the nhs

245

Posts

  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    The charging you if you rock up due to alcohol related incidents might be an idea - certainly don't think it would meet any resistance from the militant nurses union. Don't think it would meet with any dissent from the vast majority of the public either. There is/was some statistic to say that something like 80% of A&E admissions between Friday and Monday are down to alcohol... something like 60% overall, if I recall correctly.

    And to be fair, the culture has changed in recent years to A&E being the default primary care/diagnosis place of choice - if you ring 111 they'll default to telling you to go to A&E long before they'll send the out of hours GP round.
    So I go out with some pals have a few bevvies and the des driver has a smash and I end up in A&E. Why should I be charged a £100?

    I've had loads of visits to A&E usually through sporting incidents or very occasionally work related. I had to wait my turn but so what I got mended on that day.

    Yes, it would be a bloody nightmare to administrate, but if you want an example of unnecessary drag on the system, pop into Brighton A&E on a late Saturday afternoon during the summer - it's like a bloody zoo; heatstroke, sunburn, alcohol, and injuries from fighting or falling off things whilst suffering from the above.
    Therefore more admin, which is one of the things folk moan about the NHS.

    Yes there are idiots in A&E and time wasters but that's the nature of the department and th public I'm affraid. Hand on heart I can say neither I nor anyone of my family have made a needless visit to A&E.

    I suppose it's about opinions, I know my gaffer was not very chuffed when I lost time at work due to sporting injuries but A&E didn't consider me a problem.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • RiggedRigged Posts: 214
    Words can't express how much I appreciate our NHS. Sure, it's not the perfect model for the system, but it's a damn site better than a lot of the alternatives. I can't say too much more without going into my medical history on a public forum but suffice to say it's done a hell of a lot for me and any criticism is far outweighed by the good it does. That's not to say we shouldn't strive to improve it further, of course we should, but it does make my blood boil when I see people paint a picture of it as though it were a completely failed institution.

    I'm truly grateful for everything the staff and system has given for me.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 13,026
    We can all recount stories, good and bad about the NHS. It is by no means perfect, but I don't know the answer to its ills.
    People cite the US model as being better, but good treatment is not universal there either.
    My sis in law and her husband reside there and get medical insurance through work. A visit to the doc results in a charge of $30, as their contribution to the cost. The insurance picks up the other $270.
    A trip to the hospital means a bill for $600.
    There is however a ceiling of $6000 per year for patient contributions. Any subsequent visits to the doc/hospital are free, once this threshold is reached. That is, until the start of the next year.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    Rigged wrote:
    Words can't express how much I appreciate our NHS. Sure, it's not the perfect model for the system, but it's a damn site better than a lot of the alternatives. I can't say too much more without going into my medical history on a public forum but suffice to say it's done a hell of a lot for me and any criticism is far outweighed by the good it does. That's not to say we shouldn't strive to improve it further, of course we should, but it does make my blood boil when I see people paint a picture of it as though it were a completely failed institution.

    I'm truly grateful for everything the staff and system has given for me.
    Here here.

    The NHS is I believe the fourth largest employer in the world (massive to say the least) there are bound to be inefficiencies and issues. Indeed I have a mate who is, reluctantly sueing them at the moment but he still believes it's a great institution. Ironically his wife is an NHS employee.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • clickrumbleclickrumble Posts: 304
    I've lived for a while in the US. I echo most of the comments above about the treatment in the equivalent of A&E there, it's good, but you must be prepared to pay a large bill, and don't get get seriously ill, you'll have to sell your house to pay for the treatment. My concern about the NHS is that it's rapidly being privatised and there are plenty of unscrupulous people out there wanting to pick up a part of it and make money.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,889
    From my recent experiences, I'd say that the treatment has been great, the admin truly terrible. A letter accidentally sent to my Nan informed her that her illness was terminal (it wasn't) and she never even got an apology for such a distressing experience. OTOH, the NHS did save her life.

    Compared to other countries I know of, I'd say that the NHS is by far the best system in terms of preventative disease - the French will just give you medicine for anything, even if you'd be better off without. The USA is ridiculous for doling out the medicine. I'd much sooner have a doctor telling me to change my diet.
  • dynamicbrickdynamicbrick Posts: 460
    Well, despite my experiences, I'd still rather have the NHS than not.

    The basic premise remains the same, a premise which is something worth holding onto; that no matter who you are, where you are, and what's wrong with you, some nice men and women will endeavour to put you back together again, without charging you a penny.

    As I said earlier though - the NHS will never really look at itself critically, and no politician dare touch it other than to just tinker around the edges. It runs the very real risk of never being efficient, or value for the vast sums of money it consumes, and things like MRSA, Mid-Staffs, etc etc, will continue to haunt it.
  • Drfabulous0Drfabulous0 Posts: 1,539
    I've never had much issue personally with the NHS despite many many hospital visits. Only the waiting bothers me, 12 hours once in A&E, but I have learned that if you just call 999 you will get a lift and be seen straight away. If you don't need to call 999 then you don't need to go to A&E, just go home, sober up and meditate on rule 5.

    However my wife's friend was recently told by a midwife when she was 16 weeks pregnant that her baby was dead, when in fact there was nothing wrong with it and a colleague of mine was told he had terminal cancer and weeks to live when in fact he also had nothing wrong with him. So I guess it'censored or miss.
  • MountainMonsterMountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    All these reasons are why I am thankful I am healthy and, knock on wood, never end up in A&E. I hardly even go to get medicine or visit the doctor unless I am half dead.
  • FatTedFatTed Posts: 1,214
    This article in Time magazine will make us all glad we do not need treatment in the US, I don't know how to get the free copy
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 64,00.html
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    All these reasons are why I am thankful I am healthy and, knock on wood, never end up in A&E. I hardly even go to get medicine or visit the doctor unless I am half dead.
    Long may your good health continue sir.

    However I take it your mother gave birth to you under NHS supervision and I assume you've had all kinds of various innoculations/immunisations, dental treatment GP visits etc things that your post highlight people take for granted (not having a dig at you fella). I'm just making the point even people who have "never used the NHS" have actually used it quite a lot without appreciating that fact.

    LONG LIVE THE NHS. :D
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • MountainMonsterMountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    All these reasons are why I am thankful I am healthy and, knock on wood, never end up in A&E. I hardly even go to get medicine or visit the doctor unless I am half dead.
    Long may your good health continue sir.

    However I take it your mother gave birth to you under NHS supervision and I assume you've had all kinds of various innoculations/immunisations, dental treatment GP visits etc things that your post highlight people take for granted (not having a dig at you fella). I'm just making the point even people who have "never used the NHS" have actually used it quite a lot without appreciating that fact.

    LONG LIVE THE NHS. :D

    Nope, i'm born and raised in North Carolina back in the states where all my vaccines were done. Last round of vaccinations was in Austria where I lived for a few years. In total I have cost the NHS probably £15 in admin fees. I have turned up at our local hospital once to get my hand snapped back into place after breaking it, stayed a total of an hour without being spoken to, spoke to a nurse and explained i'm not staying however long it takes until I get seen so she can cross me off the list. I am registered with a GP, but I just don't get sick! I hate going to doctors of any sorts, so unless I am throwing up blood or pooping out cats I don't bother :)

    I can see your point though!
  • MountainMonsterMountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    Oh, and I certainly refuse to go to a NHS dentist. That is if you can even find one! I just prefer to go private as the quality of care is much better than an NHS dentist!
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    The NHS is great but over stretched.
    I have private healthcare because I need to do what's best for me (selfish but I only have one life)
    2 years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer and the NHS had me in quickly and then I decided to use the private side and was treated and had the operation (nothing mega) done within 5 days.
    I've had aftercare from my doctor as I had a lump 6 months later and he had me in the same day and assured me all was good and a test has proved all is ok so from both sides I've never had bad service.

    My son was diagnosed type 1 diabetic in November, they had him in hospital (NHS) same day and his care has been outstanding. They have done many follow ups and even come out to the house several times.
    We get good value, people are just living longer which means its only going to get worse in general.

    NHS is great, they just can't grow with demand.
    Living MY dream.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    Oh, and I certainly refuse to go to a NHS dentist. That is if you can even find one! I just prefer to go private as the quality of care is much better than an NHS dentist!
    Only had one bad experience at the NHS dentist I visit and he was a locum. He looked like Sadam Hussain and took the care of Laurence Olivier in marathon man. :lol:
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    VTech wrote:
    The NHS is great but over stretched.
    I have private healthcare because I need to do what's best for me (selfish but I only have one life)
    2 years ago I was diagnosed with testicular cancer and the NHS had me in quickly and then I decided to use the private side and was treated and had the operation (nothing mega) done within 5 days.
    I've had aftercare from my doctor as I had a lump 6 months later and he had me in the same day and assured me all was good and a test has proved all is ok so from both sides I've never had bad service.

    My son was diagnosed type 1 diabetic in November, they had him in hospital (NHS) same day and his care has been outstanding. They have done many follow ups and even come out to the house several times.
    We get good value, people are just living longer which means its only going to get worse in general.

    NHS is great, they just can't grow with demand.
    It will never have enough money even if not a single penny was wasted. It covers so many aspects of the nations care it'll always need more.
    Private health can cherry pick what they're going to deal with and steer well clear of anything that's going to be a drain on resourses. Then if it goes wrong, well.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    NHS " Free at the point of access" Should it be?

    Sorry to come across all Daily Mail reader here, but just a few points and observations.

    Firstly listening to Radio 5 live yesterday, was struck by the comment that many Doctors receptionists become overwhelmed or spend vast amounts of time discerning the eligibility of immigrants to health care services, to such an extent that they simply don't bother or don't have the time.

    The Government is now asking Doctors, Doctors receptionists et al to now be the Gatekeepers of such entitlements as they have simply lost the plot of doing the job themselves.

    Secondly, Last year during a period of temporary employment, I was working in a factory environment were 90% of the workforce were Polish or Eastern European.. (Fair play it was dirty work and I can Imagine that a large proportion of unemployed British residents would not have touched it with a barge pole, and all the workers were paying NI and PAYE so no problems there)

    However 2 of the lads openly admitted that they were topping up a carers allowance they were claiming also, having come across from Poland to care for Family members who came over to the UK for the sole intention of receiving Cancer treatments on the NHS.

    Now why I empathise with this situation and would personally do anything to insure the health of my loved ones,
    Should such inequalities exist across the European Union in Health Care entitlements to create situations such as this.

    I also in balance have friends who have travelled to Bulgaria for dental work and even Russia for eye surgery (which they paid for)

    I travel within the E.U with nothing more than my NHS health card as cover so I suppose that's no different in practice.

    The NHS and Education have finite resources and finances. I ve done voluntary work in a primary school in Lincoln where all of the Teaching Assistant provision was taken up by new receptions needing support with English as a second language.

    Surely some NI credit should be established before access to such services is granted?
    Or the Country of origin should be forced to make a contribution per capitae of people from that Country which we take over the care of, thus lessening their own costs and liability whilst extending those of the UK.
  • fossyantfossyant Posts: 2,549
    edited May 2013
    Generally Very good. There are far too many people who waste the NHS's time though.

    Got my shoulder fixed, but did take a long time, I also have a good NHS dentist too.

    I have found that they aren't geared up for fit people with problems, especially those that are still active and carry on. Seen similar with colleagues who participate in sport, and brushed them off despie some serious issues.

    Some issues though:-

    Family member had a stroke, wasn't seen to properly in Hospital - lack of response and treatment. Took 48 hours before they did anything. They walked into hosptial, now left disabled.

    Me:- I had the snip 7 months ago. Never again. I knew there were some risks of problems, the GP doing the op completely dismissed any issues. Had a few post op problems like you would expect but there is a significant risk (1 in 10 - it's now on the NHS web site) that get long term pain. No-one knows what to do - it's called a 'syndrome'. I was due to get all my pipes removed from one ball recently, but cancelled due to work commitments. It's looking like all the pipework will need removing from both as I am in agony with them (pain, swelling etc. etc). There is only a 50% chance it will work, and it's likely I'll be off work and the bike for some time. All for a stupid little procedure. Unfortunately, there is no research in this area, even though it's common. They don't know how to fix it. Might be better to get them removed ! So hissed off ! Not an operation I would recommend. What should be a couple of day's discomfort, isn't for 10% - if you are one of them then tough ! Way too haigh a failure rate that's brushed under the carpet.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    fossyant wrote:
    Generally Very good.

    Got my shoulder fixed, but did take a long time, have a good NHS dentist too. They aren't geared up for fit people with problems, especially those that are still active and carry on.

    I had the snip 7 months ago. Never again. The NHS don't know what to do when you are the 1 in 10 that get's long term pain. Was due to get all my pipes removed from one ball recently, but cancelled due to work commitments. It's looking like all the pipework will need removing from both as I am in agony with them (pain, swelling etc. etc). There is only a 50% chance it will work, and it's likely I'll be off work and the bike for some time. All for a stupid little procedure. Unfortunately, there is no research in this area, even though it's common. They don't know how to fix it. Might be better to get them removed ! So hissed off !


    Eyes watering on that one for you mate, sorry to hear that.

    Was surprised a couple of years ago , that when I went for my Vasectomy my NHS Doctor referred me to a private clinic who did the job. Was riding the bike again within 48 hours, just to prove a point.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 6,790
    You didn't cycle home from the op? Lightweight.
  • fossyantfossyant Posts: 2,549
    bompington wrote:
    You didn't cycle home from the op? Lightweight.

    I couldn't have even driven - the guy made a total balls up (pardon the pun). The guy doing it was a qualified GP but hadn't done many snips before. I complained officially, but got dismissed. The funny thing is, the main GP has said he has had no men with problems in the thousands he has done. He has the contract for the area. YET, go to the local Urology department at the Hospital in the same trust, and the answer is "Oh yes we see quite alot of men after the snip" WTF. One Department doesn't talk to another.
  • GreggerGregger Posts: 71
    The NHS was a great idea but has become a Behemoth of our own creation

    A&E - "full of attention seekers and hypochondriacs". It often is. But why should it cover you when you fall off you race bike or MTB? I used to provide medical cover for a motor racing circuit. A racer falls off doing his "recreation" and expects the NHS ie; me and you to pay for his fractured leg. Surely it was designed for illness?

    You come off a motobike "at 100mph". so your speeding and you expect everyone to pick up the bill for your reckless ness?

    Should a vasectomy be covered by NHS, your not ill after all. we spend less on cancer care etc because you choose to have an operation rather than buy a condom. (And should we spend millions on infertility treatment - is that an illnees - it wont kill you)

    Breast cancer is well covered, had millions chucked at it as its a womens problem. Go with your male prosate cancer and see the standards of care.

    You have a heart attack and expect it to look after you. Sod the fact you smoke and are overweight.

    Your BMI is 35 and you develop diabetes cos your a lazy sod, yet me and you have to pay.

    They may be 45 mins behind at 9 cos they start at 8 and a patient needed the time. Perhaps they'd just been told they had cancer too. I bet you wanted as long as needed for your consultations? The sacrifice is you may have to wait for someone else too

    Mistakes are made. Have none of you never made a mistake in your jobs then?

    There is no collective responsibility. Lots of almost NIMBYism in this post. The NHS cant clearly cover everything (unless its my problems). But there is no concencus as to what is should cover and no political will to do so as its political suicide

    A great idea, but the very year it was created it was over run. Its a right old millstone but I cant see any way out.
  • tim wandtim wand Posts: 2,945
    To some of your points , I agree.

    The NHS should afford equality of health to all. Those that can , or choose to go private, great, I m sure you have worked hard or chosen well to allow that option.

    I don't see why someone who is in Social Economic group 1 should have more chance of surviving Cancer than someone in Social economic group 5.

    However there are and always will be inequalities in health, whether through poor education or low finances , you will also find that people in Socio Economic group 5 are those most likely to need health care interventions but paradoxically those least able to access them.

    The NHS should be the insurance to right this inequality.

    Those who have made life style decisions (extreme sports, drinking, smoking, sedentary lifestyles, poor diet) which give them a higher propensity to require health care should not be excluded, but they need to accept and possibly provision some responsibility for their care above the norm.

    Every one should be afforded a certain amount of credit and access to health care services but anyone who continually abuses that access through making the wrong choices should initially be supported to make changes.
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    I've heard in arguments on question time that if people were charged for alcohol related injustices and time at A&E it would be a 30% saving to the NHS.
    I've. I idea if this is true but I have no problem with charging people for self inflicted injuries.
    Living MY dream.
  • Gregger wrote:

    A&E - "full of attention seekers and hypochondriacs". It often is. But why should it cover you when you fall off you race bike or MTB? I used to provide medical cover for a motor racing circuit. A racer falls off doing his "recreation" and expects the NHS ie; me and you to pay for his fractured leg. Surely it was designed for illness?

    it should cover me cos i pay a shitload of tax. if im heavily bleeding, i would expect to be seen, at least assesed within 5 hours, or at least given something to scoop up, staunch, or cathc the blood, rather than it running down onto my shirt or dripping on the floor. what if i had some sort of blood disease?

    the route problem is probably GP's and there lack of out of hours working. most people in A&E should see their GP, i thnik most, at least the elderly, would, but now GP's work 9-5, that aint going to happen.

    the whole healthcare system needs looking at.
  • ooermissusooermissus Posts: 811
    Making people wait saves a shed of money - especially for GP appointments - as lots of people get better on their own and don't need treatment. A&E too, as many more people would turn up without especially serious injuries if they knew they'd get seen in 10 minutes.
  • disagree to a certain extent ooer, old people wouldnt be discouraged. it gives them something to do...same reason they go supermarket shopping at the weekend, when theyve had all week to do it.
  • GreggerGregger Posts: 71
    GPs were offered £3,50 a year per patient to look after you 6pm -8am all year. You wonder why they said no.

    I too pay lots of tax. But if choose a safer hobby, say birdwatching, why should I pay for you and your desire for something more dangerous

    Again if we spend lots stiching up blokes falling of any form of bike for recreation, we spend less on cancer care and the elderly.

    Hence an NHs which has out grown its origins.

    We cant have it both ways. Oh unless you want to pay more tax and who does.
  • BozmanBozman Posts: 2,570
    In Derby I must have had over a dozen operations in the last 25 years, over 100 appointments and I can't fault them, from porters to consultants the staff are fantastic and Derby Royal is a cracking hospital.
    My health centre(Doctors) is very good, if you ring in the morning you'll get an appointment that day so I can't complain.

    On the negative side, I've been to Burton hospital twice and on both occasions they've missed fractures, I've heard similar stories so I can see why Burton Hospital is rated so poorly.

    I would like to see charges introduced for missed appointments and your weekend drunken brigade in A&E, probably £10 for a missed appointment and £100 for the drunks.
  • i would happily pay more tax. once the welfare system has been improved and our borders tightened.
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