Carbon 29er hardtail advice - Canyon or Radon?

jimmm

So 6 months on from this thread, and I'm in the hunt for a 29er hardtail again. Sub 22lbs was probably a bit of an ask - so I've decided that sub 25lb is a lot more of a realistic target. I'm selling my cyclocross bike, which although is great, it doesn't feed my off-road cravings. This will hopefully fund a big chunk of my hardtail purchase. I have a budget of £2,500-£3,000, but of course it would be nice to come in below that!

With the 2014 ranges coming out soon/now, is there anything that I should be keeping an eye out for? I haven't decided whether to build from scratch, or get more for my money by buying a complete bike. All and any advice is welcome

cooldad

So it's taken 6 months to not buy a bike?
Stop thinking so hard. You've already missed an excellent summer's riding.

jimmm

I bought a cyclocross bike (Cannondale SuperX). It's a great bike, but I want to be able to go more off road. I've found myself not enjoying the road side of riding as much as I thought I would. Therefore I've decided to sell up now (whilst it is basically brand new), and get a 29er hardtail. Hopefully I'll still be able to enjoy some of the good weather left too!

njee20

My original post still stands!

jimmm

Thanks ^

Are there any reviews or long term tests on the Radon Black Sin? The spec looks absolutely great, but can't find much online in terms of feedback. Nothing on this forum either it appears from a quick search.

jimmm

Looking at the new Canyon bikes for 2014 - I'm presuming something such as the Grand Canyon CF SLX range (slightly over budget) is better specced than anything else I will get in the UK? Also under the 10kg weight as well.

Quite a lot of excellent feedback for Canyon and their bikes too.

supersonic

It's not a 29er but... it is 8.8 kg!!

http://www.paulscycles.co.uk/m1b8s2p402 ... %282012%29

bernie1973

Not sure where you're at with your purchase but I've got a Kinesis FF29, to which I see you have referred, and absolutely love it. Expensive perhaps relative to OnOne but absolutely fantastic ride. I built mine with XT drive train, SLX brakes, Crossmax SLR, X-Fusion Trace forks and Easton Carbon finishing kit and it came in at 10.1kg with tubeless Rock Ron back, Nob Nic front without pedals. Its waistline has expanded a little since then as it currently has a dropper post and Nob Nic at back as well but still an awesome bike to ride. Thoroughly recommended.

jimmm

Thanks for the feedback on the FF29. Sounds like a great (and light) bike!

Looking at hardtails - would it be stupid for me to go carbon or even aluminium to a point, over steel, especially as I am likely to fall off/crash a fair few times as a beginner?

I know carbon is extremely strong, as shown in the Santa Cruz video, but I am still slightly wary being a beginner.

cooldad

Experienced riders crash as well, and often in a much bigger way as they are going faster and higher.

jimmm

That is very true.

Coming from a road background I know that there are quite a few cases of carbon cracking and/or failing after crashes. So I guess I'm a bit paranoid about crashing an expensive frame while I learn the ropes!

njee20

So don't buy an expensive frame. Buy an On One, or a carbon frame direct from the sellers in Asia, like this one.

Carbon can generally be repaired anyway, alu is just as susceptible to crash damage, and harder to repair.

The Rookie

Carbon is probably the hardest to cause a failure of, aluminium the easiest, steel in between.

So before you damage the carbon the steel or ally would be scrapped, no point having steel for a lightweight bike, you'r adding nearly a kilo (frame weight circa 2100g+) before you start to a reasonable ally (1400g+) or carbon (850g can be found but sensibly 1200g+).

pilch

njee20 wrote:

So don't buy an expensive frame. Buy an On One, or a carbon frame direct from the sellers in Asia, like this one.

Carbon can generally be repaired anyway, alu is just as susceptible to crash damage, and harder to repair.

This, my on one 29er race comes in at 9.3ish kg, raced it for 2 seasons and not had the slightest problem, however mine is a good fit, (i'm 5' 7 and a bit) i'm not sure that they make them in larger sizes, only med... so you may need to go for an Asian version, plenty of people I know ride them with no issues though.

jimmm

Apologies to everyone who has given me advice and recommended so far...but I'm going to change my criteria :oops:

I am still looking to build or buy a 29er XC bike, but I am now looking for either a steel or aluminium frame. This is mainly down to cost of the brands that I am looking at, with carbon and titanium offerings being too expensive. I've noticed that I am a bit of a tart when it comes to how my bike looks, so again this kind of rules out some offerings! Really like the retro(ish) look of steel frames - so I'm leaning towards steel. Would also like to buy British if possible (help the industry and all that!). If I can get my build 25lbs or below then it would be perfect - but it's not a deal clincher now.

This is what I have on my shortlist of frames currently:
- Cotic Solaris (£499)
- Genesis High Latitude (£299.99)
- Kinesis FF29 (£499.99)
- Stanton Sherpa 853 (not yet out)
- Yeti Big Top 29'r (£999.99)

Obviously quite a lot of difference in price - ranging from £299.99 to £999.99! The Yeti Big Top is most likely out of my price range, especially when I take into account the price of components.

Can anyone recommend any other brands that I should take into consideration? Anyone got experience with the above? I know the FF29 has a glowing review from a user here (thanks bernie1973!)

supersonic

Why not a carbon on one? Light, cheap, British.

thelonegroover

jimmm wrote:

Apologies to everyone who has given me advice and recommended so far...but I'm going to change my criteria :oops:

I am still looking to build or buy a 29er XC bike, but I am now looking for either a steel or aluminium frame. This is mainly down to cost of the brands that I am looking at, with carbon and titanium offerings being too expensive. I've noticed that I am a bit of a tart when it comes to how my bike looks, so again this kind of rules out some offerings! Really like the retro(ish) look of steel frames - so I'm leaning towards steel. Would also like to buy British if possible (help the industry and all that!). If I can get my build 25lbs or below then it would be perfect - but it's not a deal clincher now.

This is what I have on my shortlist of frames currently:
- Cotic Solaris (£499)
- Genesis High Latitude (£299.99)
- Kinesis FF29 (£499.99)
- Stanton Sherpa 853 (not yet out)
- Yeti Big Top 29'r (£999.99)

Obviously quite a lot of difference in price - ranging from £299.99 to £999.99! The Yeti Big Top is most likely out of my price range, especially when I take into account the price of components.

Can anyone recommend any other brands that I should take into consideration? Anyone got experience with the above? I know the FF29 has a glowing review from a user here (thanks bernie1973!)

If you're considering a Cotic Solaris at 499, which is no boubt a great frame but have you looked at the Titus Ti Fireline at 699? from On-One, it's only 200 more for Ti!

njee20

So you're more interested in what it says on the down tube than how good it is?

I'm out.

The Rookie

jimmm wrote:

Apologies to everyone who has given me advice and recommended so far...but I'm going to change my criteria :oops:

Yup, you've decided you are a badge tart.....the bike doesn't matter.

junglist_matty

The Rookie wrote:

Yup, you've decided you are a badge tart.....the bike doesn't matter.

Not necessarily, I didn't feel at home on either On-One I had, and after a good while riding them, decided something had to be changed as I ended up not riding them.

I decided to get an FF29 in March and felt at home on the bike from the off, it's fast, it handles well, it's solid and it just works, for me, there's something about it that I love.... It's not going to be for everyone, it can be a bit sluggish on tight twisty's but overall for the XC riding I do these days, it fits the bill perfectly and I also took it on a couple of trips in Wales and it was great fun to ride.

On my MTB I don't really care so much about going as fast as possible when on the trails, I much prefer to have fun and enjoy riding it. But at the same time, when I ride it on the road I want it to be fast and not to feel really sluggish.... My On-One's both (had an inbred and a Carbon 456) felt really sluggish on the roads and were quite a struggle to ride. The FF29 is a different kettle of fish, yesterday I rode a 20mile commute on the road and averaged a touch under 20mph.

But that's just my opinion, you may disagree or agree, whatever you think is going to be different to what I think..... The downside? That you can't test ride either the FF29 or the On-One, so it's a gamble, and you'll never know what the other is like if you haven't ridden it, so you don't know which is actually best for you, whereas I've ridden both and I prefer the FF29, but it's a lot more expensive (like £300ish).

njee20

You prefer your 29er Kinesis to your 26" On Ones, so write off On One altogether?

jimmm

supersonic wrote:

Why not a carbon on one? Light, cheap, British.

I came to the realisation that I prefer the look of the more retro-ish style metal frames, and therefore it rules out (most) carbon frames from everyone due to the shape and in some cases garish colours! Nothing against carbon, or On One. The main factor against carbon in the long run is the cost though, which I know On One overcome

Thelonegroover wrote:

If you're considering a Cotic Solaris at 499, which is no boubt a great frame but have you looked at the Titus Ti Fireline at 699? from On-One, it's only 200 more for Ti!

Thanks for the pointer - I hadn't looked at this frame. Really like the look of it actually. Great price too, especially for Ti! Do you know if it is a brand new frame model? It states it is available on 15th September, and is pre-order at the moment.

njee20 wrote:

So you're more interested in what it says on the down tube than how good it is?

I'm out.

The Rookie wrote:

Yup, you've decided you are a badge tart.....the bike doesn't matter.

No not at all - I'm more interested in how the bike rides and how it looks, rather than who it is made by! The bikes that I have in my shortlist have all receive glowing reviews online - and I was looking for feedback from owners here. I don't see what is wrong about having a particular taste in brands or how a bike looks? Everyone does.

For example I really like the look of the Titus Ti Fireline, and that is not something that I had looked at. I'm just looking for some recommendations, so that I make the right choice in the long run - especially as I made the wrong choice going with a CX bike last time!

I know what I am looking for in a bike has changed over the last six months, but that's expected when you receive feedback, gather information, and trial yourself.

supersonic

I don't understand why carbon should have costs in the long run. Anyway your choice! I know I'd never choose steel, big weight penalty.

njee20

For example I really like the look of the Titus Ti Fireline, and that is not something that I had looked at. I'm just looking for some recommendations, so that I make the right choice in the long run - especially as I made the wrong choice going with a CX bike last time!

And you've had loads of recommendations for a bike that fits your spec better than any other, and are discounting it. You want light weight, and yet you're considering steel, going on reviews by people who are looking for something else in a bike. The V10c gets great reviews, but if I wanted an XC race bike I'd be looking elsewhere!

jimmm

njee20 wrote:

For example I really like the look of the Titus Ti Fireline, and that is not something that I had looked at. I'm just looking for some recommendations, so that I make the right choice in the long run - especially as I made the wrong choice going with a CX bike last time!

And you've had loads of recommendations for a bike that fits your spec better than any other, and are discounting it. You want light weight, and yet you're considering steel, going on reviews by people who are looking for something else in a bike. The V10c gets great reviews, but if I wanted an XC race bike I'd be looking elsewhere!

I totally understand that I've had a lot of recommendations for bikes so far - and the bikes recommended met my previous criteria pretty much perfectly. The recommendations and information provided will certainly be useful to someone, so won't go to waste. It hasn't been wasted on me either, as it has led me to where I am now.

I've explained that lightweight isn't something that is vital for me now, and 25lbs is a realistic target for a steel frame I believe. If it is over that, then I am not too worried anymore - I was being too much of a weight weenie!

I don't want to annoy anyone on here, so I'm sorry if I have. I do really appreciate the advice that has been given, and it has honestly helped.

jimmm

supersonic wrote:

I don't understand why carbon should have costs in the long run. Anyway your choice! I know I'd never choose steel, big weight penalty.

I meant in the long run of my decision, rather than the long run of the bike's life

The Rookie

But it won't cost more in either run (a decision is an instant in time anyway, so that's meaningless!)

jimmm

Ha wish I hadn't put the phrase 'long run' in that post. I just meant that carbon frames cost (in general - except for the On One offering which I have ruled out) more than steel and aluminium frames.

The Rookie

So ignore the others and get either an on- one or a direct (from the far east) sale, if you want the best get it, if you want something to look pretty go and get an apollo Phase and respray it in whatever color scheme you like, or I could do a 1980's Scott frame!

junglist_matty

njee20 wrote:

You prefer your 29er Kinesis to your 26" On Ones, so write off On One altogether?

Uh yeah....

Everyone raved about the inbred, so I bought one (a good number of years back) as a cheap budget bike when I was a student. I rode it, I didn't like it, I rode it some more, I didn't like it. I sold it.

A couple of years back I wanted to get something more trail based, so I got a Carbon 456 after raving reviews and it was a brand new frame design from On-One..... It was ok, I preferred it to the inbred, but it was nowhere near as good as what everyone claimed it to be, it didn't feel well planted, it was the harshest bike I've ever ridden and it wasn't exactly light either.... In other words, it was a total complete let down, and after being let down twice from listening to people raving about a certain brand I thought never again....

I wanted to stay with a British designed bike and the FF29 had just got glowing reviews so for me it was a no brainer, I bought the frame built it up and love it.... If it wasn't right, I'd say it wasn't right and try to look for something different. I'm not the type of person to sit on the fence and say this is amazing when it's not, I like to think I've got plenty of MTB experience in most disciplines from dirt jumping and downhilling as a teenager, to trail riding for 4 years whilst living in Bristol to 6 years of XC riding whilst living in Cambridgeshire. I've had DJ bikes, DH bikes, Trail bikes and XC bikes over the years.

Do you have some kind of relationship with On-One for you to be so defensive of them? ....I'm offering my experience of On-One for the OP to make a decision, I also have an FF29, one of the bikes he has on his shortlist.... And the downside to the FF29, its not as good in the twisty's as some of the on-line reviews make it out to be.... But then I'd like to find a 29er that is..... And strictly speaking, the OP wants a racer, well the FF29 isn't a racer, yes it's fast, but it's not an XC racing bike.