Mallorca Challenge (SPOILER!!!!!)

2

Comments

  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Yeah perhaps. Howard's also an ex-trackie and kows that you just dont make that schoolboy error when lungeing for the line
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Greipel looking over. Got a few more superb shots of these lunges.

    tumblr_m75pz2FYLC1rz307wo1_1280.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    I'd be interested in knowing what the 'physics' is behind a lunge on a bike. Person standing on wheely thing pushes wheely thing forward... what are they pushing back against to get the 'extra' movement forwards? Can anyone explain?

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,244
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    I'd be interested in knowing what the 'physics' is behind a lunge on a bike. Person standing on wheely thing pushes wheely thing forward... what are they pushing back against to get the 'extra' movement forwards? Can anyone explain?

    Their own momentum?
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    I'd be interested in knowing what the 'physics' is behind a lunge on a bike. Person standing on wheely thing pushes wheely thing forward... what are they pushing back against to get the 'extra' movement forwards? Can anyone explain?

    Their own momentum?

    I'm confused... their momentum is taking them forward isn't it? How can pushing against it make them go further forward? Please de-thicken me.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,244
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    I'd be interested in knowing what the 'physics' is behind a lunge on a bike. Person standing on wheely thing pushes wheely thing forward... what are they pushing back against to get the 'extra' movement forwards? Can anyone explain?

    Their own momentum?

    I'm confused... their momentum is taking them forward isn't it? How can pushing against it make them go further forward? Please de-thicken me.


    We might be here some time as I'm no expert and you might be quite thick.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    ratsbeyfus wrote:
    I'd be interested in knowing what the 'physics' is behind a lunge on a bike. Person standing on wheely thing pushes wheely thing forward... what are they pushing back against to get the 'extra' movement forwards? Can anyone explain?

    Their own momentum?

    I'm confused... their momentum is taking them forward isn't it? How can pushing against it make them go further forward? Please de-thicken me.


    We might be here some time as I'm no expert and you might be quite thick.

    :lol: I'm really thick when it comes to stuff I don't understand.

    Is there an 'expert' out there who can explain it without resorting to formulas and things. While you're at it, can you enlighten me as to how a can-opener works? It turns, it cuts, it grips... what's going on there?

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,244
    What's Greipel pushing against when he lunges? About 90kgs going at 50mph... There's quite a lot of resistance to the bike going backwards at that point.
    Essentially - disregarding the issue in terms of classic Newtonian physics ("equal and opposite", and all that, that I think you were referring to?) - the throwing of the arms at the finish line (when it works) is a case of rolling the bike forward for a fraction of a second to a speed faster than it was already travelling. Trackies are generally good at it - the Devil race often being the best place to see it action lap after lap. It probably amounts to an advantage of no more than half the length of the forearm... every little helps (as Arthur Smith says he'd say whilst p!ssing on the drowning head of the boss of Tesco's...)!
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    What's Greipel pushing against when he lunges? About 90kgs going at 50mph... There's quite a lot of resistance to the bike going backwards at that point.
    Essentially - disregarding the issue in terms of classic Newtonian physics ("equal and opposite", and all that, that I think you were referring to?) - the throwing of the arms at the finish line (when it works) is a case of rolling the bike forward for a fraction of a second to a speed faster than it was already travelling. Trackies are generally good at it - the Devil race often being the best place to see it action lap after lap. It probably amounts to an advantage of no more than half the length of the forearm... every little helps (as Arthur Smith says he'd say whilst p!ssing on the drowning head of the boss of Tesco's...)!

    That's a great explanation. I'm going to pretend I understand, as I really don't want to seem any more dimmerer, and edge slowly backwards from this thread towards the exit. *whistles*

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Bike's already moving forward towards the line away from the center of rider-bike combo mass. Rider moves body back without moving the centre of the mass, and then uses the power of the extended arm thrust to add sharp acceleration over the line.

    Or summat.
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    I'm gonna use it tomorrow on the commute rather than pedalling.

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,244
    A whole commute of line lunges: excellent.

    People will think you're having seizures - you may well get pulled off by a medic and strapped down. Some us pay good money for that...




    It's good when you get a real sense that everybody in a conversation comes out of it enlightened and fully clued up on a matter.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Bike's already moving forward towards the line away from the center of rider-bike combo mass. Rider moves body back without moving the centre of the mass, and then uses the power of the extended arm thrust to add sharp acceleration over the line.

    Or summat.
    I'm almost in agreement there, except about moving the body back. ?
    I always thought I was flat out with my body weight in the sprinting position and then just before the line I throw the bike "forward" beneath my body weight which is still moving at my flat out speed.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • ratsbeyfus
    ratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    deejay wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Bike's already moving forward towards the line away from the center of rider-bike combo mass. Rider moves body back without moving the centre of the mass, and then uses the power of the extended arm thrust to add sharp acceleration over the line.

    Or summat.
    I'm almost in agreement there, except about moving the body back. ?
    I always thought I was flat out with my body weight in the sprinting position and then just before the line I throw the bike "forward" beneath my body weight which is still moving at my flat out speed.

    Here, let me explain by means of a simple diagram... I think I've got the gist of it now:

    Process.gif

    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,244
    deejay wrote:
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Bike's already moving forward towards the line away from the center of rider-bike combo mass. Rider moves body back without moving the centre of the mass, and then uses the power of the extended arm thrust to add sharp acceleration over the line.

    Or summat.
    I'm almost in agreement there, except about moving the body back. ?
    I always thought I was flat out with my body weight in the sprinting position and then just before the line I throw the bike "forward" beneath my body weight which is still moving at my flat out speed.


    Your bike is going flat out - as powered mostly by your legs (along with some counterweighting and bracing with the rest of your body): I think what RR means is that at the right moment you shift your body slightly in relation to the bike (although I'd say forwards, rather than backwards: you want to maxomise the effect of extending your arms) before throwing it forward in the hope that any extra momentum makes the difference in a tight finish
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ^wot the JR Tolkein of the Forum says
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    We have moving pictures. Not watched them yet, so might be rubbish.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_06kLu8brA4
  • esspeebee
    esspeebee Posts: 174
    It's not about momentum, it's about the centre of mass of the bike+rider. Taking the two as a single entity, it's the centre of mass that'll move at whatever speed you're going. Since the rider is considerably heavier than the bike, the centre of mass of the pair is basically just the centre of the rider. If you push your arms forwards, the front wheel is now further forwards compared to the rider, and it's the rider that keeps going at (roughly) the same speed. You don't gain any speed as such, you just put the front wheel a couple of inches ahead of where it would be, which can make all the difference. You'll lose those inches as soon as you return to normal posture, but by that time you're over the line and it doesn't matter.
  • Cycloslalomeur
    Cycloslalomeur Posts: 349
    I'm fairly thick as well so I just focus on the mass differential. It works because the mass of the rider is so much greater than that of the vehicle. The same thing happens in reverse when you stand up while keeping the power on: the speed of the rider/vehicle system remains unchanged but the bike moves back quite a bit. Yes, I am a wheelsucker and have crashed because of my sins.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    galeria58912-002.jpg

    55k to go.

    Zandio, Madrazo, Serry, Astarloza, Van Emdem, Gesink, Matthews, Cimolai, Thurau y Pfingsten.

    40 seconds over a group of 45.

    I think.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Nice to see Gesink in early season form. He's away with The Angel Madrazo. Small gap to the group.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Turfle wrote:
    Nice to see Gesink in early season form. He's away with The Angel Madrazo. Small gap to the group.


    Blanco giving it some welly this early in the season - good for them
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    45 to go:
    Gesink, Madrazo

    25 seconds to Zandio, Astarloza, Belda, Thurau

    another minute to reduced peloton.

    Looking a bit sprinty to me.
  • inkyfingers
    inkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    I was going to say it could be a good day for Ben Swift considering how well he rode yesterday, but have just read on twitter that he's crashed badly on one of the descents.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Yep, sounds a not so good one. The highs and lows of riding a bike. Get well soon Swifty.

    24k to go.

    The 5 (Belda dropped) are back together, with 30 seconds or so to a reduced peloton.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Gesink and Madrazo go again, and may just have it.

    25 seconds back to the other three. A further 40 seconds to a 40 man peloton.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    A sprint is a-coming.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    And Leigh Howard gets his second win of the week.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    inkyfingers wrote:
    I was going to say it could be a good day for Ben Swift considering how well he rode yesterday, but have just read on twitter that he's crashed badly on one of the descents.

    He's been carted to hospital. If he's broken something, I've lost count of the number of breaks that will be for him over the last 2-3 years.
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    Sky say he went to hospital for precautionary reasons, so I imagine no breakages have been found.

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