Elite Qubo - Power 50% out - HELP

ck99
ck99 Posts: 44
Got my Elite Qubo Wireless and set it up in 20 mins as very easy to do (attach resistance unit of 30mm to Front Bolts), set the Cycle Computer of Weight (80Kg) and Age (50) and synced up my HRM. I stablised using a CycleOps front block. and off I set, trying the various settings of Level (1-16), Power and Pre Built Programmes. The Speed & HRM both seemed fine but the Power seemed MASSIVELY out ie 50%+ of what I was expecting based upon power levels at the gym, STRAVA and a data obcessive cycling mate. I cycle a lot, so when I am doing 30kph at 75% of Max HR, sweating buckets and creating power of 105 then something is wrong. I checked the bike setup, re-input all my settings; swapped to Pounds not Kgs; swapped the computer battery, tried a different rear wheel and even used my iPAD and the ANT+ device with Elite' iQubo App but still no change. I spoke to Elite and they told me to send it back and get a new one (which I did). I have set it up again and it is still the same?!! It means that all the Programmes are out of reach unless I quickly slide the adjustment scale to 50% as they start at 120 and are mostly 200+.

The good news is that it is very quiet, easy to setup and I like the iPAD connectivity. I did achieve some improvement by telling the unit that I had lost 40Kgs and I now weigh 40KGs (its lowest weight allowed)! I have noticed lots of black tyre flecks around the roller. It looks like it thinks I wear 180KGs. Has anybody else had a similar problem ? Or have I missed something obvious ? HELP???
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Comments

  • I have the same trainer and same problem, although it doesn't really bother me as like you i adjust the slider down 50% and I don't understand how to train by power anyway. I'm very happy with the rest of the stuff like the app ect so not bothered about sending it back as it's a huge leap from the trainer I was using.
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    It doesn't sound like a faulty trainer, more like an inherent design flaw.

    At the end of the day the absolute numbers don't really matter, it's the relative numbers that count. On the other hand, that turbo sounds like a bag of w@nk designed by a bunch of incompetent idiots.
  • karldh
    karldh Posts: 34
    I have the same trainer, can't say I have noticed power being out but it is all relative like has been mentioned and mainly because i wouldnt know what power i can put out anyway. I do find it difficult to do three minutes at over 220w on the programs I have done various of the program's at 80% and even one at 100% , nearly killed me, now I know why!i just thought my legs were not up to it
    I too have input my weight at 80 kg. I have virtually cycled using the app various routes, Pickering to Whitby had my wife worried about the state I was in.this is a great feature(not my wife worrying)
    The cadence and heart rate behave themselves, it is very quiet and has not even taken off the centre mould strip on my cheap Vittoria road tyre yet despite good use
    At the end of the day it is a turbo that keeps me wanting to get back on it which probably cannot be said for the majority of turbos
    Sorry I can't help but from what you have said I think that it would appear that all the qubos are the same
    kdh
  • ck99
    ck99 Posts: 44
    Thanks Birel101 and KarlDH for the Good News / Bad News. Good News is that I was not making a stupid mistake. Bad news - is that there seems to be something wrong with some of the units. Much as I like being 40KGs, the issue unless fixed means that most of the programmes, levels and power settings are out of my range. Swiping to 50% with a sweaty finger is not what I want. However, I do really like how easy it is to add my bike or swap it out with my wife's bike and that by using ANT+, she can her her own settings and stats on her iPhone that are different to mine on an iPAD or its own computer.

    I did contact Elite and Marco, from their R&D Department has been genuinely very helpful. He has asked me to try a few more things over the week-end. I was impressed by how quickly he responded and how he has contacted me daily with questions and suggestions. It could just be that I have been unlucky with a couple of units, but lets see...
  • birel101
    birel101 Posts: 32
    Keep us updated. My BIL has a power meter and we were going to see if 50% was a truer reading as he thought it was, just haven't got round to doing that yet and if it is then it's no real problem, start the app, adjust the slider to 50% and off you go, all the power numbers are still the same. I'm sure it has to be a problem with the app though and not the trainer....
  • karldh
    karldh Posts: 34
    Not sure if this is relevant or of any use but I cycled my commute virtually on the trainer to see how much it differed from real life, the route is identical and is harder on the trainer , it takes me about a third longer in time to do it on the trainer and it is harder for definite. The route has hills that the trainer can replicate in terms of gradient.
    suppose this tends to point to the turbo being at least 40 % harder than road.i do find myself or my compact inner ring a lot!
    when I use the display unit or my iPhone with wahoo dongle there is no difference between the two for the program's so this would suggest it is not the app that is " incorrectly calibrated"
    Keep us updated with your progress with Elite
    kdh
  • ck99
    ck99 Posts: 44
    Hi KarlDH, Marco from Elite asked me to run a number of tests, which I have just done. I did them off the Turbo's own cycle computer rather than off an iPAD connected up via ANT+. He also asked me to turn off any other devices nearby which could be interfering, which I did. Luckily, my turbo is in a shed at the bottom of the garden and the Wi-Fi does not get that far. So, no iPAD or phone or TV or router or PC within 10 metres. I did the tests using a weight of 80KGs and an age of 50. Previously, I tried swapping to Pounds (176) but it made no difference.

    Sadly, these tests created the same results as I got a few days ago on the 2nd unit, which replaced the 1st unit. I tried the Level setting, the Power setting and a Pre Built Programme. In all cases, once the Power Level gets above 150, then I find it almost impossible to turn the pedals over. Changing gears helps but at 150, I cannot use the Big Front Ring and the small rings on the rear cassette as the resistance is too high. I did a 2h+ ride yesterday and STRAVA ( http://app.strava.com/activities/42784735 ) thinks I did 149 of average power and 28% of the ride was over 200, which sounds about right and proves that the bike is OK and I can generate more than 150 watts!

    Marco has sent me some pictures of his computer unit doing tests using the same Elite Qubo wireless trainer. Clearly, there is nothing wrong with his unit and he is also using a Power Tap, which is showing results very close to Elite's computer. My suspicion, which I have asked him to advise on is that there is a bad batch of units that has ended up in the UK. Marco from Elite has been really helpful and seems genuinely surprised at what I have found. Lets see what he says when he gets back to work on Monday.
  • birel101
    birel101 Posts: 32
    Great, I really can't be arsed to send the thing back, the review from here said the power is close to power meters ect, my bro in law uses power meter and said it was way out thats why I was just sliding the slider down to 50%. Thanks for the info tho ck99 and let us no what else you hear..
  • karldh
    karldh Posts: 34
    Noted that. Is it likely from what I have said that my turbo is also like yours and too difficult. I am suspecting this is pribably the case. I think mine will be one if the first ones to be sold in the uk, got it in November. Out of interest I wonder if our machine serial numbers are similar for the machines.
    kdh
  • Hi, I'm another Qubo wireless owner who doubts the accuraccy of the power readings. I got mine for Xmas from Wiggle so it is likely to be from the same batch. Anything above 150W on the Qubo and I'm blowing after 10-15 mins, yet at the gym yesterday I was cruising on a rowing machine @ 250W. Something is definitely amiss in my mind so it would be interesting to see if Marco comes up with anything.
    @ck99, is Marco aware that this does appear to be a batch problem rather than an isolated case, or should we all get in contact with him so that he is aware of the extent of the problem?
  • birel101
    birel101 Posts: 32
    BTW my trainer came from germany and not here in the UK
  • ck99
    ck99 Posts: 44
    If anybody else has an issue with their Elite Qubo, then I would recommend them contacting Elite and copy/pasting the link to this thread. It does sound like a Batch issue. Marco has checked this thread, so he does know that I am not alone and he seems genuinely interested in fixing it. Lets see.
  • karldh
    karldh Posts: 34
    What does everybody think about this, as a test went on trainer today
    Program 7 sfr2(what's that mean?)
    89 kg including bike total weight
    Mid forties ahem!
    Set program at 80% so 176 watts resistance in hard bits. Stats produced were Cadence about 80 rpm throughout
    Av speed 18.3 mph
    Av watt 147
    Distance 15.37 miles
    Av HR 152 max HR 165
    Kept above 20 mph in hard bits
    Pushing 50: 14. Lasted I think 50 minutes
    Not easy but managed it and was wet through
    Anybody any thoughts about accuracy of power readings, I tend to think it is under reading power output from these stats. Strava which is by no means accurate I know and an estimation gave me an average of 235 watts last week for a 11.4 mile commute with uphill stretches as a comparison
    kdh
  • mike101
    mike101 Posts: 42
    50 * 14 @ 80 rpm = 22.4 mph so something doesn't sound right.
  • ck99
    ck99 Posts: 44
    Hi KarlDH, Marco from Elite asked me to do some further tests on the Qubo. So, tonight I set the weight to be 80KG, age to be 50 (can't see how how it makes a difference to power - but just makes me sad). I then rode for 20 minutes at Level 5. My average speed was 20.5 to 21.5 KMH. My average power reported was 120 to 125. My cadence was 75-85. My HR was soon at 80% of max (180). Marco asked me to ride at 25kmh, but I could not get that fast as my max speed was 22.5 KMH but this was very hard to sustain. I was sweating buckets.

    One of my cycling friends uses http://bikecalculator.com/ and if I input a weight of 80KG, bike weight of 8KG and a speed of 20.82kmh (see above), then this requires power of 230 but at a gradient of 3%. If I set the elevation at 0%, then for my weight I should be able to do 21KMH for a power output of 77 ie very easily. My wife, bless her, who is not a regular cyclist can do 21 KMH on the flat very easily without breaking sweat on her town bike.

    Until I bought the Qubo, I was a regular gym person, using bikes that calculated power. In most sessions, I did a long steady hill programme and averaged about 25-30KMH @ 75% max HR for 60 minutes with a cadence level of 85-90. In all those sessions, the power being reported was about 210-230. My 20 minute Qubo ride was harder than the 60 minute gym bike ride.

    If I am at 80% of my MAX hr and only doing 20KMH, then I am climbing a hill and outputting well over 200 of power and not the 120-125 the Qubo is reporting. When I did the etape last year in the Alps, STRAVA thinks I averaged 197 over 10 hours.

    I still think that there are a few suspect units and I have been unlucky. Twice. Third time lucky?
  • karldh
    karldh Posts: 34
    I tend to think all our units are not calibrated correctly in terms of power output from what you have said , mine included Has marco given any indication about what they intend to do about it, I have sent Elite an email quoting this forum thread link but have not heard anything back. I just want my trainer to be more accurate as it was described in the test featured in cycling plus which it won. Do you think they can re calibrate them or fix the inaccuracies and what's more does it look like Elite would do that
    kdh
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    Has anybody put a powermeter onto one of these turbos to do a proper assessment? I'm in Lytham (lancs) if anybody is local and wants to do a quick check against my powertap next week. Unless you use a calibrated source there's just a lot of guessing going on.
  • karldh
    karldh Posts: 34
    Would be good idea but I am over in Yorkshire
    kdh
  • I've done two Powertap tests on the Elite Qubo Hydromag, which I understand is the same as the Digital. The Elite published curves bear no relation to the measured values and are out by +100%. This is based on the Elite published curves being inputed in to Trainerroad.

    If someone would like to explain how to display an Excel graph / table using BB codes I can post up.
    Live to ski
    Ski to live
  • Critzz
    Critzz Posts: 3
    Hi All. I am new to this forum. Kiwi in NZ.

    After extensive research etc I received my Elite Qubo Digital Wireless 3 weeks ago and it was faulty out of the box (a bit was broken) so I sent it back. Got the replacement 3 days ago and have run into two problems.

    1. The head unit when set up read 199kph and 999 watts and the timer and distance was going before I had started pedalling. When I did pedal the display did not change. This was after doing everything by the book and even changing the battery twice.

    2. If (and it only happened twice) the head unit was working the power was as you have all described. I was pedalling at 150watts and it felt like 250watts used to on my Tacx flow.

    In total I have used it for about 10 minutes and am rather annoyed.

    I have emailed Elite and also Wiggle who I received the trainer from. Elite haven't replied and Wiggle are doing their best from their end.

    Has anyone had any further updates?

    Chris
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    Critzz wrote:
    Has anyone had any further updates?

    Chris

    I'd stick in back in its box and send it back to Wiggle, with a print out of this thread. Based on this thread alone, it sounds rubbish and not fit-for-purpose. Unfortunately for Wiggle, they are responsible for whatever they sell. Fortunately for you, Wiggle are a good shop.
  • GiantMike wrote:
    Critzz wrote:
    Has anyone had any further updates?

    Chris

    I'd stick in back in its box and send it back to Wiggle, with a print out of this thread. Based on this thread alone, it sounds rubbish and not fit-for-purpose. Unfortunately for Wiggle, they are responsible for whatever they sell. Fortunately for you, Wiggle are a good shop.

    Your second constructive post on this thread.

    Do you sell a competing trainer?

    I have the Elite Qubo Wireless too, when I put the battery in the head unit filled the screen with 8s and 9s. I took out the battery and put it back in again, all was fine (I couldn't wait to set it up yet it had just been delivered on a cold day). The resistance does seem higher than I expected but no one has as yet run a power meter on one to show if they are at all accurate or as OP suggested 50% out.

    I suspect it is our feeble legs in March verses an ego from October.
  • Critzz
    Critzz Posts: 3
    Unfortunately as I am based I New Zealand we are half way through the season. So no I am not basing this on weak legs. In the past I warmed up at 160 watts with hr sitting at 100.at 150 watts of the elite my heart rate is up at 150. Definitely not weak legs.
  • I think it would be interesting to see a power meter test against it. End of the day its not the end of the world if its power calculation is wrong. Its hardly going to compare to a SRM anyway its just a mid priced turbo.
    As a turbo that has built in programs that can be made easier or harder then it works really well.

    But if you need accurate dater for racing then it may not be the best choice.
    If it displaying far less power than its delivering as people have suggested here then I am going to ride like a beast this year.
  • GiantMike
    GiantMike Posts: 3,139
    GiantMike wrote:
    Critzz wrote:
    Has anyone had any further updates?

    Chris

    I'd stick in back in its box and send it back to Wiggle, with a print out of this thread. Based on this thread alone, it sounds rubbish and not fit-for-purpose. Unfortunately for Wiggle, they are responsible for whatever they sell. Fortunately for you, Wiggle are a good shop.

    Your second constructive post on this thread.

    Do you sell a competing trainer?

    It's my third actually. You missed the one where I offer the use of my powertap to see what the actual issue was.

    No, not selling any competition.

    Just pointing out (based on the customer's concerns and problems listed here), that if a product doesn't appear to work properly and the company doesn't know what the problem is, maybe people should send them back as not fit for purpose.

    Maybe write a random number on a piece of paper and stick on your handlebars as a pseudo-trainer. That would be equally accurate. In fact, it's probably MORE accurate because it will be right a couple of times per session.

    Keep up the good work, and the offer still stands if anybody is interested (the powertap not the number on a piece of paper).
  • It's my third actually. You missed the one where I offer the use of my powertap to see what the actual issue was.

    My bad.
  • Herbsman
    Herbsman Posts: 2,029
    How much do these things cost?
    CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!
  • ck99
    ck99 Posts: 44
    I am returning my 2nd unit. Still not working. One more go or I will swap to a TACX.
  • Herbsman
    Herbsman Posts: 2,029
    I've seen one of these for £400.

    For less than double the price you can get an actual power meter, that you can use on the turbo indoors AND on your bike outdoors.

    I know an extra £400 is a lot of money if you're on a tight budget, but still. Food for thought.
    CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!