Criticism of the Sky train (may contain spoilers)
Comments
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I have no Interest in Sky, I have an interest in truth and fairness. Sky get neither of the two.
In another recent example, no Phinney should not be able to ride, and I strongly suspet that the twaliban would not be so much in favour of it if it was a no name domestique from Movistar.....
But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your misery eh?We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Monty Dog wrote:Most pro riders train alone or in informal groups and only ride together at races - consequently, whilst riders are given individual programmes, it's likely that they're all peaking for different objectives. Few teams train for specific events as a team simply because they can't afford it. Sky's focus appears to be getting the whole team to peak for specific events - whilst it does smack of USPS/Disco re-fuelled by Ferrari, their watt/kg figures suggest otherwise - just that they're ruthlessly efficient at applying their training methodologies.
One of the best posts I have read on this forum for a long time. Strange it passed the clique by.
Sky's training camps require all riders to attend at some point to train as a team for their specific events. The hiring of 'super domesiques' is also a big factor in their dominance.0 -
I for one am amazed that Sky can do all these training camps, ride as a team, do all their super sneaky undetectable drugs that no-one else has heard of, kick the sh!t out of the peloton and still ride up climbs slower than Armstrong et al.0
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smithy21 wrote:I for one am amazed that Sky can do all these training camps, ride as a team, do all their super sneaky undetectable drugs that no-one else has heard of, kick the sh!t out of the peloton and still ride up climbs slower than Armstrong et al.
That's what the power meters are for! So they know they're not riding too quick
Froome must have got destroyed yesterday because he forgot to take his super-secret-marginal-gains-amphetamines :roll:Rundfahrt wrote:ALIHISGREAT wrote:Rundfahrt wrote:ddraver wrote:Rundfahrt wrote:You'd better watch out jerry3571, I made many of the same points and comparisons during the Tour last year and got banned, conveniently, for the exact number of days remaining in the Tour...while those attacking and insulting me received nothing. This is a Sky slobbering forum.
No, you got banned for being a d1ckhead...
Rich's list of riders, results and their teams is your answer Phreak...Remember in 10 years time there will be a new team doing the exact same thing and we ll all be saying they re boring and 10 years ago everything was panache filled and amazing.
Nice response, exactly the same thing you (and the other Sky slobbers) did on here during the Tour...but escaped a ban. I have to give you props for doing an excellent job of giving a perfect example of what I am talking about.
and you continue.. what does 'slobbers' even mean?
The question you should be asking is why it is ok for a member to call someone else a name like that for pointing out a fact that they do not like without any sort of punishment.
I'm betting you guys would be howling with anger if I was the one posting things like that towards the posters that slobber over Sky...especially if I did it over and over like ddraver.
you've been calling members of this forum 'slobbers'... hence why I asked what it meant. and D1ckhead isn't exactly the most extreme insult is it?
You need to get over the fact you got banned.. because the mods obviously had their reasons and perhaps start contributing constructively to the forum?0 -
They lose on purpose, remember? SirDB told Froome to lose so as not to arouse suspicion,0
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Is part of their well drilled approach not brought on by being one of the few teams able to send their GT squad away to train en masse in the middle of the season?
I've always thought that having a sponsor that doesn't really care about the TV exposure from the 4 Days of Dunkirk is a luxury that allows them to better prepare for races they target."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
smithy21 wrote:I for one am amazed that Sky can do all these training camps, ride as a team, do all their super sneaky undetectable drugs that no-one else has heard of, kick the sh!t out of the peloton and still ride up climbs slower than Armstrong et al.
... and never get beaten.
Oh wait...
It's great for racing that Nibali was able to sneak a crow-bar into the Sky formation and lever it open on that brutal T-A stage. It'll be great feedback for him and others in the up-coming races. Unfortunately, for them, it'll also provide Sky with some feedback, too; and they seem to be quite good at processing that into even more formidable performance.
Psychologically, if all the other teams are thinking "how do we beat Sky?", then that in itself will give Sky an Edge in some respects (and also a Problem to contend with in others). The Edge will come from knowing that all the other teams fear you. Imagine what that does for your confidence as a pro when you rock up to race as the number 1 unit and you know - as does everyone else - that you're there to win. If your mindset is negative, you'll probably feel an overwhelming burden of pressure - and then crumple: if it's positive, you'll be excited and fired up. Individually, it's what Contador (and to some extent Cancellara and Gilbert - although they don't state that they start every race to win) got used to experiencing. Now, it seems, it's what Sagan is encountering in virtually any one day race he starts.
The Problem is that, when things get grippy, all eyes are on you, which could be restrictive (or in Sky's case, have them ride in formation).0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:smithy21 wrote:I for one am amazed that Sky can do all these training camps, ride as a team, do all their super sneaky undetectable drugs that no-one else has heard of, kick the sh!t out of the peloton and still ride up climbs slower than Armstrong et al.
... and never get beaten.
Oh wait...
It's great for racing that Nibali was able to sneak a crow-bar into the Sky formation and lever it open on that brutal T-A stage. It'll be great feedback for him and others in the up-coming races. Unfortunately, for them, it'll also provide Sky with some feedback, too; and they seem to be quite good at processing that into even more formidable performance.
Psychologically, if all the other teams are thinking "how do we beat Sky?", then that in itself will give Sky an Edge in some respects (and also a Problem to contend with in others). The Edge will come from knowing that all the other teams fear you. Imagine what that does for your confidence as a pro when you rock up to race as the number 1 unit and you know - as does everyone else - that you're there to win. If your mindset is negative, you'll probably feel an overwhelming burden of pressure - and then crumple: if it's positive, you'll be excited and fired up. Individually, it's what Contador (and to some extent Cancellara and Gilbert - although they don't state that they start every race to win) got used to experiencing. Now, it seems, it's what Sagan is encountering in virtually any one day race he starts.
The Problem is that, when things get grippy, all eyes are on you, which could be restrictive (or in Sky's case, have them ride in formation).
That stage was so brutal it had nothing to do with sky tactics or sky's failure.. when 50 riders give up you know its tough.
You can't expect anyone to perform consistently well on a stage like that (ok maybe Nibali had an advantage because of the wet technical descents)... it was more like a classics stage in that you have to be very lucky to get into the move -> especially since wheels were slipping when they were climbing so its harder to follow a move.0 -
interesting comments from Luca Guercilena over at the Shack
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... -note.html0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:interesting comments from Luca Guercilena over at the Shack
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... -note.html
Some good points made.Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Why is supporting a UK based team always considered as slobbering? If that is the case I may have been slobering at the last Rugby and Football world cup without even knowing it. Oh the embarasment :oops:
As for the inevitable comparisons by the inevitable posters regarding Sky and Discovery etc I would suggest a read of the excellent Sky and David Walsh post. That thread had a healthy debate and in over 40 pages failed to provide a shed of evidence. Instead it resorted to a prove they aren't doping chant by those accusing Sky supporters of being Fanbois or Slobbering :roll:
But of course people will continue to muck spread without any shed of evidence other than a teams sucess (Sky or any other team). Sad but that is what the UCI have done to cycling by not adressing this issue all these years
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Talking of Walsh, he's in Tenerife with Sky's Classics squad plus Wiggins right now...be interesting to read his next article on the team0
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Richmond Racer wrote:Talking of Walsh, he's in Tenerife with Sky's Classics squad plus Wiggins right now...be interesting to read his next article on the team
Sadly, it won't matter."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
ALIHISGREAT wrote:That stage was so brutal it had nothing to do with sky tactics or sky's failure.. when 50 riders give up you know its tough.
You can't expect anyone to perform consistently well on a stage like that (ok maybe Nibali had an advantage because of the wet technical descents)... it was more like a classics stage in that you have to be very lucky to get into the move -> especially since wheels were slipping when they were climbing so its harder to follow a move.
The reason why so many gave up was that there was no reason to carry on as much as the difficulty of the course. As Phinney said, if there was a sprint stage the next day, the grupetto would have carried on.
In virtually any other race/stage the adage is that the riders make the race hard - not the parcours.
Sky were seemingly coping well with protecting Froome up until the last 30Km.
What you say about Sky doesn't add up: of course Sky not managing to protect Froome's GC has got something to do with Sky's tactics or failures. Are you saying that the only reason that only one of their rider's managed to finish in the top 20 was due to bad luck - and that was their GC rider who managed to haul himself onto the tail end of a chasing group?0 -
bockers - please keep us informed if anyone does find this "shed of evidence". No doubt it'll be where Sky keep their Wizard.0
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inkyfingers wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Talking of Walsh, he's in Tenerife with Sky's Classics squad plus Wiggins right now...be interesting to read his next article on the team
Sadly, it won't matter.
Not to the Twaliban, I guess, but there are a hell of a lot more people following cycling than them or their followers.
Eg the number of people who've signed the e-petition re more NEG powers, is considerably higher than the number globally who contributed to the Kimmage fund or signed the Change Cycling petition. And there are huge numbers of people who dont following cycling but know of Walsh and would be inclined to take notice.0 -
Agree with this, they'll take two minutes to say David Walsh is a News Corp employee or been bought out or some sort...inkyfingers wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Talking of Walsh, he's in Tenerife with Sky's Classics squad plus Wiggins right now...be interesting to read his next article on the team
Sadly, it won't matter.
And to add to something that'd have been repeated ad nauseum and my 2 pence
My issue with the Sky train is their depth really. You know it's a strong team when Porte's number 3/4/5 depending on where Uran and Henao are rated. They ride as they have to to win, and is it any more boring or predictable than the 2009 TdF? Despite the attacks, that was far too predictable.0 -
wombly knees wrote:
Agree with this, they'll take two minutes to say David Walsh is a News Corp employee or been bought out or some sort...inkyfingers wrote:Richmond Racer wrote:Talking of Walsh, he's in Tenerife with Sky's Classics squad plus Wiggins right now...be interesting to read his next article on the team
Sadly, it won't matter.
And to add to something that'd have been repeated ad nauseum and my 2 pence
My issue with the Sky train is their depth really. You know it's a strong team when Porte's number 3/4/5 depending on where Uran and Henao are rated. They ride as they have to to win, and is it any more boring or predictable than the 2009 TdF? Despite the attacks, that was far too predictable.
Nice first post.
Yes they ride as they have to win, its their job. Its not often you can say that someone didn't ride hard to win a tour and just happened to fall into the yellow jumperPain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.0 -
Richmond Racer wrote:Talking of Walsh, he's in Tenerife with Sky's Classics squad plus Wiggins right now...be interesting to read his next article on the team
That's right Sky.
Keep him away from the GC squad.
or is it?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Ah, well, the deal (according to Walsh) is that its Walsh who picks when and where he goes a-visiting, not DaveB0
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Well Mr Walsh will be better placed, but I will continue to keep my ears and eyes open.OCDuPalais wrote:bockers - please keep us informed if anyone does find this "shed of evidence". No doubt it'll be where Sky keep their Wizard.
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That's what they want Walsh to think...Richmond Racer wrote:Ah, well, the deal (according to Walsh) is that its Walsh who picks when and where he goes a-visiting, not DaveB 0 -
Cunning, very cunning....cads!0
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I wonder when he'll take a peek in the fridge-freezer hehehe 8)
I felt a bit bad about posting the Tyler observation as i, like many people, have no idea of all the factors that go into a succesful pro team, or any team. It is easy to get carried away with the cloak & dagger shenanigins that go on and presume everyone's at it. What i don't really like is the polarisation that goes on - Fanbois, Skybots, Haters etc. I'm learning to just enjoy the racing, no favourites just enjoy what's being done on the day by whoever.0 -
In logic, this is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle. To put the argument as a syllogism:Above The Cows wrote:Just because you choose to use a train it does not mean you are doping. The two things are not necessarily connected.
Moreover, the way you deny something proves nothing. There are only so many ways you can say no. The denial does not have to bare any relation to the thing that is actually being denied. Just because Sky deny doping it does not mean that they are doping, that is the most illogical argument I think I've ever heard.
All highly paid superstars who use an effective mountain-train tactic win races.
All dopers win races
Therefore all highly paid superstars who use an effective mountain-train tactics are dopers
or, if we put it another way,
All cats have four legs
All dogs have four legs.
Therefore all cats are dogs.0 -
No, dogs iz cats! ( couldn't resist )0
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jane90 wrote:
In logic, this is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle. To put the argument as a syllogism:Above The Cows wrote:Just because you choose to use a train it does not mean you are doping. The two things are not necessarily connected.
Moreover, the way you deny something proves nothing. There are only so many ways you can say no. The denial does not have to bare any relation to the thing that is actually being denied. Just because Sky deny doping it does not mean that they are doping, that is the most illogical argument I think I've ever heard.
All highly paid superstars who use an effective mountain-train tactic win races.
All dopers win races
Therefore all highly paid superstars who use an effective mountain-train tactics are dopers
or, if we put it another way,
All cats have four legs
All dogs have four legs.
Therefore all cats are dogs.
Where the flip are all you intelligent people coming from?!?!?! We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
ddraver wrote:jane90 wrote:
In logic, this is known as the fallacy of the excluded middle. To put the argument as a syllogism:Above The Cows wrote:Just because you choose to use a train it does not mean you are doping. The two things are not necessarily connected.
Moreover, the way you deny something proves nothing. There are only so many ways you can say no. The denial does not have to bare any relation to the thing that is actually being denied. Just because Sky deny doping it does not mean that they are doping, that is the most illogical argument I think I've ever heard.
All highly paid superstars who use an effective mountain-train tactic win races.
All dopers win races
Therefore all highly paid superstars who use an effective mountain-train tactics are dopers
or, if we put it another way,
All cats have four legs
All dogs have four legs.
Therefore all cats are dogs.
Where the flip are all you intelligent people coming from?!?!?!
I'm spending a lot of time looking up words and terminology...the intelligent stuff certainly aint coming from me!0
