Ding Dong, The Witch is Dead!

magibob

Gotta say, there's a lot of nasty stuff flying about.

My thoughts on her was that she did a lot of good things early on, then became power crazed.

Best facebook comment:-

"I guess in the end, all a person can do is try to live their life in such a way that it doesn’t require 700 armed guards to protect their coffin."

Andy

seanoconn

Magibob wrote:

Gotta say, there's a lot of nasty stuff flying about.

My thoughts on her was that she did a lot of good things early on, then became power crazed.

Best facebook comment:-

"I guess in the end, all a person can do is try to live their life in such a way that it doesn’t require 700 armed guards to protect their coffin."

Andy

That's excellent.

Sewinman

Its rather telling that usually fairly stable and rational people are getting so heated about this woman. I can't think of any other British person that is so hated.

Stevo_666

BigMat wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Like I've said elsewhere, Maggie must have done a bl00dy good job because she manages to rile millions of lefties, even when she's dead

A lot of the people she has "riled" probably had no strong political persuasion until she f***ed them / their community over. You might see that as having been for some greater good but can you not see why others might have a different perspective? You people with your tribal party politics are a bit pathetic, its like you're following football or something.

You missed the ....and took the bait

bigmat

Stevo 666 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Like I've said elsewhere, Maggie must have done a bl00dy good job because she manages to rile millions of lefties, even when she's dead

A lot of the people she has "riled" probably had no strong political persuasion until she f***ed them / their community over. You might see that as having been for some greater good but can you not see why others might have a different perspective? You people with your tribal party politics are a bit pathetic, its like you're following football or something.

You missed the ....and took the bait

Maybe - wasn't aimed solely at you though. That was the edited version as well :twisted: - guess its an issue that people care about even 25 years later.

Stevo_666

BigMat wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Like I've said elsewhere, Maggie must have done a bl00dy good job because she manages to rile millions of lefties, even when she's dead

A lot of the people she has "riled" probably had no strong political persuasion until she f***ed them / their community over. You might see that as having been for some greater good but can you not see why others might have a different perspective? You people with your tribal party politics are a bit pathetic, its like you're following football or something.

You missed the ....and took the bait

Maybe - wasn't aimed solely at you though. That was the edited version as well :twisted: - guess its an issue that people care about even 25 years later.

Fair enough, tribalism is part of human nature and I enjoy a bit of jousting on certain topics, especially when other people are wrong

(Also I'd hate to get on the wrong side of another Beckenhamite just in case you are in fact big enough to beat me up if I ever meet you on the commute :P )

The Rookie

The reason the left hate her so much is that she did such a good job of making a traditional socialist government completely unellectable, Labour had to rebrand itself as New Labour and lie through it's teeth about its spending plans to get in and have someone like Bliar lead them (clearly no socialist, look at him now!).

They still screwed up the countries finances just as well as they managed in the 70's though, they couldn't change their competance.

herb71

I think the song reaching number 1 is very ironic. market forces pushing a 70 year old song to the top of the charts and making a great deal of money for Apple and Disney (or whoever the current rights holder is). Capitalism at its best.

The bbc should play it on the chart show, which after all, is only an record of the music we are buying at any given time.

bigmat

The Beginner wrote:

The reason the left hate her so much is that she did such a good job of making a traditional socialist government completely unellectable, Labour had to rebrand itself as New Labour and lie through it's teeth about its spending plans to get in and have someone like Bliar lead them (clearly no socialist, look at him now!).

They still screwed up the countries finances just as well as they managed in the 70's though, they couldn't change their competance.

but could they spell?!

The Rookie

No better than me, no.

gbsahne001

RRSODL wrote:

We live in a democracy so if it's number one then it should be played.

Relax got to No 1 but that got no air time on Radio 1

Sewinman

The Beginner wrote:

The reason the left hate her so much is that she did such a good job of making a traditional socialist government completely unellectable, Labour had to rebrand itself as New Labour and lie through it's teeth about its spending plans to get in and have someone like Bliar lead them (clearly no socialist, look at him now!).

They still screwed up the countries finances just as well as they managed in the 70's though, they couldn't change their competance.

It is not just 'the left' who hate her though is it, if you mean the left political classes. There are millions of normal people who absolutely hate her, and not because of some mildly theoretical concern for the changing nature of the Labour party, they hate her because she ruined their lives and their towns.

Is there a more hated figure ever in British history?

People also seem to forget that she wasn't very popular with the Tory party too, and was unceremoniously booted out of Downing street, never to be seen again.

rick_chasey

gbsahne wrote:

RRSODL wrote:

We live in a democracy so if it's number one then it should be played.

Relax got to No 1 but that got no air time on Radio 1

Gets lots of airplay now. Historical precedence doesn't mean legitimacy.

tailwindhome

The Beginner wrote:

The reason the left hate her so much is that she did such a good job of making a traditional socialist government completely unellectable, Labour had to rebrand itself as New Labour and lie through it's teeth about its spending plans to get in and have someone like Bliar lead them (clearly no socialist, look at him now!).

They still screwed up the countries finances just as well as they managed in the 70's though, they couldn't change their competance.

The Tories also had to undergo a major revamp - they were virtually unelectable in 1997.

Still can't win a election, even post Blair.

rick_chasey

What i find interesting is the difference in attitudes towards Thatcher and Blair. Despite a rather unedifying end to her leadership she is still revered by those on the right yet Blair, who was more centrist and probably a bit more populist is widely disparaged on both sides.

He was no more or less controversial and left on his terms.

Perhaps over time people will be kinder to Blair. Seems unlikely though.

Ben6899

Nobody likes a war criminal.

rjsterry

Ben6899 wrote:

Nobody likes a war criminal.

But being mates with a murderous Chilean dictator is just dandy.

bigmat

Ben6899 wrote:

Nobody likes a war criminal.

Yes, its all about Iraq with Blair. Seems a bit harsh, as there was very little opposition (at least from the opposite bench) and he subsequently got re-elected, but he got that call wrong and bang goes his legacy.

Ben6899

rjsterry wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Nobody likes a war criminal.

But being mates with a murderous Chilean dictator is just dandy.

If it helps my corner, I hate Thatcher just as much. And that friendship is one of the reasons.

Ben6899

BigMat wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Nobody likes a war criminal.

Yes, its all about Iraq with Blair. Seems a bit harsh, as there was very little opposition (at least from the opposite bench) and he subsequently got re-elected, but he got that call wrong and bang goes his legacy.

Life is a bitch.

Anonymous

Ben6899 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Nobody likes a war criminal.

Yes, its all about Iraq with Blair. Seems a bit harsh, as there was very little opposition (at least from the opposite bench) and he subsequently got re-elected, but he got that call wrong and bang goes his legacy.

Life is a *****.

And then you marry one.....

Ben6899

coriordan wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Ben6899 wrote:

Nobody likes a war criminal.

Yes, its all about Iraq with Blair. Seems a bit harsh, as there was very little opposition (at least from the opposite bench) and he subsequently got re-elected, but he got that call wrong and bang goes his legacy.

Life is a *****.

And then you marry one.....

Cherie?

herb71

Rick Chasey wrote:

What i find interesting is the difference in attitudes towards Thatcher and Blair. Despite a rather unedifying end to her leadership she is still revered by those on the right yet Blair, who was more centrist and probably a bit more populist is widely disparaged on both sides.

He was no more or less controversial and left on his terms.

Perhaps over time people will be kinder to Blair. Seems unlikely though.

Thatcher was a conviction politician, whether you agreed with those convictions or not is a different matter, but she will always be revered by people who shared, or profited from those convictions.

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Herb71 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What i find interesting is the difference in attitudes towards Thatcher and Blair. Despite a rather unedifying end to her leadership she is still revered by those on the right yet Blair, who was more centrist and probably a bit more populist is widely disparaged on both sides.

He was no more or less controversial and left on his terms.

Perhaps over time people will be kinder to Blair. Seems unlikely though.

Thatcher was a conviction politician, whether you agreed with those convictions or not is a different matter, but she will always be revered by people who shared, or profited from those convictions.

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

I was going to say exactly this, and cannot improve upon it.

bigmat

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Herb71 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What i find interesting is the difference in attitudes towards Thatcher and Blair. Despite a rather unedifying end to her leadership she is still revered by those on the right yet Blair, who was more centrist and probably a bit more populist is widely disparaged on both sides.

He was no more or less controversial and left on his terms.

Perhaps over time people will be kinder to Blair. Seems unlikely though.

Thatcher was a conviction politician, whether you agreed with those convictions or not is a different matter, but she will always be revered by people who shared, or profited from those convictions.

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

I was going to say exactly this, and cannot improve upon it.

I'm not sure - I think he was a pragmatist. There was / is no point being a left leaning conviction politician in this country, unless you get off on being in opposition. I think for a credible opposition New Labour was the right way to go (hence his comments this week) but his government's legacy is blighted by Iraq, failure to curb spending (a lot of which is down to the extent of the damage done by the previous regime) and failure to save for a rainy day. He probably needed to have been a bit tougher in his dealings with certain egos - Bush and Brown being the obvious ones.

jamesco

Herb71 wrote:

Thatcher was a conviction politician, whether you agreed with those convictions or not is a different matter, but she will always be revered by people who shared, or profited from those convictions.

People like Pinochet? Suharto?

Herb71 wrote:

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

I think that does a disservice to Blair (and I'm not a fan of his). He moulded the Labour party to his own convictions and led them to three election victories.

Celebrating Thatcher's death is in poor taste, IMHO, but aggrandising her is equally bad and not in the British tradition. Anyway, is there anything she did which was as beneficial, enduring and beloved as the NHS?

herb71

jamesco wrote:

Herb71 wrote:

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

I think that does a disservice to Blair (and I'm not a fan of his). He moulded the Labour party to his own convictions and led them to three election victories.

I don't think he did mould the Labour party. I think he persuaded the more left wing to pipe down for a while, and they were pragmatic enough to do so (or frightened of Campbell?). He was able to lead them to 3 victories because the Tory party was in a dire state and there was no effective opposition. He also promised to be all things to all men and people were ready for the promised change.

bigmat

Things were pretty good under Blair. If you're judging a PM by the aftermath of their premacy, I guess its a more complicated story.

rick_chasey

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Herb71 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What i find interesting is the difference in attitudes towards Thatcher and Blair. Despite a rather unedifying end to her leadership she is still revered by those on the right yet Blair, who was more centrist and probably a bit more populist is widely disparaged on both sides.

He was no more or less controversial and left on his terms.

Perhaps over time people will be kinder to Blair. Seems unlikely though.

Thatcher was a conviction politician, whether you agreed with those convictions or not is a different matter, but she will always be revered by people who shared, or profited from those convictions.

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

Really? I remember attending a talk by Hague during the Blair era and he felg Blair was a conviction politician and I do too.

Iraq is the glaring smash you in the face example. He was more centrist and took over during a period of sustained growth after a tory induced crash so he was generally less decisive. Everything I read shows him to be a conviction politician who understood that to do the things he was conviced he should, he must spin.


I was going to say exactly this, and cannot improve upon it.

rick_chasey

Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:

Herb71 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

What i find interesting is the difference in attitudes towards Thatcher and Blair. Despite a rather unedifying end to her leadership she is still revered by those on the right yet Blair, who was more centrist and probably a bit more populist is widely disparaged on both sides.

He was no more or less controversial and left on his terms.

Perhaps over time people will be kinder to Blair. Seems unlikely though.

Thatcher was a conviction politician, whether you agreed with those convictions or not is a different matter, but she will always be revered by people who shared, or profited from those convictions.

Blair on the other hand was like a blank screen, ready to take whatever image was appropriate to get elected, there was no personal conviction at all. I thinks that is why he has no respect from left or right.

Really? I remember attending a talk by Hague during the Blair era and he felg Blair was a conviction politician and I do too.

Iraq is the glaring smash you in the face example. He was more centrist and took over during a period of sustained growth after a tory induced crash so he was generally less decisive. Everything I read shows him to be a conviction politician who understood that to do the things he was conviced he should, he must spin.


I was going to say exactly this, and cannot improve upon it.