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Carbon frames on turbo trainers, can it cause damage?

p1tsep1tse Posts: 694
edited February 2013 in Training, fitness and health
Putting carbon frame bike on turbo trainer can it cause damage from the pressure being held and then if pushing hard out of saddle training make things worst?
Wanted: Cube Streamer/Agree GTC Compact / Pro/ Race : 53cm
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Posts

  • Yes, I've ruined 4 turbos this way.
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    I have no idea but from what im told it voids warranty on almost all bikes and when I asked how would they know I was told that stress cracks around the crank area are a dead giveaway.
    Living MY dream.
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    Carbon frames are fine. Just don't do any daft out of the saddle stuff (regardless of frame material).
    More problems but still living....
  • VTech wrote:
    I have no idea but from what im told it voids warranty on almost all bikes and when I asked how would they know I was told that stress cracks around the crank area are a dead giveaway.

    Who told you that load of bollacks?
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    Each and every one of the many bike companies ive spoken too. (carbon bikes)
    Living MY dream.
  • StrithStrith Posts: 541
    Is there an echo in here?
  • ShutUpLegsShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    VTech wrote:
    I have no idea but from what im told it voids warranty on almost all bikes and when I asked how would they know I was told that stress cracks around the crank area are a dead giveaway.

    Who told you that load of bollacks?

    The forums appear to have been invaded by morons :lol:
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    But who is it your refering too, me or the bollack guy ? :)
    Living MY dream.
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    I do not doubt that the manufacturers state it voids the warranty, but that fact in itself does not actually prove that the turbo would adversely affect a carbon frame.

    I tend to work on the common sense principle, and for me I see nothing going on via a turbo that does not go on when road riding (yes I know the rear wheel is clamped in).

    I use my carbon bike on the turbo and if it does fail then I guess we will have some evidence - until then I intend to use it however I see fit.
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    I wasnt telling you off for using your bike on the trainer, simply saying what I had been told and how the manufacturer will see it if it fails.
    Living MY dream.
  • smidsysmidsy Posts: 5,273
    VTech wrote:
    I wasnt telling you off for using your bike on the trainer, simply saying what I had been told and how the manufacturer will see it if it fails.

    I did not think you were :)

    I am quite happy to be wrong too, but for me once I have reasoned something through I go with my deductions and live with the consequences (mind you I have been divorced twice) :shock:
    Yellow is the new Black.
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    smidsy wrote:
    VTech wrote:
    I wasnt telling you off for using your bike on the trainer, simply saying what I had been told and how the manufacturer will see it if it fails.

    I did not think you were :)

    I am quite happy to be wrong too, but for me once I have reasoned something through I go with my deductions and live with the consequences (mind you I have been divorced twice) :shock:

    Ouch :|
    Living MY dream.
  • p1tsep1tse Posts: 694
    I asked as I was flicking through manual and noticed a note about carbon frames shouldn't be used in trainers, which didn't surprise me but made me think about it

    Thanks so if used sensibly should be fine
    Wanted: Cube Streamer/Agree GTC Compact / Pro/ Race : 53cm
  • hstileshstiles Posts: 414
    I only have the one road bike and it's carbon, so it has to go on the trainer. Make a point of minimizing lateral movement and focussing on keeping upper body as still as possible and pedalling smoothly. It'll do wonders for your time trialling.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    Errhhh... so putting a carbon bike on a turbo causes more stress to the frame than say hitting a deep pothole at 40mph?
    Simon
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    Errhhh... so putting a carbon bike on a turbo causes more stress to the frame than say hitting a deep pothole at 40mph?

    You dont hit a pothole 80-120 times a minute for 2 hours !
    Living MY dream.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,733
    VTech wrote:
    Errhhh... so putting a carbon bike on a turbo causes more stress to the frame than say hitting a deep pothole at 40mph?

    You dont hit a pothole 80-120 times a minute for 2 hours !

    Let's hope not, eh. I think the point being made was that the frame experiences significantly more stress out on a road ride than it ever would on a turbo.
  • markp80markp80 Posts: 444
    VTech wrote:
    when I asked how would they know I was told that stress cracks around the crank area are a dead giveaway.
    - or a dead giveaway of a strong pedaller, or just a lot of use - or a faulty frame! I think they'd have a tough time proving the cause of cracks in that highly-stressed area when they're in front of the small claims court for not honouring a warranty.
    Cheers,
    MarkP
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    I didnt intend my comments to be argumentative, just passing on what I was told.
    I personally wouldnt do it although I am soooooo tempted as I just want to ride the thing so ive stuck with the bmx on the trainer for the minute and will simply buy a cheaper road bike for the trainer when I find one at the right money.
    Living MY dream.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,733
    VTech wrote:
    so ive stuck with the bmx on the trainer

    BMX on a turbo - that's got to be worth posting a pic, surely ?
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    I can do that :)
    Living MY dream.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    VTech wrote:
    Errhhh... so putting a carbon bike on a turbo causes more stress to the frame than say hitting a deep pothole at 40mph?

    You don't hit a pothole 80-120 times a minute for 2 hours !

    Do they also put warnings out stating that they don't recommend using their frames if you are a very strong sprinter?

    I mean, is there a maximum wattage rating for the frame before it snaps?

    A decent sprinter maybe putting out 2000-2500 watts on the road; I would guess the average Joe Blogs peaks at more like 800 watts on a trainer, which is a 3x difference.
    Then there is the weight consideration.. Does a 10 stone man put the same stress on the frame as opposed to a 20 stone man?

    What I stating is that as with all things in life, a little bit of practical thinking / common sense is the order of the day.
    Simon
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    VTech wrote:
    Errhhh... so putting a carbon bike on a turbo causes more stress to the frame than say hitting a deep pothole at 40mph?

    You don't hit a pothole 80-120 times a minute for 2 hours !

    Do they also put warnings out stating that they don't recommend using their frames if you are a very strong sprinter?

    I mean, is there a maximum wattage rating for the frame before it snaps?

    A decent sprinter maybe putting out 2000-2500 watts on the road; I would guess the average Joe Blogs peaks at more like 800 watts on a trainer, which is a 3x difference.
    Then there is the weight consideration.. Does a 10 stone man put the same stress on the frame as opposed to a 20 stone man?

    What I stating is that as with all things in life, a little bit of practical thinking / common sense is the order of the day.


    The problem is that it doesnt always work like that. I work with carbon myself (not making but in my industry) and there is a difference between free and fixed motion.
    On like for like, I doubt a 10 or 20 stone man would cause as much stress on the road as he would on a trainer at the "fixing" point, in fact I absolutely guarantee it.
    Living MY dream.
  • markp80markp80 Posts: 444
    VTech wrote:
    I didnt intend my comments to be argumentative, just passing on what I was told.
    quote]
    I didn't personally take them that way, I was just saying how I would react if a manufacturer tried to fob me off, I wasn't having a go at you.
    VTech wrote:
    Iso ive stuck with the bmx on the trainer for the minute.
    :shock: Respect!!!
    Boardman Road Comp - OK, I went to Halfords
    Tibia plateau fracture - the rehab continues!
  • johncpjohncp Posts: 302
    If you haven't got a headwind you're not trying hard enough
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    VTech wrote:

    The problem is that it doesnt always work like that. I work with carbon myself (not making but in my industry) and there is a difference between free and fixed motion.
    On like for like, I doubt a 10 or 20 stone man would cause as much stress on the road as he would on a trainer at the "fixing" point, in fact I absolutely guarantee it.

    As a FYI
    One of carbons failings is that it is perceived as being not particularly stiff unless designed correctly. Aluminium is a much stiffer material with a lot less give.
    With this in mind, you are better off on a turbo on a carbon, Ti or steel frame bike rather than on an Aluminium.

    I know many people who own turbos, with bikes made form all sorts of materials... for most of them, they are completely oblivious to the stresses that any form of riding puts on a frame or any other component... they just ride unaware of the technicalities.
    I have not yet meet a person who has stated they have damaged their bike by riding on a turbo. If you are really concerned, maybe the Kurt Rock an Roll is the turbo for you.
    Simon
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    VTech wrote:

    The problem is that it doesnt always work like that. I work with carbon myself (not making but in my industry) and there is a difference between free and fixed motion.
    On like for like, I doubt a 10 or 20 stone man would cause as much stress on the road as he would on a trainer at the "fixing" point, in fact I absolutely guarantee it.

    As a FYI
    One of carbons failings is that it is perceived as being not particularly stiff unless designed correctly. Aluminium is a much stiffer material with a lot less give.
    With this in mind, you are better off on a turbo on a carbon, Ti or steel frame bike rather than on an Aluminium.

    I know many people who own turbos, with bikes made form all sorts of materials... for most of them, they are completely oblivious to the stresses that any form of riding puts on a frame or any other component... they just ride unaware of the technicalities.
    I have not yet meet a person who has stated they have damaged their bike by riding on a turbo. If you are really concerned, maybe the Kurt Rock an Roll is the turbo for you.

    This has turned into a great debate but again, my only reason for not putting mine on is that i would prefer to fit a cheaper bike to it, I am looking for a cheaper bike on ebay and if thats carbon or alloy I am happy to use that.
    Obviously a turbo with a fixed point will add more stress to that point but wether or not to a level that could cause damage is something I dont know and as you mention above, would it be any worse with other materials ?
    I come into contact with lots of carbon, very high end carbon and from my experience the damage is rarely from abuse of stress but rather from impact which backs your theory.
    Living MY dream.
  • springtide9springtide9 Posts: 1,731
    VTech wrote:
    This has turned into a great debate but again, my only reason for not putting mine on is that i would prefer to fit a cheaper bike to it, I am looking for a cheaper bike on ebay and if thats carbon or alloy I am happy to use that.
    Obviously a turbo with a fixed point will add more stress to that point but wether or not to a level that could cause damage is something I dont know and as you mention above, would it be any worse with other materials ?
    I come into contact with lots of carbon, very high end carbon and from my experience the damage is rarely from abuse of stress but rather from impact which backs your theory.

    You obviously have yet to experience hitting a pothole at 40+mph :-) When you do, the sound will be like the whole bike is about to explode, but don't worry, you can then stop treating your carbon dream machine as a fragile work of art, and realise that they really are pretty strong.

    Check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z1fSpZNXhU

    It's not a debate, just people trying to explain to you that your fears of breakage is unfounded, and there is no requirement to waste your money on a second bike (although a second wheel is useful)

    But it's your money, so buy another bike if it makes you feel happy.
    Simon
  • VTechVTech Posts: 4,736
    Loved that video :)
    Living MY dream.
  • ShutUpLegsShutUpLegs Posts: 3,522
    VTech wrote:
    Loved that video :)

    More attention seeking
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