Using energy gels while training - good or bad?
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Bahzob, in regard to your last informative post. Yes I have also read numerous articles about fat burning etc. (the ones on this site are particularly good).
Personally I’ve never got used to long grinding rides and didn’t get into cycling to suffer I got into cycling because I enjoy cycling.
I have also done quite a few 100+ endurance rides (King of the Downs, Dunwich Dynamo etc.) and have done a bit of riding in France (Alp D’Huez, Croix de Fer, Col D'izoard etc.). I only started to up my mileage past say 60 -70miles when I started to use gels around a year and half ago; that was a recommendation from this site.
Before that it was always a struggle and again what’s the point of that; I go out at the weekend to have a bit of fun on my bike. If I can push myself hard and ride fast all well and good, I enjoy that kind of riding (certainly don’t enjoy the alternative!).
I don’t understand the mentality that states something can only be good if you suffer. It makes sense in the context of trying to win a race but I’m currently in training for this year’s trip to France where I’ll be tackling the Marmot route (and yes I’ll be taking a lot of gels with me!). So I’m currently trying to maximise my training sessions as much as I can as I have a busy life and limited time for riding.
It may well be the case that what’s right for me isn’t right for you or the chap who likes cake but that’s what theses forums are for. It’s all well and good reading articles on sports nutrition and fat burning capacity but do they actually work on ya average Joe.
Oh and my weights fine, I gave up worrying about that after watching an 18stone bloke ride up Alp D’Huez last year on a bike that looked like it was made of cast iron.0 -
The common problem with this forum is that you have Cat 1 + riders mixing with complete novices, and everything in between.
So good advice dished out by a Cat 1 rider may be completely inappropriate for new rider. Hence much heated discussion and difference of opinion!!
I would say Bahzob is correct in saying that if you are already a competent rider who wants to improve, then train hard, suffer some, and weight loss (within reason) is a good thing. A good rider should be capable of going 3 hours plus without fuel, but this is not to say that this is the right strategy for a race or a sportive.
BUT, if you are newer to the sport and struggling to go beyond 60 miles, then different advice applies.
Maybe each user should have a Cat level, say from 1 to 5, below their name?0 -
Categories are irrelevant in this context. Training advice is still training advice. The fact is that nobody needs to swallow 2 gels per hour on a three hour ride, regardless of standard.0
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bernithebiker may have hit the nail on the head.
Well maybe we should ask the guy who asked the question; which I think had something to do with taking gels on his turbo.
Andyeb, what are your goals exactly, are you training for a particular event, race, sportive, or just want to lose some weight?
If you’re a 43 year old bloke who likes to do endurance sportives and ride up the occasional mountain then I could possibly offer some advice as I have some experience in that department. Otherwise bernithebiker is possibly ya man..!
Funny these forums
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Just have a cup of tea with 4 sugars...
You don't cook on a portable stove at home so why would you consume portable carbohydrates...CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!0 -
Herbsman wrote:Just have a cup of tea with 4 sugars...
You don't cook on a portable stove at home so why would you consume portable carbohydrates...
Because if you're that way inclined, you 'feel more pro'?
I tasted an energy gel at the Bike Show recently just to see what it was like. I thought it was vile...Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
Herbsman wrote:Just have a cup of tea with 4 sugars...
You don't cook on a portable stove at home so why would you consume portable carbohydrates...
Errr cups of tea....? Maybe because I haven't got an extension lead that long and can't fit my teasmaid into my saddle bag.
Anyway sugar in tea is rank
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I've got loads of portable energy stored under my skin in the form of fat. Its ideal fuel for an hour or two cycling.0
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The only reason I started drinking tea was that it is such a quick way to deliver sugar - this was in my early twenties when I was working but out drinking all the time burning the candle at both ends! I hated tea and coffee but eventually got used to tea out of necessity...0
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He has some, but something mental always comes out sooner or later.ShutUpLegs wrote:0 -
Soreen malt loaf. Cheap, low fat, does the job fine.Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com0
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richymcp wrote:Bahzob, in regard to your last informative post. Yes I have also read numerous articles about fat burning etc. (the ones on this site are particularly good).
'...
Oh and my weights fine, I gave up worrying about that after watching an 18stone bloke ride up Alp D’Huez last year on a bike that looked like it was made of cast iron.
Whatever works is fine, I was just pointing out that the mistake that many people can make, thinking that calories burned in a ride must all be replaced with sugar during or just before/after it.
I've done the Marmotte and similar and actually for that event, if you can stomach them, gels are a good way to feed since they are reliable and free you from depending on feed stations.
And the guy above is correct in that any advice depends on how good you are and what you are aiming at. If the goal is just to complete and have fun then you can do this at 18 or 8 stone.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Tom Dean wrote:
He has some, but something mental always comes out sooner or later.ShutUpLegs wrote:
Lol, thanks, I think.
Yes doing a fast century on just water is a bit mental. But that's because the events I was training for were pretty mental too, massive tours, self supported 12 hour TTs and the LEL.
Going out and doing some long water only rides were great training for these because, as mentioned above, they train the body to produce steady power in the toughest circumstances, which is what these events are all about.
And, following the rule of specificity, the rides are literally "mental training" too. Part of the "fun" and challenge of long distance events is pushing yourself to the limits of your endurance and beyond. This more than any other factor is liable to be the main one in succeeding or not. But this is tricky to replicate this in training, its quite different from what you experience doing hard intervals. Doing long water only rides comes close though especially if it's pouring with rain with a headwind all the way home.
The point, in the context of this thread, is that individuals vary widely and the only way to really find out how much food you need to eat is to try to find out how far/fast you can go without any.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
If your target event requires doing 100 miles without eating, then doing so in training would be 'specific'. When would this ever be the case though?
I get the idea of training the way the body uses different fuel sources, and that is valid, but the bottom line is always power output. My feeling is that the kind of work you suggest would likely be far below optimal in power terms and this negative would outweigh any 'fat burning' benefits you might gain.
No doubt you can get a psychological edge if you can do this sort of stuff routinely!0 -
I think most of you are missing out on the question of intensity. If you do a low intensity ride (based on your perception of intensity, not anyone elses!) then you can ride for quite a while without taking on any additional food. If you do much more intense ride for sufficient time, you're going to run out of fuel as you're body can't release enough energy from fat stores to meet the demand. In summary, for an hours ride, possibly 2 at a push, you'll be all right what ever the intensity. More than that and if you're hammering it, you'll be wanting something to eat to avoid the bonk.
Bahzob's training regime sounds pretty extreme, and definitely something very specialized as well as something to work up to rather than to be doing for your average sportive.
The converse was a charity London/Brighton/London ride last year. Our group of 12 contained riders with varying levels of training and as such we ended up taking over 4 hours just to get to Brighton and we stopped in pretty much every village possible to "stock up". Complete overkill, even for the more unfit guys.FCN3: Titanium Qoroz.0 -
This is of course true, but I think people underestimate what they can do without food.Wrath Rob wrote:If you do much more intense ride for sufficient time, you're going to run out of fuel as you're body can't release enough energy from fat stores to meet the demand. In summary, for an hours ride, possibly 2 at a push, you'll be all right what ever the intensity.
I only started road riding 6 months ago, and I'm 50, not especially fit, and when I go out during the week first thing, I don't have breakfast, but I do drink half a pint of water or so before leaving.
I can easily do 30 miles (about two hours) without feeling anything different by the end, other than normally tired, which wears off quite quickly. I then have coffee, and I'm not even especially hungry till 11 or 12 o'clock.
More than 40 miles, and it's a bit different - there was a time when I started to feel decidedly light-headed, had a bite of flapjack, and then felt fine again about 15 minutes later.
I'm sure different people are different, but even so there's nothing wrong with going without food for an hour or two and at least seeing how you get on. It's got to be better than eating pure sugar all the time.Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
Its all very well going for the occasional ride of a couple of hours without eating extra, but if you're riding every day or most days and actually training (as opposed to bumbling around looking at the scenery) then you'll need to replace most of the calories at some point so you may as well take some calories on during the ride (and soon after).
Gels are a total waste of money for training though.More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:Gels are a total waste of money for training though.
Unless you are training for an event where you will be using gels, surely?0 -
apreading wrote:amaferanga wrote:Gels are a total waste of money for training though.
Unless you are training for an event where you will be using gels, surely?
I guess maybe if you have a sensitive stomach. Manufacturers obviously like band around that you must use them in training as well. I have a couple of gels in any races that are ~2 hours or more, but I've never felt the need to use them in training.More problems but still living....0 -
apreading wrote:amaferanga wrote:Gels are a total waste of money for training though.
Unless you are training for an event where you will be using gels, surely?
The ultimate in specificity.
Hi5 were the nutrition supplier for my last year and I bike trained with a gel every 45 minutes. On the day I took one every 20 minutes. You can't gamble that you'll be OK on the day for 180km ride followed by a marathon without training the body to take on nutrition in the same manner it will be delivered.0 -
Seems I've started quite a bun fight here
I once worked out that the average person holds enough calories as fat to ride 3000 miles. Now of course not all of this energy is available to you if you simply go out and ride; there comes a point where the body can not get sufficient energy from breaking down fat supplies and you start depleting your glycogen stores, especially at higher intensities.
Some people swear by fasted low-intensity workouts as a way of training the body to get more energy from fat stores. Makes logical sense to me, but my coach is sceptical it seems.
Anyway, since starting this thread, I've managed to wean myself off gels while training on the turbo - I will save them for when I'm out on the road and the convenience/portability makes up for the cost. Will probably try and keep a banana close at hand during high-intensity sessions though.0 -
Just to correct matters. I am not saying that, even for the events I was training for you would do a huge number of long fasted rides. And ofc even if you do them they are only a small portion of training, the remainder being done at higher intensity.
I simply cited them as an example of what it is possible to do at the opposite end of the spectrum to the trap many fall into including here when they think they will have a "severe calorie deficit" if they "only" eat 500cals for a 3 hour training ride. As a result they overeat both during and after the ride for "recovery" then post here asking why they are not losing weight.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
andyeb wrote:Seems I've started quite a bun fight here
I once worked out that the average person holds enough calories as fat to ride 3000 miles. Now of course not all of this energy is available to you if you simply go out and ride; there comes a point where the body can not get sufficient energy from breaking down fat supplies and you start depleting your glycogen stores, especially at higher intensities.
Sorry but this is misleading. You could go out tomorrow, start riding and carry on for 3000 miles without eating a single gel or any other carbohydrate that would be used for muscle power. So long as you kept drinking, took on the right minerals and took on just enough carbohydrate to keep your brain working OK (though ofc the fact you were doing the ride in the first place may might mean it had already stopped). The most important other thing would be protein. You won't maintain a very high average speed but you will be able to cover the distance. Ofc not many will contemplate doing a 3000 mile ride but it's remarkable how many people treat an 60 mile club run with coffee stop as if they were doing one and worry about what to eat during it.
Conversely if you try to ride up, say the Glandon in the Marmotte, at absolute maximum speed most people will not be able to hold this pace for 15 miles unless they eat some carbs. (since they would use up all their glycogen up before getting to the top). When they hit this point they would not have to stop. They would just notice a marked loss of power.
Yet that same person could do a shorter climb, say the Telegraphe at an even faster pace just on water, since it's not long enough to use up all your glycogen.
The critical thing is not how far you ride but how fast and for what duration. These factors are what determine what you should eat and when.Martin S. Newbury RC0 -
Why would anyone have a crap (60 to 80mile) ride, with low pwr o/p and poss feel terrible for the rest of the day, when for a Nutrigrain and a banana - you can have the complete opposite? and still lose weight and gain fitness.
What is the point of riding to exhaustion? thats not how anyone plans to ride on the day of their big event is it?
I do find some posts on here so confusing and full of contradictions 0 -
Gels for training? No.
Bananas, flapjacks and water my good man.
Gels are for racing. Training food should be as real as possible (and that includes avoiding those overpriced energy bars).0
