

d4evr

Proz wrote:

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

Hot water first perhaps? Could possibly be just dirt/mud?

bernithebiker

d4evr wrote:

Proz wrote:

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

Hot water first perhaps? Could possibly be just dirt/mud?

Syringe with hot water, for more pressure?

Proz

d4evr wrote:

Proz wrote:

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

Hot water first perhaps? Could possibly be just dirt/mud?

Just tried your suggestion PAL and yet again its another miserable fail by myself .
I'll shove it in the boot for tomorrow and let the experts have a ram at it .....

Proz

bernithebiker wrote:

d4evr wrote:

Proz wrote:

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

Hot water first perhaps? Could possibly be just dirt/mud?

Syringe with hot water, for more pressure?

Yep that's the problem ... I don't have anything like a syringe or pressure ... I'm trying to think how I can get round it.

d4evr

Proz wrote:

d4evr wrote:

Proz wrote:

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

Hot water first perhaps? Could possibly be just dirt/mud?

Just tried your suggestion PAL and yet again its another miserable fail by myself .
I'll shove it in the boot for tomorrow and let the experts have a ram at it .....

I reckon we can sort it PAL

Proz

d4evr wrote:

Proz wrote:

d4evr wrote:

Proz wrote:

Ok just a quick update ... this tube is definitely blocked with something ... I have just been trying to blow through it again and not a puff of air will go through either way yet the other two internal routed ways blow through without any resistance .
I think I have some turpentine substitute lying around somewhere so would that do to try and "dissolve" any blockage . I'm scared to do something to the frame that when I take it back to Halfords they say I've done something wrong to it so I've invalidated any warranty. Still waiting on the receipt turning up mind you .

Hot water first perhaps? Could possibly be just dirt/mud?

Just tried your suggestion PAL and yet again its another miserable fail by myself .
I'll shove it in the boot for tomorrow and let the experts have a ram at it .....

I reckon we can sort it PAL

That would be wonderful PAL .... Having been at it for 3 days and many many sore hands and fingers I'm not so sure but I'll try anything .
Glad I didn't order the ultegra groupset yet as I don't think it would fit a press fit or what ever is in the frame just now .
That's a hurdle for another day though .

vanleapo

If you buy a can of GT85 / WD40 they come with a little straw. I suspect they might be the perfect size to send a blast of fluid to area which is blocked, which will hopefully clear the blockage.

Ben6899

Proz, apologies the tube is a different type to what I imagined so my solution won't work in this case. I still think this is fixable though - my bet is that it's a blockage.

Hollowtech II BB in a BB30 shell can be done, but you'll need an adaptor. Praxis make the one with the best reviews.

paul_mck

i dont think air/liquid etc will clear a blockage that a steel cable wont.

Ben6899

paul_mck wrote:

i dont think air/liquid etc will clear a blockage that a steel cable wont.

The correct type of liquid would. Proz has tried solder and the gear cable itself, neither of which are particularly stiff/the best tool for pushing through some blocking material.

Crozza

this sounds like a really frustrating problem!

do you know any plumbers? we've just had one round and he had a fibre optic camera thing that could look down tubes to fund corrosion/leaks - would be perfect for this sort of thing