Mac vs PC
Comments
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^My laptop has one, but then it is a 17" monster (in terms of size rather than power).
I'm ambigous about macs, and really can't see the advantage of iThings anymore, but I would caution against mistaking a desire for simplicity with stupidity, or a lack of interest in spec numbers for gullibility. I'm writing this in a library in a university that is not famed for taking idiots. Most of the laptops on display are macs, I suspect because portability and not having to waste time faffing around with config files (admittedly, windows 7 and 8 seem to be at least as fuss-free now, but bad reputations stick) count for more than a great graphics card for them.
Put it this way: what would you rather ride, an £800 steel singlespeed or a £200 alloy full-sus with disc brakes? Better headlines do not always a better product make.0 -
Yes, as I say. And yes, my job is fairly technical, and I mostly use the laptop on trains, hence my need for a number pad and matte screen, and the ability to run a Microsoft database and the .NET framework... so my needs aren't the same as everyone's.RDW wrote:ChrisAOnABike wrote:But no number pads on any of the Mac laptops - that I can find anyway. The iMac, albeit beautiful, is a little large for the train. I mean, I know quite a lot of PC laptops don't have them either, but you don't have to go all that far up the price scale to get one with.
It's pretty unusual even on a PC laptop, isn't it? (I've never had a laptop with one). There are USB and wireless numberpads, of course, though I imagine they're not very practical if you're stuck using a seatback 'desk' on the train.
But the people that changed from Windows 95 (or even XP, IMO) to Mac, and are basing their view on Mac-now-or-then versus Windows-then, aren't making a fair comparison.
To get a fair comparison, you have to compare with Windows now.
Not disputing for a moment that it's taken a long time for Windows to catch up, but there is lovely hardware available from the likes of Samsung and Sony, Windows 7 is still a delight IMO, and Windows 8 will be fine with touchscreen devices. The Microsoft Surface isn't flawless, but I'm hoping that it will take off, since it will be a real alternative to tablet and ultrabook.
Plenty of people will continue to pay a premium for Mac, of course, and that's fine.Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
bompington wrote:
Looks like Mr Dell should be heading down to PC World to pick up a few discs for a heck of a lot less then?estampida wrote:and on the PC side windows takes too much of a cut, a £300 laptop, just slightly less than 50% goes to windows for the OS license, its like printing money
Or maybe your figure is a bit fanciful...
I am quoting Lord Sir Allen Sugar, when he was talking about the early days of Amstrad and meeting bill gates (circa 1982)
The cost of windows 1 was £1 per machine, but once people got used to software being provided windows ramped the cost up
How much do you think the bare bones of a laptop actually costs?
considering you can buy an andriod tablet for.....
http://www.androidtabletbay.com/mid-7-i ... g0kjufusr7
that was the comment of a true d1ck......0 -
You claim an OEM windows licence costs somewhere near £150estampida wrote:bompington wrote:
Looks like Mr Dell should be heading down to PC World to pick up a few discs for a heck of a lot less then?estampida wrote:and on the PC side windows takes too much of a cut, a £300 laptop, just slightly less than 50% goes to windows for the OS license, its like printing money
Or maybe your figure is a bit fanciful...
I am quoting Lord Sir Allen Sugar, when he was talking about the early days of Amstrad and meeting bill gates (circa 1982)
The cost of windows 1 was £1 per machine, but once people got used to software being provided windows ramped the cost up
How much do you think the bare bones of a laptop actually costs?
considering you can buy an andriod tablet for.....
http://www.androidtabletbay.com/mid-7-i ... g0kjufusr7
that was the comment of a true d1ck......
I provide you with a link as evidence that it's actually more like $60-$80, i.e. £40 upwards. That's a fairly significant difference, don't you think?
Never mind that windows 8 costs well under £100 retail, hence my weak joke about PC World.
All done in a pretty mild manner using neutral language.
How on earth does that justify your little ad hom swipe at the end?0 -
Yawnmr_eddy wrote:Ok so in a effort to ignite debate I thought I would put up a couple of posts on the problems of both Mac and PC. As I IT Engineer I believe I have more than enough experience with both platforms to offer my thoughts.
Firstly its the turn of Mac's , so what are the problems (in my opinion).#
1. Massively Overpriced.
Ok for several years now Mac's have been incorporating Intel and other traditionally PC based components into their computers, they are made in China just like every just about every other computer (don't let the designed in California sticker fool you).
So why do they cost twice, thrice or even four times the price of a similar spec Windows based computer? Assume you have £1000 for a laptop this will get you a Acer V3 with 17" screen, Intel Core i7 processor, 16GB of RAM, 1000GB HDD and stand alone graphics, Blu Ray and Win 8.
For the same cash you get the cheapest mac book pro (£999) with 13" screen, Intel core i5 processor, 4GB Ram, 500GB HDD and Intel shared graphics. If you want the retina display then better start that re-mortgage application
2. Upgrade Options.
Ok so assume you have bought a Mac desktop computer and a Windows desktop computer. Lets assume the same £1000 budget and both computers are fine. Now lets assume its 18 months down the line and you want to play the latest and greatest "COD:When Korea goes bad" game that requires some immense graphics card.
(Let's just look past the fact that most games are not even available on Mac)
In the Windows computer you pop over to Amazon or Ebuyer etc and for £60 you buy a decent PCI-E graphics card, slot it into place, install the drivers job done. You are all set for another 18 months.
With the Mac your stuffed, that's right the only upgrade on your Mac (that is to say the only upgrade that does not require soldering equipment and a note of approval from Mac HQ) is the RAM. Solution = Buy new Mac! EPIC FAIL!!!
3. No right click! Aaargh!
You have Office or Photoshop or any software on Windows and you want to pick a task, lets say compress and send a file to email, you just use the right click feature of your two click mouse. Job Done!
On you silly 1 click mouse on the Mac you have type War and Peace into the keyboard in the way of shortcuts before being able to do the same thing.
4. Mac's are for idiots!
In my profession I see a lot of different people, I admit this next point is stereo typing but I am of the unshakeable conviction that people who have Mac's are of questionable mental ability. Without exception every person who has brought me a Mac to fix/repair etc is someone who I would not trust to sit the right way on the toilet.
If you are the sort of person who used to have a Windows computer but it kept getting viruses and it subsequently turns out that you are also the sort of person who clicks yes to a 'Would you like a £1'000'000' pop up on the Internet then maybe your first priority is not to switch computers but maybe wonder if you are actually ready to have a computer in the first place.
This leads me onto my final point
5. Mac's DO get viruses !
Just because most viruses are found on Windows computers does not mean that Mac's can't get a virus. It's simple really if the majority of computer users around the world use Windows then the architects of viruses are going to make the viruses for Windows based computers. The myth that Mac's are immune to viruses is rubbish! As Mac's get more and more popular there will be more and more viruses. Simple
I also re-iterate my point above, if you are constantly getting viruses then maybe you need to stop going on dodgy 'Men's special interest websites' and stop replying to the 'grow 10 inches' emails !
I have owned the same Windows laptop for 2 years and I have never had a virus.
Ok that is the Mac rant over, I am generating my list for why Windows computers suck now too, so this will be a 2 way argument all in the name of fair play.
Thoughts ?
Crumple
Into the bin0 -
bompington wrote:
You claim an OEM windows licence costs somewhere near £150estampida wrote:bompington wrote:
Looks like Mr Dell should be heading down to PC World to pick up a few discs for a heck of a lot less then?estampida wrote:and on the PC side windows takes too much of a cut, a £300 laptop, just slightly less than 50% goes to windows for the OS license, its like printing money
Or maybe your figure is a bit fanciful...
I am quoting Lord Sir Allen Sugar, when he was talking about the early days of Amstrad and meeting bill gates (circa 1982)
The cost of windows 1 was £1 per machine, but once people got used to software being provided windows ramped the cost up
How much do you think the bare bones of a laptop actually costs?
considering you can buy an andriod tablet for.....
http://www.androidtabletbay.com/mid-7-i ... g0kjufusr7
that was the comment of a true d1ck......
I provide you with a link as evidence that it's actually more like $60-$80, i.e. £40 upwards. That's a fairly significant difference, don't you think?
Never mind that windows 8 costs well under £100 retail, hence my weak joke about PC World.
All done in a pretty mild manner using neutral language.
How on earth does that justify your little ad hom swipe at the end?
the only reason that windows 8 is so cheap is that there is now competition, as mentioned before android, linux..... and so on, this has driven down the cost, also combined with this is the window 7 fiasco........
and that is US retail price, the actual cost on this island will be slightly higher (the Uk has a great history of costing more for no apparent reason) and assuming you could manufacture here...........
as for language I can call myself a dick if I want to.......
why read too much into the words rather than the wisdom.......
or maybe you can find a reason that £50 (maybe £100) worth of parts and (Dollar value) $80, equates to a 250 - 300 laptop once retailed (bearing in mind these machines are not as well spec'd as an apple - as per the debate on the cost of them and high end laptops?
But you are free to think what you will, as am I0 -
and after a little think
windows is £80
office is well it depends on the version, but can range from £65 - £200 (student version, sans powerpoint is £100)
so a bare pc with the software you require to do all the normal pc things is oh look at that £145...... (student set up £180)
im sure you can find cheaper but I did not try that hard
and windows 7 from your god send PC world is (check below) add office and its more than the production cost of a cheap laptop.....
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/microsoft ... 07185034:s
Thank god the cost of BIOS is hidden in the cost of the mother board.......
I could start on real rip offs such as the xbox360 that has parts totalling £20 with locked OS and retails for £120, that's without bluray compatibility (so early 00's)
and I have run out of steam, better get on the PED's out...... :roll:0 -
I love this topic as I know a little more about programming than cycles
Its really quite simple, if you want to write emails, surf the net etc then get the cheapest which will be a PC.
For work systems, network etc then again, windows works better as it is simply more compatible.
If you want to do real processing work, programming, coding, analysis, development etc then it has to be a mac.
Its really quite simple.Living MY dream.0 -
mr_eddy wrote:4. Mac's are for idiots!
I was waiting for somebody else to pick up on this one but it seems like I'm the only pedant left in Cake Stop.
Don't use an apostrophe for a plural "s" and then call other people idiots. That's the sort of thing that you should have mastered at primary school. :evil:
Anyway, Macs rule. I tried installing BBC iPlayer Desktop on my PC and my Mac the other day. It took 30 seconds with the Mac. The PC just refused.0 -
Hear, hear...johnfinch wrote:mr_eddy wrote:4. Mac's are for idiots!
I was waiting for somebody else to pick up on this one but it seems like I'm the only pedant left in Cake Stop.
Don't use an apostrophe for a plural "s" and then call other people idiots. That's the sort of thing that you should have mastered at primary school. :evil:
Anyway, Macs rule. I tried installing BBC iPlayer Desktop on my PC and my Mac the other day. It took 30 seconds with the Mac. The PC just refused.0 -
To use iPlayer on my pc took precisely 0 seconds installation time though, as you don't need an app for it...0
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You need Adobe Air for iPlayer. My PC just would not install and wouldn't it even give me an error message.
EDIT: Sorry Bompington, I also meant to say that I didn't just want to watch programmes online. It's better for me to download them on to the iPlayer desktop application, because then I can watch them in HD, which I can't do if I'm watching online.0 -
I guess I feel compelled to weigh in on this one.
I am running a 1st generation Macbook (in 2006) at home for all my media/work/general browsing and it is running beautifully. Better than the day I bought it really. The only upgrades I have made were to up the RAM from 512Mb to 2Gb and to replaced the useless 60Gb HDD with a faster 500Gb one. If I felt like splashing the cash, I could go with a 256Gb SSD and make it run better still. However, the problem is, and seemigly always will be, that the rest of the hardware is too underspecced when compared to a PC alternative. Although I picked my Mac up for £600 when it was launched, but still only got a 1.83GHz Core Duo processor, 60Gb HDD, 512Mb RAM and a glossy 13" screen.
The time has come for me to replace this machine as it no longer meets my needs for the ever-increasing demands on 'minimum system requirements' and I will probably be going to a custom PC for one reason. Cost. As much as I would like to remain in the Mac family, I have switched to a Nexus 4 from iPhone and not-with-standing the compatitability issue brought about there, I cannot justify forking out over £1000 for another computer at the moment. But we shall see if that alters in the near future.
As to the OP's point about Mac users generally being idiots. Well, I hate to rain on your parade. However, your failure to master the more basic points of grammar and the English language really undermine your argument, as already noted. As to my own intelligence, for balance, I'd really like to see you come and try your hand at research-based chemistry (formulation development). Now I'm not suggesting you couldn't manage it, my point is more of the 'it requires a fair bit of mental application' flavour.
Everyone has preferences and targeting the Mac community like you have, along with levelling judgments upon those that might choose to use a Mac, and their likely intelligence/personality etc, just isn't the way to stir up a well-reasoned and structured debate.
Just my opinion really.0 -
VTech wrote:... a top range PC we would need around 40 minutes to crack the code and then the PC would cack itself within 3-6 months and need replacing as 100% load on the average PC doesnt last too long !
So, I purchased a simple Mac, at £2200 for the i7 with 8gb ram we set about coding to allow windows to be installed and ran the codec breaker and immediately the crack times went down to around 30-75 seconds !!!!!
Interesting. Why the greatly reduced time?Purveyor of "up"0 -
Windows has too many gateways and behind the scenes programmes taking memory and processor power whereas with a mac, when coding the power is sent to the system requirement and therefor getting the job done.
We generally promote mac for all of our coding a software work now, we even for jake Humphrey to convert a couple of years ago Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:Windows has too many gateways and behind the scenes programmes taking memory and processor power whereas with a mac, when coding the power is sent to the system requirement and therefor getting the job done.
We generally promote mac for all of our coding a software work now, we even for jake Humphrey to convert a couple of years ago
When I've had problems with a PC, I've opened the task manager. It's baffling to see all these programs open and running as I never asked them to.
One job, thats all it has to do, one job. And it can't even do that properly. So much for artificial intelligence.
This videoclip is the story of my life, when using some PC's (small children look away)... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xU-rJNgoWU"The Prince of Wales is now the King of France" - Calton Kirby0 -
I've just purchased my new MacBook so onwards and upwards
I truly believe that the apple products are too highly priced but once you've shelled out the money you soon forget the cost when your using it.Living MY dream.0 -
I have a mac and its all i use now. no need for anything else 0
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Hoopdriver wrote:
Hear, hear...johnfinch wrote:mr_eddy wrote:4. Mac's are for idiots!
I was waiting for somebody else to pick up on this one but it seems like I'm the only pedant left in Cake Stop.
Don't use an apostrophe for a plural "s" and then call other people idiots. That's the sort of thing that you should have mastered at primary school. :evil:
Anyway, Macs rule. I tried installing BBC iPlayer Desktop on my PC and my Mac the other day. It took 30 seconds with the Mac. The PC just refused.
Doh, you are a fool. It's 'here, here'... 0 -
ThomThom wrote:Hoopdriver wrote:
Hear, hear...johnfinch wrote:mr_eddy wrote:4. Mac's are for idiots!
I was waiting for somebody else to pick up on this one but it seems like I'm the only pedant left in Cake Stop.
Don't use an apostrophe for a plural "s" and then call other people idiots. That's the sort of thing that you should have mastered at primary school. :evil:
Anyway, Macs rule. I tried installing BBC iPlayer Desktop on my PC and my Mac the other day. It took 30 seconds with the Mac. The PC just refused.
Doh, you are a fool. It's 'here, here'... 0 -
Hear, hear... is a contraction of hear him, hear him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear.
Here, here... is something footballers shout.
tick - tick - tick0 -
I think, or perhaps I should say I hope, the guy knew that and was just trying to be funny.metronome wrote:Hear, hear... is a contraction of hear him, hear him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear,_hear.
Here, here... is something footballers shout.0 -
johnfinch wrote:You need Adobe Air for iPlayer. My PC just would not install and wouldn't it even give me an error message.
EDIT: Sorry Bompington, I also meant to say that I didn't just want to watch programmes online. It's better for me to download them on to the iPlayer desktop application, because then I can watch them in HD, which I can't do if I'm watching online.
So that's a fail for the Mac then
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PC for kids, OSX for men
JK of course, but you have many more doors open with a Mac, there are countless things you struggle with on a PC that are childs play on a mac yet little that you can do on a PC that struggle with on a Mac. Hell, even windows runs better on a Mac than on a PC !Living MY dream.0 -
Macs are a little easier to use once you get used to them. However, the insane cost and the the overall Apple "experience" rule them out for me.
It's odd but since the first Apple Macintosh, Apple have not produced one single piece of software or hardware that I have wanted to own. You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.0 -
Other than your whole career if your skillset happens to be SQL Server and .NETVTech wrote:yet little that you can do on a PC that struggle with on a Mac Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
mr_eddy wrote:In answer to Giant Man. I DO own a G4 Mac and I have been working in IT for 16 years so I think I am reasonably well qualified to comment
16 Years in IT and you didnt know how to right click on a mac :roll: ... ok..
You also fail to mention that your £1000 mac will probably still be worth £300-£400 in 4-5 years time. Your £1000 PC wont..0 -
ChrisAOnABike wrote:
Other than your whole career if your skillset happens to be SQL Server and .NETVTech wrote:yet little that you can do on a PC that struggle with on a Mac
But you can run windows on your mac at speeds you have never seen on a PC.Living MY dream.0 -
Yes, I'm not so convinced by the performance claims, I'm afraid. I've read a lot of reviews of Macs running Windows, and although they're good, they're not that good. And the desktop power Macs are ridiculously expensive - I can't justify 2-3k for a desktop PC when I really only need to spend less than half that much.VTech wrote:ChrisAOnABike wrote:
Other than your whole career if your skillset happens to be SQL Server and .NETVTech wrote:yet little that you can do on a PC that struggle with on a Mac
But you can run windows on your mac at speeds you have never seen on a PC.Is the gorilla tired yet?0 -
Phht. Imagine basing a purchase purely on need. It's getting what you want that counts!ChrisAOnABike wrote:I can't justify 2-3k for a desktop PC when I really only need to spend less than half that much.
None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0
