What FTP needed to compete in 2/3/4 races?

Setarkos

According to your blog, you got 6th in March at Hog Hill after a non-ideal race - probably doing too much at the front ("your bit") and cramping. So I'm not sure if I see your problem.
If you keep racing regularly, you'll easily make it 2nd cat and you'll get better in the process.

trickydisco

At the minute I only get average about 8 hours a week in during the season , It's all I reasonably have time to do.

I know 2 elite roadies that put in a max of 8 hrs a week

Setarkos

trickydisco wrote:

I know 2 elite roadies that put in a max of 8 hrs a week

I'd say anything under 10h is an exception though among elite and 1st cat riders.

okgo

Setarkos wrote:

trickydisco wrote:

I know 2 elite roadies that put in a max of 8 hrs a week

I'd say anything under 10h is an exception though among elite and 1st cat riders.

Depends how they got to elite doesn't it. Racing 30 point 1 hour crits each week with 8 teammates is not quite the same as smashing national b' 85 milers each weekend. To do the former you could get by on very few hours training I would have thought. Obviously they have now done away with the excessive points, but lots of people made that level through that sort of thing and have now kept the 1st cat ticket...

My goal is 1st cat and I don't often do much more than 10 hours a week, of course I may not get there. A pretty decent rider who rides for felt recently said he only does 8 hours a week and he wins road races quite often...

Setarkos

I'm not saying they don't exist and that it's impossible to get there - especially if you focus on quality training and minimize junk miles but from my experience it is rather rare.
And many of those who go down to 10h/week during race season do 20h/week until April.
I don't know what the points system used to be but to get 200 points and make 1st cat you would have to get 10 Top10s at National Bs, that is not so easy...

okgo

No, there are other ways though, and previously you got 30 pts for winning an e123 crit that lasted an hour. Or you can win 2/3 road races at 30 pts a pop, you could very well get there without ever getting a point in a nat b road race, though you'd be pretty fooked when you got there if that was the case I would have thought

jibberjim

Setarkos wrote:

He is 57kg and doesn't have much experience racing...

Ah, he's pretty screwed then

ollie51

trickydisco wrote:

At the minute I only get average about 8 hours a week in during the season , It's all I reasonably have time to do.

I know 2 elite roadies that put in a max of 8 hrs a week

Those 'elite' riders were probably born to be faster than me then. The same way Wiggins or Nibali could still destroy me if they rode their bikes once a week for the next year.

trickydisco

Depends how they got to elite doesn't it. Racing 30 point 1 hour crits each week with 8 teammates is not quite the same as smashing national b' 85 milers each weekend. To do the former you could get by on very few hours training I would have thought

well he's been ranked top 10 in the elites in the last few years.. and done some of the premier calendar races. Amazes me how little training he does

markwb79

Setarkos wrote:

trickydisco wrote:

I know 2 elite roadies that put in a max of 8 hrs a week

I'd say anything under 10h is an exception though among elite and 1st cat riders.

How much of those 8 or 10 hours a week are doing intervals? Z4 and above though?

I really can never understand the balance needed. I put in 10hours a week, but 4 or 5 of them are on a long Sunday ride, would you could them towards the total?

Setarkos

There are so many different philosophies and approaches to this and you also have to adapt to how your legs feel. Please excuse the rather unstructured post that is to follow:

When I race every Sunday say, then I'd do a recovery ride on Monday, intervals on Tuesday, Wednesday depends (probably Sweet Spot), Thursday endurance, Friday recovery, Saturday taper.
Or Wednesday easy and Thursday intervals again.
Or Tuesday off, Wednesday/Thursday intervals, Friday recovery.
You'll have to experiment what works best for you.

Right know I am a fan of polarized training, that would mean about 70-80% endurance rides and the rest HIT-sessions.
A week could look like this: Sunday race, Monday recovery, Tuesday HIT, Wednesday L2, Thursday HIT, Friday off/recovery, Saturday taper
Although that might be a bit to intense and giving that Sunday is race you can do just one HIT during the week.

During season I'm not a big fan of doing L4 - I would put an L4 block in March. Sprint drills you can fit into endurance rides and the interval sessions would be L5/L6 depending on your race analysis and what your limiters are. I also use L5-blocks to introduce a peak.

Given that you do a regular 4-5h Sunday ride it doesn't sound as if you're racing though so I'd have to ask you what your goals are. Generally though I would always favour two rides totalling 4-5h hours instead of just one ride of that duration but I realise that this is a time budget question.

Herbsman

How exactly do you 'taper' on one day?

Setarkos

Herbsman wrote:

How exactly do you 'taper' on one day?

Probably a misuse of the word. Maybe I should call it preload? That would be the literal translation...

I usually refer to whatever period is assigned to being at your best at the race rather than general fitness as "tapering". Eg. on the day before a race when I rest, my legs feel heavy on race day so I go out for 60-90 minutes do a few bursts a few short intervals to prepare my legs. The workout does not aid fitness or form (or freshness in the TSB-sense).

If it's a long race (>200km alpine) I do up to 2h with at least one decent L4 interval but I might be a bit weird in that sense and also require more (longer more intense) warm-up for TTs than most others. Although almost everybody I know performs better if the have ridden a bit the day before an event instead of resting.

markwb79

Setarkos wrote:

There are so many different philosophies and approaches to this and you also have to adapt to how your legs feel. Please excuse the rather unstructured post that is to follow:

When I race every Sunday say, then I'd do a recovery ride on Monday, intervals on Tuesday, Wednesday depends (probably Sweet Spot), Thursday endurance, Friday recovery, Saturday taper.
Or Wednesday easy and Thursday intervals again.
Or Tuesday off, Wednesday/Thursday intervals, Friday recovery.
You'll have to experiment what works best for you.

Right know I am a fan of polarized training, that would mean about 70-80% endurance rides and the rest HIT-sessions.
A week could look like this: Sunday race, Monday recovery, Tuesday HIT, Wednesday L2, Thursday HIT, Friday off/recovery, Saturday taper
Although that might be a bit to intense and giving that Sunday is race you can do just one HIT during the week.

During season I'm not a big fan of doing L4 - I would put an L4 block in March. Sprint drills you can fit into endurance rides and the interval sessions would be L5/L6 depending on your race analysis and what your limiters are. I also use L5-blocks to introduce a peak.

Given that you do a regular 4-5h Sunday ride it doesn't sound as if you're racing though so I'd have to ask you what your goals are. Generally though I would always favour two rides totalling 4-5h hours instead of just one ride of that duration but I realise that this is a time budget question.

Thanks, the reply has helped get perspective of '10hours training'
I do the Sunday 5 hours for the social part, also because I raced on Saturday. Last week I raced Sunday and didnt do the longer ride.
Last week was a bit like this I guess

A week could look like this: Sunday race, Monday recovery, Tuesday HIT, Wednesday L2, Thursday HIT, Friday off/recovery, Saturday taper

Mon recovery ride, Tues first ever HIT, Weds was a crit, Thurs was a wasted crit as I DNF'd very early. Friday nothing, Sat race, Sun long ride.
I would prefer to do crits Tues and Thurs instead of Weds and Thurs usually. Not always possible

Setarkos

Markwb79 wrote:

Mon recovery ride, Tues first ever HIT, Weds was a crit, Thurs was a wasted crit as I DNF'd very early. Friday nothing, Sat race, Sun long ride.
I would prefer to do crits Tues and Thurs instead of Weds and Thurs usually. Not always possible

If you do that amount of racing it is indeed difficult to fit quality training into the rest of the week.
If you can I'd suggest shortening the Sunday ride a bit. I doubt that you gain anything from it but being 5h in the saddle will raise your cortisol levels. If you have 3 races in a week, I probably wouldn't do any other intervals - if you have 2 races I'd fit in one interval session aiming at whatever you think will aid you most in your races (specificity).

When I said earlier that 10h/week would be an exception among elite riders, I probably didn't think that through. During the season you'll have more riders doing that amount of training but they will most likely have done more during pre-season.

ric/rstsport

Herbsman wrote:

How exactly do you 'taper' on one day?

lol, was just going to say the same thing!

markwb79

Thanks a lot.

When I said earlier that 10h/week would be an exception among elite riders, I probably didn't think that through. During the season you'll have more riders doing that amount of training but they will most likely have done more during pre-season.

You mean 10hours training and then racing on top of that?

If you can I'd suggest shortening the Sunday ride a bit. I doubt that you gain anything from it but being 5h in the saddle will raise your cortisol levels. If you have 3 races in a week, I probably wouldn't do any other intervals - if you have 2 races I'd fit in one interval session aiming at whatever you think will aid you most in your races (specificity).

Thats why I wanted to know in those 10 hours, how much is specific training. 3 races/training is only about 4 hours for me. But then a longer Sunday ride and a couple of recovery rides is then over the 10 hours.

Setarkos

Markwb79 wrote:

You mean 10hours training and then racing on top of that?

No, in total.

Ric/RSTSport wrote:

Herbsman wrote:

How exactly do you 'taper' on one day?

lol, was just going to say the same thing!

So is "preload" the correct English term, then? Educate me

Herbsman

I normally refer to them as race preparation rides!

trickydisco

Although almost everybody I know performs better if the have ridden a bit the day before an event instead of resting.

I've heard them being called 'openers' before. lots of guys i know do these the day before: road, cyclocross and xc. Do some hard efforts to remind the legs what they need to do

displacedaussie

I always like to do a long hard ride three or four days before a race, sprints and threshold efforts 2/3 days before a race to "activate" the legs, and then an easy-ish ride but with a couple of sprints the day before a race to keep the legs "open". That usually has me feeling the best on race day. Although I think most people at our level probably overthink it all a bit much.

Ride hard. Ride more often. Rest and recover when your body needs it. Tweak. Repeat.

mentalalex

I ALWAYS have a "Prep Ride" the day before a race, i find i go very sluggish if i don't, it just helps open the legs up!

markwb79

I was more than a bit 'slugish' on Saturday. need to work on my build up and warm ups.