How competitive is 4th cat racing?

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Comments

  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    okgo wrote:
    (David you know everyone can see your results don't you?)

    No I didn't know that, nor do I care. Its besides the point as I have only raced in one race that wasn't e/1/2 this is about 4th cat races, my observations about 4th cat races are valid...and oh look I won 2 of them and got a string of top 5's last year. My results this year reflect the 3 unfortunate bouts of illness since January and BC showing 3 races I've been declined for as non-finishers.

    You rarely (if ever?) race outside of 2/3 so must like it easy.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    Its not besides the point, you've been pretty blunt about how its certain people doing the shouting which is rubbish.

    Yes I like it easy, so easy that I race other people in my category.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    okgo wrote:
    Its not besides the point, you've been pretty blunt about how its certain people doing the shouting which is rubbish.

    Yes I like it easy, so easy that I race other people in my category.

    Not sure what my results have to do with people who shout? Read carefully; in my experience its the people who I described who do a fair bit of the shouting. Your racing skills are obviously a lot better than your reading ones.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    I'm sure you don't need it spelling out that you finished 24th or worse a number of times in 4th or 3/4 races yet you're belittling those people like you've never been off the podium :)
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    edited April 2013
    okgo wrote:
    I'm sure you don't need it spelling out that you finished 24th or worse a number of times in 4th or 3/4 races yet you're belittling those people like you've never been off the podium :)

    Breaking news, my first season racing I didn't win right off the bat or even do very well for the first 5 months. I'm not trying to in any way portray I'm some billy big boll0cks of racing. I'm saying what I have observed in races. I still don't see where I finish in a race has anything to do with big blokes being shouty.
  • displacedaussie
    displacedaussie Posts: 356
    Back on topic:

    4th cat racing is not as competitive as stupid forum arguments. :roll:
  • DavidJB
    DavidJB Posts: 2,019
    displacedaussie wrote:
    Back on topic:

    4th cat racing is not as competitive as stupid forum arguments. :roll:

    It's fine I'll just sit on okgo's wheel and shout at him constantly every time he time he moves sideways next time I'm slumming it in Surrey. :lol:
  • maryka
    maryka Posts: 748
    DavidJB wrote:
    displacedaussie wrote:
    Back on topic:

    4th cat racing is not as competitive as stupid forum arguments. :roll:

    It's fine I'll just sit on okgo's wheel and shout at him constantly every time he time he moves sideways next time I'm slumming it in Surrey. :lol:

    If you can make the break that is :D
    http://www.twitter.com/smaryka
  • joe.90
    joe.90 Posts: 171
    i find it very funny.

    my experience goes like this:

    4th cats - slowest/most shouting (ok you could argue the riders arnt as good so they need to be told, but again in my experience there is a similar amount of shouting either way)

    3rds - faster / less shouting

    e1/2's - fastest / little to no shouting

    can you not see the irony in that.

    i personally am far too nakered to shout at anything, most of the time i open my mouth some pathetic tired whimper noise comes out.
  • wcrombie
    wcrombie Posts: 10
    joe.90 wrote:
    i find it very funny.

    my experience goes like this:

    4th cats - slowest/most shouting (ok you could argue the riders arnt as good so they need to be told, but again in my experience there is a similar amount of shouting either way)

    3rds - faster / less shouting

    e1/2's - fastest / little to no shouting

    can you not see the irony in that.

    i personally am far too nakered to shout at anything, most of the time i open my mouth some pathetic tired whimper noise comes out.

    IMO there is less shouting in the better grades as there is less to shout about and also they are not worried about bumping bars and the things that happen in racing.
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    Just finished my blog entry on the race at the weekend anyway - added in a bit about the 'shouty men' inspired by you guys.

    http://twohundredandsomethingwatts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/race-report-phil-corley-cycles-day-at.html

    Will be useful for anyone looking at how competitive 4th cat racing is because I've written about my preparation, and there are links to my strava data to look at.
  • tommyl7
    tommyl7 Posts: 14
    Hi,also raced on sat in the 4th cat race (first time racing at MK). Think I must have been 3 or 4 ahead of you as heard the crash behind

    Little ropey on the climb as people just seemed to stop fairly abruptly when their legs went.

    Ended up around in the top 15 but choose the wrong guy to lead me out (meant to go for the zappis lad too as knew he was a good bet for the win but got boxed in a little on base of the hill

    Based in Oxford and ride for Cowley Road Condors if you ever need extra training (was wearing flouro pink and black)
  • Lycraboy_Andy
    Lycraboy_Andy Posts: 37
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    Just finished my blog entry on the race at the weekend anyway - added in a bit about the 'shouty men' inspired by you guys.

    http://twohundredandsomethingwatts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/race-report-phil-corley-cycles-day-at.html

    Will be useful for anyone looking at how competitive 4th cat racing is because I've written about my preparation, and there are links to my strava data to look at.

    Found that very interesting so thank you! You didn't say if you were injured in the crash? I assume not?
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    Thanks - I wasn't really 'injured' just a bit of swelling and minor road rash - had much worse when I can off on black ice going downhill at 30mph last autumn - thought my hip would never be the same again after being so swollen :shock:

    Crashing at 20mph is a much nicer experience!

    More concerned about the damage to bike and kit to be honest!

    £10 for a new shifter face plate + another £15 for the LBS to fit it
    £10 for new bar tape (had to downgrade to Fizik microtex because Lizard skin DSP is twice as expensive :( )
    £15 for new leg warmers
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    Just finished my blog entry on the race at the weekend anyway - added in a bit about the 'shouty men' inspired by you guys.

    http://twohundredandsomethingwatts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/race-report-phil-corley-cycles-day-at.html

    Will be useful for anyone looking at how competitive 4th cat racing is because I've written about my preparation, and there are links to my strava data to look at.

    Good blog, enjoyed reading it.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    wcrombie wrote:
    joe.90 wrote:
    i find it very funny.

    my experience goes like this:

    4th cats - slowest/most shouting (ok you could argue the riders arnt as good so they need to be told, but again in my experience there is a similar amount of shouting either way)

    3rds - faster / less shouting

    e1/2's - fastest / little to no shouting

    can you not see the irony in that.

    i personally am far too nakered to shout at anything, most of the time i open my mouth some pathetic tired whimper noise comes out.

    IMO there is less shouting in the better grades as there is less to shout about and also they are not worried about bumping bars and the things that happen in racing.

    If you are who I think you are, you politely telling me to do a turn on Monday then smashing me to bits was genius! Had someone shouted I think I would have done nothing but because you asked in a polite manner I actually felt a bit more compelled, I was tricked :D
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • crumbschief
    crumbschief Posts: 3,399
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    Just finished my blog entry on the race at the weekend anyway - added in a bit about the 'shouty men' inspired by you guys.

    http://twohundredandsomethingwatts.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/race-report-phil-corley-cycles-day-at.html

    Will be useful for anyone looking at how competitive 4th cat racing is because I've written about my preparation, and there are links to my strava data to look at.

    I liked your words,have fun with your racing fella.
  • Lycraboy_Andy
    Lycraboy_Andy Posts: 37
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    Lycraboy_Andy wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    4th Cat races are a lot more 'mouthy' than the higher level races. Its one thing I don't miss about them.

    "Mouthy" in what way? Loads of people with 3k bikes thinking they're Wiggo or Cav??

    I keep postponing my race debut due to lack of miles, I don't mind coming last but don't want to be spectacularly last! :lol:


    Yep.. loads of people on £10k bikes shouting 'oi' and 'woah' constantly... but unwilling to go to the front and drive the pace to avoid the dangerous bunching up.

    I wouldn't worry about a lack of miles in 4th cat crit races...

    I haven't done too much over the winter.. did 3 weeks of heavy miles... then the following week my race prep involved doing a 2x20 interval session 4 days before the race, then the sufferfest 'angels' two days before the race :lol:

    I was sitting comfortably in the top 10 for most of the race.. up until the crash anyway :roll:

    You seem like a helpful and knowledgeable chap....I keep hesitating about my race debut. How will I know when I'm 'ready' to take part in a 4th cat crit? As I've said before I don't expect to come anywhere near the front this season but want to use it as training for next year. I just don't want to end up trundling round at 6mph where my legs have given up :lol: I suppose I could always pull out when I've had enough?
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    edited April 2013
    Lycraboy_Andy wrote:

    You seem like a helpful and knowledgeable chap....I keep hesitating about my race debut. How will I know when I'm 'ready' to take part in a 4th cat crit? As I've said before I don't expect to come anywhere near the front this season but want to use it as training for next year. I just don't want to end up trundling round at 6mph where my legs have given up :lol: I suppose I could always pull out when I've had enough?

    No simple answer - but as a guide look at what/where you are going to race and then do the maths on the average speeds. Work out what sort of speeds you can do in a pack & if your anywhere near and can hold on in the first 2-3 laps until it calms down then you should be fine.

    For what its worth I raced my first race & got dropped but didn't pull out. Glad I did't as spent half the race on my own but then caught up with a few others and was motivated enough to chase onto the back of them for the rest of the race.

    Worth racing just for the experience & also makes for good training too.
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • cojones
    cojones Posts: 131
    I'm a C5 paracyclist and have now done 4 races, 2 where I was the only pararider in the race and I came 'spectacularly last' as you put it and 2 where there have been other paracyclists and I either haven't come 'spectacularly last' or haven't come last at all. My last race on Saturday was really enjoyable as I was in the main bunch, not at the back of the bunch, for a good part of the race and then rode with a couple of others when we finally did get dropped by the ablebodied guys. I'm really enjoying the experience and find that I improve race on race.

    What I'm trying to say is don't try to work out if you're ready, go and get stuck in, then you'll know one way or the other and the chances are that you'll do better than you think. There's nothing wrong with coming last, the experience will help you improve.
    http://www.tuneyourdi2.com
  • Lycraboy_Andy
    Lycraboy_Andy Posts: 37
    Thank you for your replies guys. I think the general opinion is I need to 'just do it' :lol:

    I've got my eye on a go-race event at the Ford test track at Dunton early in May, although it runs all summer if I miss the first couple. About time I ordered a couple of jerseys eh?
  • danlikesbikes
    danlikesbikes Posts: 3,898
    Lycraboy_Andy wrote:
    Thank you for your replies guys. I think the general opinion is I need to 'just do it' :lol:

    I've got my eye on a go-race event at the Ford test track at Dunton early in May, although it runs all summer if I miss the first couple. About time I ordered a couple of jerseys eh?

    If I were you I would jump in and race, am sure that if you are off the front group pace you might find yourself with a few others & can get a bit into a group of your own. If not head down and try doing it as a solo & you will soon find your fitness comes along & having a hard headed will not give up attitude gets you a long way
    Pain hurts much less if its topped off with beating your mates to top of a climb.
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    edited April 2013
    Lycraboy_Andy wrote:
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    Lycraboy_Andy wrote:
    DavidJB wrote:
    4th Cat races are a lot more 'mouthy' than the higher level races. Its one thing I don't miss about them.

    "Mouthy" in what way? Loads of people with 3k bikes thinking they're Wiggo or Cav??

    I keep postponing my race debut due to lack of miles, I don't mind coming last but don't want to be spectacularly last! :lol:


    Yep.. loads of people on £10k bikes shouting 'oi' and 'woah' constantly... but unwilling to go to the front and drive the pace to avoid the dangerous bunching up.

    I wouldn't worry about a lack of miles in 4th cat crit races...

    I haven't done too much over the winter.. did 3 weeks of heavy miles... then the following week my race prep involved doing a 2x20 interval session 4 days before the race, then the sufferfest 'angels' two days before the race :lol:

    I was sitting comfortably in the top 10 for most of the race.. up until the crash anyway :roll:

    You seem like a helpful and knowledgeable chap....I keep hesitating about my race debut. How will I know when I'm 'ready' to take part in a 4th cat crit? As I've said before I don't expect to come anywhere near the front this season but want to use it as training for next year. I just don't want to end up trundling round at 6mph where my legs have given up :lol: I suppose I could always pull out when I've had enough?

    I think its pretty easy to know when you're ready - the pace isn't too hard. If you're a Group 1 rider with your club then you'll cope with it fine - and chances are if you're thinking about racing then you know you're quite a strong rider (or have the potential to be)?

    If you know you're a strong rider then just go for it.

    If you're thinking about your potential strength then perhaps you know that you're not really strong enough yet?

    Having said that there is a big mix of abilities in the 4th cat bunch from what I saw - there were some really strong riders, but then some who looked like they were really pushing themselves just to sit in the bunch - only saw a couple of riders getting dropped and lapped but not sure how many others gave up and just stopped.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    It isn't about being quick, not about being quick at all.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    okgo wrote:
    It isn't about being quick, not about being quick at all.

    Fixed it for you.
  • okgo
    okgo Posts: 4,368
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    It isn't about being quick, not about being quick at all.

    Fixed it for you.


    I can't see what you've done?

    But it isn't the speed of the race that catches people out, its the changes of pace, the acceleration into the red, then recovering, multiple times, its a different kind of fitness to chugging around the local country side at 19 mph.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    okgo wrote:
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    It isn't about being quick, not about being quick at all.

    Fixed it for you.


    I can't see what you've done?

    But it isn't the speed of the race that catches people out, its the changes of pace, the acceleration into the red, then recovering, multiple times, its a different kind of fitness to chugging around the local country side at 19 mph.

    changed 'quick' to 'strong' since being a 'strong' rider incorporates all different aspects from speed, to ability to cope with changes of pace, high intensity riding etc.
  • Average Mark
    Average Mark Posts: 37
    I raced my first 4th cat race at the weekend after a few years racing MTB. The pace is not a problem at all but what i will say is if your going to give it a go for god's sake make sure your bike handling is up to scratch. The best advice i read/took was to never overlap wheels, i managed to dive out of 2 crashes in front of me due to leaving a foot gap. I didn't even bother contesting the sprint after seeing how people around me where riding!
  • wcrombie
    wcrombie Posts: 10
    okgo wrote:
    wcrombie wrote:
    joe.90 wrote:
    i find it very funny.

    my experience goes like this:

    4th cats - slowest/most shouting (ok you could argue the riders arnt as good so they need to be told, but again in my experience there is a similar amount of shouting either way)

    3rds - faster / less shouting

    e1/2's - fastest / little to no shouting

    can you not see the irony in that.

    i personally am far too nakered to shout at anything, most of the time i open my mouth some pathetic tired whimper noise comes out.

    IMO there is less shouting in the better grades as there is less to shout about and also they are not worried about bumping bars and the things that happen in racing.

    If you are who I think you are, you politely telling me to do a turn on Monday then smashing me to bits was genius! Had someone shouted I think I would have done nothing but because you asked in a polite manner I actually felt a bit more compelled, I was tricked :D

    I think it was actually Mike Debney if you were thinking about the Alan Rosner Memorial 2/3/4 crit although I was also part of the breakaway.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    cojones wrote:
    *Facepalm* duh...of course...thanks for pointing out the obvious, seems I was having a blonde moment*

    Cheers,

    Coj

    * now I've probably offended blondes as well as paracyclists :lol:

    Its ok they wont understand :D

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