There is a god, Clifford charged with sex offences
arthur_scrimshaw
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And BruceyAnd the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.0
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Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:
Why do you wish it so?
That means that you hope he did abuse women or even kids?
You hope there were victims of abuse?
Strange mind you have.0 -
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Ballysmate wrote:Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:
Why do you wish it so?
That means that you hope he did abuse women or even kids?
You hope there were victims of abuse?
Strange mind you have.
You read into it what you want, I'm not revelling in the victims pain, just the hypocrisy of the 'alleged' abusers.0 -
Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:Ballysmate wrote:Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:
Why do you wish it so?
That means that you hope he did abuse women or even kids?
You hope there were victims of abuse?
Strange mind you have.
You read into it what you want, I'm not revelling in the victims pain, just the hypocrisy of the 'alleged' abusers.
There you go again. Revelling in the misery of ALLEGED abusers. They may be innocent.
And no, I'm not defending abuse or abusers. If they are guilty they deserve no sympathy and should be punished accordingly. Just lets wait until they have been found guilty, that's all.0 -
Well I think they've dished out a fair bit of misery between them over the years, enough for me not to have any sympathy for their plight. If they're innocent then no doubt the papers will be reporting it in due time to put the record straight.0
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Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:Well I think they've dished out a fair bit of misery between them over the years, enough for me not to have any sympathy for their plight. If they're innocent then no doubt the papers will be reporting it in due time to put the record straight.
The bottom line is still that you want the abuse to have taken place.
They had just better hope that you are not called for jury service to hear their cases.
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Well please point out exactly where I said that? You can infer whatever you like, and you have.0
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Arthur Scrimshaw wrote:Well please point out exactly where I said that? You can infer whatever you like, and you have.
I inferred it because you implied it.
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ok, I surrender 0
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I think it was taken out of context as no one who has posted here really wanted anything bad to have taken place but more over just felt it ironic that Clifford has been charged.
I for one just can't feel that he would have been so stupid to have done this. He has so many enemies from over the years that he would have been hit many years ago with claims but now is charged ???
It is all so odd to me. In his position with his vast fortune you don't need to abuse people when there are plenty of there willing to offer whatever you need. Ill wait for the £5,000,000 court case that we will all be paying for and pass a slight chuckle as he walks free from court (not because I know he is either innocent or guilty) but because this whole farce of yewtree has become a laughing stock of Europe.Living MY dream.0 -
As much as i despise the man, this operation Yewtree business is becoming quite damaging.
'Alleged Abuse' is so subjective. He could be implicated merely for a 'look' or suggestive comment to someone that made them uncomfortable 30 odd years ago and he get's tarred with the Saville brush.
When he inevitably gets cleared of all charges, it will be a tiny footnote on the article implicating the next middle-aged celebrity. Justice? Hardly.
Either way, he'll rot in hell.0 -
VTech wrote:I think it was taken out of context as no one who has posted here really wanted anything bad to have taken place but more over just felt it ironic that Clifford has been charged.
VTech, I know no-one wanted anything bad to have taken place, and I was just teasing the original poster, who if you are reading
But the principle that I pointed out remains true. You can't extricate cause from effect. People, myself included, have a habit of saying something without considering the ramifications.
Oh and for the record, I think Max Clifford comes across as a slime ball, but time will tell if he is guilty of sex crimes.
As regards Yewtree, time will also tell if people suffered real abuse or are just coming out of the woodwork, as they smell a payday.0 -
Ohh im with you on the Max Clifford thoughts. I dont really like the man and he has got loads of bad people off negatives that have surrounded them but my comments were really aimed at the way yewtree is operating.
Im all for locking away the baddies but in modern times you only need to be accused to be a baddie and that is where our society is failing.
Whatever happened to innocent until being proved guilty ?
Or anonymity ?
To me its all wrong, no matter who is being charged or questioned.
I dont think this info is for the public domain.Living MY dream.0 -
Don't give a monkeys - I got the top 5 posts!seanoconn - gruagach craic!0
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No fan of Max Clifford but is it 27 years ago was the most recent of the allegations WHY has it taken so long for the victims to come forward. Bearing in mind there are several of them Clifford was not a man of the influence of Savile so I would have thought perhaps we wouldn't have had to wait so long.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Frank the tank wrote:No fan of Max Clifford but is it 27 years ago was the most recent of the allegations WHY has it taken so long for the victims to come forward. Bearing in mind there are several of them Clifford was not a man of the influence of Savile so I would have thought perhaps we wouldn't have had to wait so long.
Maybe because he's been so successful at keeping nonentities on the front pages for so long he's cunningly managed to keep himself off them. Just a thought.0 -
couldn't have happened to a nicer breed of pond life imo ...0
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giant man wrote:couldn't have happened to a nicer breed of pond life imo ...
We seem to have gone full circle. I think this is where I came in , above. :roll:0 -
Ballysmate wrote:VTech wrote:I think it was taken out of context as no one who has posted here really wanted anything bad to have taken place but more over just felt it ironic that Clifford has been charged.
VTech, I know no-one wanted anything bad to have taken place, and I was just teasing the original poster, who if you are reading
But the principle that I pointed out remains true. You can't extricate cause from effect. People, myself included, have a habit of saying something without considering the ramifications.
Oh and for the record, I think Max Clifford comes across as a slime ball, but time will tell if he is guilty of sex crimes.
As regards Yewtree, time will also tell if people suffered real abuse or are just coming out of the woodwork, as they smell a payday.
I don't think you were "just teasing" the OP, you are being just cynical.
In my eyes, you proved your own statement with your replies to the OP
I read the post and I thought the OP was referring to the tax avoidance allegations against Max Clifford that he seemed to get away with a few years ago. In that context, I can perfectly understand what the OP said about there being a god.0 -
RRSODL wrote:Ballysmate wrote:VTech wrote:I think it was taken out of context as no one who has posted here really wanted anything bad to have taken place but more over just felt it ironic that Clifford has been charged.
VTech, I know no-one wanted anything bad to have taken place, and I was just teasing the original poster, who if you are reading
But the principle that I pointed out remains true. You can't extricate cause from effect. People, myself included, have a habit of saying something without considering the ramifications.
Oh and for the record, I think Max Clifford comes across as a slime ball, but time will tell if he is guilty of sex crimes.
As regards Yewtree, time will also tell if people suffered real abuse or are just coming out of the woodwork, as they smell a payday.
I don't think you were "just teasing" the OP, you are being just cynical.
In my eyes, you proved your own statement with your replies to the OP
I read the post and I thought the OP was referring to the tax avoidance allegations against Max Clifford that he seemed to get away with a few years ago. In that context, I can perfectly understand what the OP said about there being a god.
If i was being cynical I would point out that you appear if not pleased at least content, that girls between 14 and 19 were abused so that Clifford can be punished for tax avoidance. But I'm not, so I won't.
I'm perfectly aware that you and I hope, no-one on here would want people, particularly children, to have suffered in any way, but the original post was open to that interpretation. I just pointed that out.
I would also like to re-state that I think Clifford a slimey piece of work. Have to admit, I honestly can't remember Clifford's tax arrangements nor Davidson's.0 -
Cornerblock wrote:Frank the tank wrote:No fan of Max Clifford but is it 27 years ago was the most recent of the allegations WHY has it taken so long for the victims to come forward. Bearing in mind there are several of them Clifford was not a man of the influence of Savile so I would have thought perhaps we wouldn't have had to wait so long.
Maybe because he's been so successful at keeping nonentities on the front pages for so long he's cunningly managed to keep himself off them. Just a thought.
Or the police not acting in the interest of the victims.
I know a case where the daughter of somebody I know was molested when she was 7 by a close family friend. When she was 15 she wrote a letter to her parents to tell them what had happened. The police were informed, parents were interviewed and the man arrested. The common denominator was that too long had passed and they could not prove it. The guy said he was at work and the Police couldn't or didn't try hard enough to get the records that he was not. The Police were all excuses, that the bank didn't keep records that old, that Waitrose had destroyed the records, etc, etc. There were a few things that happened in that investigation that I cannot mention here but were absolutely shocking. I followed that case very closely at the time and since then my faith in the police is ZERO.
So people shouldn't be so quick to judge victims that didn't come forward before.0 -
I'm not sure charges of child abuse (putting the suffering of kids aside for a moment) is the right outcome of someone not breakin the law but instead using loopholes to pay lower taxes either. !
What goes around certainly comes around but maybe a BA deal costing him a few million woul be the right outcome but not this.
He has upset many people in the last and I'm worldly enough to realise that this is almost certainly a major factor in why he has been charged. I have no idea if he did or didn't abuse, I just think it wrong for the media to be able to give details, however vague about it until after the trial.
When you look at it in the eyes of the law, he has only ever done the same with his clients, trying to calm the waters of those accused and not yet found guilty.
I'm no fan, but he is only here because the law is such an ass.Living MY dream.0 -
RRSODL
I am truly sorry to hear about the incident you mentioned and there is nothing I can possibly say about that case. Just like to wish her well.
The point that people have tried to make is that time is on the side of the perpetrator, not the victim. These cases are difficult to prove when the evidence is fresh, nigh on impossible with the passage of time.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:RRSODL
I am truly sorry to hear about the incident you mentioned and there is nothing I can possibly say about that case. Just like to wish her well.
The point that people have tried to make is that time is on the side of the perpetrator, not the victim. These cases are difficult to prove when the evidence is fresh, nigh on impossible with the passage of time.
Nail on head really.
I doubt anyone here or anywhere would want someone to wt away with such a crime but the reason these cases fail is mainly down to time.
There is another HUGE factor that's not worth mentioning here when it comes to adult rape of woman which stops so many victims making a claim.
This is such a heinous crime that its always difficult to get through.
Media, gold diggers etc etc are not punished enough which in turn destroys genuine claims as people feel either scared to make a claim or others don't believe enough.Living MY dream.0 -
The other side of the coin is that if you are falsely/erroneously accused of an offence that happened years ago, it must be hellishly difficult to categorically clear your name.There may be insufficient evidence to convict but if you can't definitively clear your name, mud sticks.0
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Ballysmate wrote:The other side of the coin is that if you are falsely/erroneously accused of an offence that happened years ago, it must be hellishly difficult to categorically clear your name.There may be insufficient evidence to convict but if you can't definitively clear your name, mud sticks.
This is exactly why I made my first post here.
One of my neighbours is Freddie Star, the media are around quite a lot lately and giving the whole family hell, even turning up at the local school where his grandkid goes (my sons school). This isn't just or right.Living MY dream.0 -
The court of public opinion is very damaging in sex abuse cases but I believe anonymity has been waived for these individuals in the hope that more victims come forward. If they did it then they don't deserve to rest easy in retirement but the potential damage to an innocent man's life should always outweigh the desire for justice in my eyes, so I find it hard to know how this investigation should have proceeded.
I doubt that this investigation is the laughing stock of Europe. If it was then it would say more about Europe that us. There should be no statute of limitations for such crimes, and no unofficial limitation on these investigations against people who caused trauma to many young kids.0 -
The problem is, once associated with these crimes it is almost impossible to separate from them, regardless of being innocent.
We should know that someone prominent has been arrested and until conviction that person should not be named.
We are indeed a laughing stock because we inevitably spend millions of £££ on the same issues (not just sex abuse cases but all sorts) of which the outcome is a joke and the guilty will almost always walk regardless. We will then all moan about the money its cost.
People moaned about the cost of the thatcher burial but this issue will cost us tens and tens of millions and mark my words, not many will be found guilty of any offences.Living MY dream.0 -
Uncovering the stories is important for shaping our culture. I don't like the idea of going back to the 70s where abuse could go on without fear of censure, so carry on splashing the cash so that old abusers never know when they may get a knock on the door in the middle of the night. I bet it is a hell of a lot easier for a kid to complain about abuse now precisely because of Operation Yewtree.0
