Using energy gels while training - good or bad?

andyeb

After establishing a good base of fitness, I'm now moving up the training pyramid and doing lower volumes of higher intensity work.

While my cardio fitness seems up to this, once I go above my anaerobic threshold, my energy stores seem to be severely limited, even if I've fuelled appropriately for a session. It's not lactic acid burn or any other discomfort, simply a sensation of running-on-empty.

The other day I did an hour of 5 min on/5 min off intervals on the turbo at 90% of maximum heart rate, but this time I had a high5 gel every twenty minutes. This is significantly better than I would normally manage.

Is it a bad idea to use gels during training - should they just be reserved for competitive events or as a get-you-home measure if you bonk miles from home? I'm conscious they are i) an expensive habit ii) not too good for your teeth iii) probably give you diabetes, so would prefer to manage without.

Any thoughts?

thanks,

Andrew

DHTT

How long is your session which you're using them every 20 minutes? I only tend to use them emergency only last hour or 2 of a long ride, but its important to use them in training to make sure your stomach can deal with them as you don't want them messing up your stomach on the day of your big event.

phreak

If you say you've fueled appropriately for the session you shouldn't really need to eat during it. Most turbo sessions are only 60-90 minutes, so you shouldn't need extra food for such a relatively short workout.

stueys

You should be able to run hard for about 90 minutes before running empty. Obviously it varies by individual but I always do an hour of hard intervals with nothing other than water. I try to do one session a week per-breakfast with nothing other than coffee to try to encourage my body to use fat over carbs. Anything pot 90mins is to a problem.

Suspect you've got yourself in a place where you mentally need the sugar taste. Doubt very much it's fitness related. Maybe try doing 10 minutes longer each week without the gel and push out to 90 mins?

ChrisSA

What they all said. You should be able to do an hour unfueled, even in a fasted state (i.e. first thing in the morning).

When I was training for an Ironman I'd take a gel every 45 minutes so I could get used to it and on the day was eating gels every 20 minutes.

danlikesbikes

As others have said if your fuelled properly you shouldn't need to take gels for if your session was 60mins or less. Your right they could become a very expensive habit & if your feeling under fuelled during training then maybe you could consider food that is more homemade?

simon_e

ChrisSA wrote:

You should be able to do an hour unfueled, even in a fasted state (i.e. first thing in the morning).

True, although a carb energy drink may help the participant feel better by the end of some hard intervals compared to water. I've found it has helped the few times I use maltodextrin+water instead of plain water. Unscientific, of course, but a scoop of energy powder doesn't cost much.

cyco2

I have never been able to work out my energy requirements for riding or training. As a result I have experienced the bonk even during the recovery period after a ride. So, I always take a litre of energy drink for up to 35 miles of hard riding. More for longer. I also start with half a Mars bar and the other half, half way round. Bars 260 calories each are only £1 for 4 in Tesco or Sainsburys so have a plentiful supply at hand. The one I carry for emergency use has also come in handy for the odd bonked out rider. I may try some energy bars one day but Mars bars will do for now.

danlikesbikes

cyco2 wrote:

I have never been able to work out my energy requirements for riding or training. As a result I have experienced the bonk even during the recovery period after a ride. So, I always take a litre of energy drink for up to 35 miles of hard riding. More for longer. I also start with half a Mars bar and the other half, half way round. Bars 260 calories each are only £1 for 4 in Tesco or Sainsburys so have a plentiful supply at hand. The one I carry for emergency use has also come in handy for the odd bonked out rider. I may try some energy bars one day but Mars bars will do for now.

Where do you keep your mars bar? If I had mine in my back pocket think I would have made my own mars flavoured gel after about 45 minutes of riding.

simon_e

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Where do you keep your mars bar? If I had mine in my back pocket think I would have made my own mars flavoured gel after about 45 minutes of riding.

I really enjoy a Snickers during a training ride in cooler weather. Mine sits in the seat pack (which is just as well as it would probably get eaten far sooner if it was easier to reach while riding!).

But I wouldn't want one during an interval workout.

danlikesbikes

If you do try and take it out, please can you get someone to video it please? I'm not wishing a crash on you but a funny wobble & I could be £250 better off.

Above is what my other half says about me on my rollers, just case I do come off.

bahzob

As above for advice on gels, should only really be used for long rides when training.

That said they can act help if you are actually competing. I know someone who is an elite runner and he has a routine when doing a half marathon to have a gel at exactly 43 minutes, literally setting his watch to remind him to do it. Chances are the effect is as much psychological as physiological but it works for him.

I find it segments of clementine help during hard efforts, they taste great, are easy to eat/digest and refresh the mouth. Effect is mainly psychological but they certainly help push to the end of an interval.

Regards where to store things, I would recommend anyone who rides without support to invest in 1-2 tri-bags. (see below for example, lots of others around.) These make it dead easy to store/get to food in small easy to eat nibbles (including stuff that melts like Mars bars) and a couple of them can hold enough for a 5-6 hour hard ride.

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/topeak-tri-bag-with-rain-cover/

Best place to store gels I have found is up your shorts on top of the thigh. Keeps them warm and easy to find if you need them in an emergency.

richymcp

I do my turbo sessions most evenings after work and after my nightly ride home. By that time I’m usually quite tired and my blood sugar feels low having not eaten since lunchtime so I usually have an energy gel before the session.

I only started doing this relatively recently as I felt it was pointless training when I felt totally knackered, for me a high intensity session just feels far more productive than a low intensity session. I’m not too sure what the benefit is of training when you’re not at you’re optimum, I’d be interested to hear if that’s something proper athletes do (or maybe they just never get tired..?).

One thing I have noticed is when my blood sugar is low it’s impossible to get my heart rate above say 150 but if I’m fuelled-up I can really push it close to its max (which for me is around 170).

Regarding gels generally I think they’re great; I’ve always been a bit prone to bonking on rides so they have really made a difference. Without them I’d be hard pushed to finish a 50 mile ride let alone some of the endurance rides I’ve managed to complete in the last few years.

As for being bad for you, well I’m sure they are if you’re a couch potato, but you’re taking them during presumably high intensity physical activity so I really wouldn’t worry about it.

Herbsman

Using gels at home?

Unbelievable.

ShutUpLegs

Herbsman wrote:

Using gels at home?

Unbelievable.

On the turbo?

Jesus wept

richymcp

Quite interesting looking at some of the comments above (including mine) quite a good balance I thought.

It's what I like about sites like this one; people who are genuinely enthusiastic about their sport sharing thoughts and ideas with others.

Oh and then the numpties appear, knuckles dragging on the proverbial chat room floor……?!

Ahh well was a good thread why it lasted….!

Herbsman

You do realise that a gel is effectively 4tsp of sugar mixed with water, don't you?

Now, use your head... why do you think they come in a packet? Portability, perhaps?

jgsi

richymcp wrote:

Quite interesting looking at some of the comments above (including mine) quite a good balance I thought.

It's what I like about sites like this one; people who are genuinely enthusiastic about their sport sharing thoughts and ideas with others.

Oh and then the numpties appear, knuckles dragging on the proverbial chat room floor……?!

Ahh well was a good thread why it lasted….!

Well, this being an unruly forum and all that brings to light!
Anyway, you probably have a fair point about your nutritional deficit prior to intense workouts due to work and life getting in the way and messing up a well intentioned plan.
The OP on the other hand just seems to have gotten himself into an expensive habit.
He says not fitness related... I bet it is.

By the way I am about to do Trainer Road/Local Hero (no pun intended) on 3 double espressos :twisted:

andyeb

OP back again here... Just completed a slightly harder version of the same workout (1 hour of intervals - 6 minutes at 90% MHR, 4 minutes at 65% MHR) without any gels or carb drink.

Seems its all in the mind after all!

cougie

Gels take about 20 mins to get into the bloodstream anyway - so more of a placebo effect than anything.
Gels are very expensive. On a bike you can usually take on solids - doing gel all the time is messy and expensive.
Pros can handle proper food as their main source.

I race marathons with gels for portability. When I train I use sweets. About 30ps worth gets me to 22 miles or so. Against £5 for gels.

ShutUpLegs

richymcp wrote:

Quite interesting looking at some of the comments above (including mine) quite a good balance I thought.

It's what I like about sites like this one; people who are genuinely enthusiastic about their sport sharing thoughts and ideas with others.

Oh and then the numpties appear, knuckles dragging on the proverbial chat room floor……?!

Ahh well was a good thread why it lasted….!

Come back when you've stop wetting the bed.

A few jelly babies would probably be better than gels.

bahzob

This thread does point up something interesting.

Placebo effects are very real and they can result in a real performance improvement even if they can't possibly have any direct physiological benefit.

The one here has been demonstrated http://raws.adc.rmit.edu.au/~x04692/blog2/?p=3

Even far more complex scenarios have been shown to have a good evolutionary basis: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528812.300-evolution-could-explain-the-placebo-effect.html

So during training its worth trying to find something you can take which you can trust in and believe will help you push to the limit. Doesn't need to be a gel, any of the ideas above will most likely work. If it works in training it will work in an event as well.

Just make sure its legal . Though on that score its interesting (and ironic) to speculate that at least part of the benefit scum like Armstrong et al got from cheating was placebo.

richymcp

Interesting point bahzob (what ever happened to Placebo.?).

As previously stated I personally find gels beneficial, especially as I don't really tolerate solid food very well when I’m out riding.

As for sweets, yes some are presumably cheaper but they still need a bit of digestion where the isotonic gels seem to go straight into the system (well my system anyway).

I guess the thing is to find something that works for you and stick to it. That’s one piece of advice I got from this site, don’t experiment during an event and find something you can tolerate that doesn’t make you feel sick.

Regarding expense, I buy mine from an online discount store at around 50p a pop. I do 2 gels an hour and most of my training rides are 3 hours long, so I do a maximum of 6 gels on a ride which equates to £3 a ride, I don’t think that’s horridly expensive.

(As for bed wetting, ha ha that’s really funny, I bet you’re a really funny guy! Have you ever thought about taking up stand up? How are those knuckles btw, must get soar?)

bahzob

Just ignore tossers like the guy above.

He's probably about as good at riding a bike as he is as being funny.

imposter2.0

richymcp wrote:

I do 2 gels an hour and most of my training rides are 3 hours long, so I do a maximum of 6 gels on a ride which equates to £3 a ride, I don’t think that’s horridly expensive.

Sorry, but six gels on a three hour ride is excessive. A banana at roughly half-way point usually does me for a 3hr ride. Save the gels for racing, or for emergencies. I've honestly never heard of anyone necking six gels in three hours.

cougie

I'd not bother with any gels for a 3 hour ride. Stop for cake like a proper rider.

chrisaonabike

If you fuel yourself mostly with gels during a ride presumably thats nearly all sugar - is it even good for one's metabolism to get it used to working with such large quantities of quick-release carbs?

richymcp

Cake, metabolism, not sure I’m understanding your argument….?

1 SIS isotonic energy gel contains 22g of carbohydrate which converts (according SIS) to 86kcal of energy.

A banana would be around 90kcal and your average man size carrot cake is 326kcal and contains 16.7g of fat, the gels contain no fat.

If you’re out doing a 3 hour full gas hilly ride then you’ll burn around 800kcal an hour so even if you have 6 gels (total 516kcal) you’re still in serious energy depletion (ride would burn 2400kcal).

So 6 gels isn’t excessive especially if you only carry water and don’t over-eat between your training sessions; I’ve been following this regime for a while now and I haven’t put any weight on and my training sessions have definitely improved.

Saying all that if you prefer cake or perhaps even fish n chips then who am I to say you’re wrong (although I’d recommend staying away from the beetroot juice, that little experiment didn’t end well!) , each to their own I guess.

imposter2.0

richymcp wrote:

If you’re out doing a 3 hour full gas hilly ride then you’ll burn around 800kcal an hour so even if you have 6 gels (total 516kcal) you’re still in serious energy depletion (ride would burn 2400kcal).

No idea how many 'kcals' I burn, but I can finish a 3hr ride pretty much as strongly as I start it without chugging six gels on the way. Try it yourself - and leave your calculator at home - you might be suprised.

bahzob

richymcp wrote:

If you’re out doing a 3 hour full gas hilly ride then you’ll burn around 800kcal an hour so even if you have 6 gels (total 516kcal) you’re still in serious energy depletion (ride would burn 2400kcal).

Not all the energy used in a ride will come from carbohydrates. A significant proportion will come from fat, the exact proportion will vary as a function of the ride intensity, the lower the intensity the more energy comes from fat. One aim of training for all those who ride longer road events is, in fact, to increase the intensity of fat sourced power.

Further your body has significant on board carbs stored in glycogen. The exact amount varies by individual but will usually be in the range 1000-2500cals stored in the liver and muscles. Another objective for training is to increase this amount.

So I am afraid you are wrong on several counts:
- If you burn 2400kcal in a ride you cannot assume that "only" eating 500kcal will result in an energy deficit. By definition such a ride will be done significantly under threshold pace and so a large proportion will be sourced by fat with the balance coming from on board glycogen.
- The body adapts to circumstances. If it receives a constant supply of sugar it will do less to improve its fuel efficiency. If a training goal is to increase long distance endurance this is exactly what you don't want. You want to put it under stress so it has to make more use of fat sources and increase glycogen storage.
- If your objective is to lose weight (and for 99% of cyclists who want to ride better it should be) you want to be in a large calorie deficit on rides, especially if you feel the need for "recovery" products afterwards.

To give a practical example. I do some very long distance events and when doing so part of training is to do exactly the sort of ride above or longer (including steady power fast 100 milers) just on water. I feel a bit crap towards the end but that's the point.

bernithebiker

Good advice above.

Many gels, such as High 5 say on them - take 3 per hour during activity which is ridiculous IMO.

For rides of up to 2 hours, I take nothing but water.

For longer I may pop one gel or a banana.