What to eat during long trainings

ivanoile

So this year I will have to train more than last year cause I moved to another catogorie.So I'm interested what is good to eat during longer trainings,something simple that can be done at home or something cheap form etc. Wiggle.
And of course what is good to eat during races?
For races I thought some SiS bars or similar but for training I would like something home made that fits in rear pocket.
As I don't have much expirence with long races(I only raced in 60-70km races,but this year distance is about 120-130km)

ivanoile

Uh,I also forgot to ask,what is good to eat after hard rides?I saw that few riders take proteins after trainings.

simon_e

If you don't want to pay through the nose then go to the supermarket, not Wiggle.

Training - flapjacks, bananas, Snickers, Eat Natural or Nak'd bars, fig rolls, raisins or dried apricots.

Racing - stuff that you can & digest easily, low in fat. Energy drink (or flat coke), gels or jelly babies if the race is long enough.

After training have a banana milkshake, scrambled eggs or tuna & pasta but also get lots of fresh vegetables and fruit. A recovery shake can help if you have consecutive days of heavy training or races.

team47b

During a long session you need about 30-60grams of carbs per hour (the body can only process about 60 max so don't overdo it) I suggest real food not processed, mix of simple and complex carbs.

After a long session eat protein with carbohydrate within thirty minutes of exercise this will really increase your insulin response which will restore your glycogen stores in your muscles and liver. The best combination is 4:1 four grams of carbohydrate for every one gram of protein.

Trev The Rev

team47b wrote:

During a long session you need about 30-60grams of carbs per hour (the body can only process about 60 max so don't overdo it) I suggest real food not processed, mix of simple and complex carbs.

After a long session eat protein with carbohydrate within thirty minutes of exercise this will really increase your insulin response which will restore your glycogen stores in your muscles and liver. The best combination is 4:1 four grams of carbohydrate for every one gram of protein.

What do you mean by a long session?

team47b

Sorry should have qualified my suggestion with...

assuming you have a good diet and you have eaten before setting off most people can go 90 minutes before all glucose in system is used up and glycogen stores emptied and will then need to replenish glucose at around 30-60 grams of carbs per hour etc

Disclaimer...obviously this is an average and doesn't take into account serious hills/headwinds/fitness levels/weight/diabetes/number of days in a row and was a suggestion to the question about the unspecified length of the "during long trainings" asked.

alihisgreat

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

Trev The Rev

team47b wrote:

Sorry should have qualified my suggestion with...

assuming you have a good diet and you have eaten before setting off most people can go 90 minutes before all glucose in system is used up and glycogen stores emptied and will then need to replenish glucose at around 30-60 grams of carbs per hour etc

Disclaimer...obviously this is an average and doesn't take into account serious hills/headwinds/fitness levels/weight/diabetes/number of days in a row and was a suggestion to the question about the unspecified length of the "during long trainings" asked.

I think you will find it is more like 2 hours even if you have not eaten for 12 hours. Almost all the tests are done on fasted subjects so they have not eaten for 12 hours, and even then there are no performance benefits for 90 minutes to about 2 hours. If you had eaten closer to the session you would not require carbs for even longer.

thegreatdivide

Here we go again...

alihisgreat

Trev The Rev wrote:

team47b wrote:

Sorry should have qualified my suggestion with...

assuming you have a good diet and you have eaten before setting off most people can go 90 minutes before all glucose in system is used up and glycogen stores emptied and will then need to replenish glucose at around 30-60 grams of carbs per hour etc

Disclaimer...obviously this is an average and doesn't take into account serious hills/headwinds/fitness levels/weight/diabetes/number of days in a row and was a suggestion to the question about the unspecified length of the "during long trainings" asked.

I think you will find it is more like 2 hours even if you have not eaten for 12 hours. Almost all the tests are done on fasted subjects so they have not eaten for 12 hours, and even then there are no performance benefits for 90 minutes to about 2 hours. If you had eaten closer to the session you would not require carbs for even longer.

Lets see these tests then.. I wouldn't be surprised if you've just done a standard Trev and taken something irrelevant way out of context.

Trev The Rev

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

team47b wrote:

Sorry should have qualified my suggestion with...

assuming you have a good diet and you have eaten before setting off most people can go 90 minutes before all glucose in system is used up and glycogen stores emptied and will then need to replenish glucose at around 30-60 grams of carbs per hour etc

Disclaimer...obviously this is an average and doesn't take into account serious hills/headwinds/fitness levels/weight/diabetes/number of days in a row and was a suggestion to the question about the unspecified length of the "during long trainings" asked.

I think you will find it is more like 2 hours even if you have not eaten for 12 hours. Almost all the tests are done on fasted subjects so they have not eaten for 12 hours, and even then there are no performance benefits for 90 minutes to about 2 hours. If you had eaten closer to the session you would not require carbs for even longer.

Lets see these tests then.. I wouldn't be surprised if you've just done a standard Trev and taken something irrelevant way out of context.

If you don't agree and think I am wrong - prove it. Rather than attack me attack the argument.

Here you are.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3525502


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6390613

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6350247

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3053587

No one is saying carbohydrate does not work for events lasting over about 2 hours, carbs enable you to carry on longer, that is rather different to carbohydrate allowing better performance over races lasting less than 2 hours.

NB; these results are after a 12 hour fast, it is probable carbohydrate would not help for even longer if the subjects had taken on carbohydrate closer to the tests.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18202575


http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 5.full.pdf

ivanoile

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

I have to eat something after hour or two,at least for me.Because my avg. training is about 90min with some intervals or more hills.Of course there are trainings with over 3 hours but they are rare on winter.
I just wanted to know what is good to eat,because I want to try many things to see what will suit me best.

Thank you all for advices

mamba80

I like to eat whole meal toast and peanut butter after a 2h + ride, if it coincides with lunch - then scrambled eggs yum yum - washed down with some milk.
A racing cyclist will always eat heathly so wont - usually - need all this protein suplement.

As for eating and training, maybe a a banana or jam sandwich before hand, if its under 2 hrs, no matter what the session, i will only drink and that will be some fruit juice and water - 5part water juice.

you ve answered your own question though - try many things and see what suits you you but i do not believe you need gels and so called energy bars, they just rot your teeth and make you fat.

petemadoc

Trev The Rev wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

team47b wrote:

Sorry should have qualified my suggestion with...

assuming you have a good diet and you have eaten before setting off most people can go 90 minutes before all glucose in system is used up and glycogen stores emptied and will then need to replenish glucose at around 30-60 grams of carbs per hour etc

Disclaimer...obviously this is an average and doesn't take into account serious hills/headwinds/fitness levels/weight/diabetes/number of days in a row and was a suggestion to the question about the unspecified length of the "during long trainings" asked.

I think you will find it is more like 2 hours even if you have not eaten for 12 hours. Almost all the tests are done on fasted subjects so they have not eaten for 12 hours, and even then there are no performance benefits for 90 minutes to about 2 hours. If you had eaten closer to the session you would not require carbs for even longer.

Lets see these tests then.. I wouldn't be surprised if you've just done a standard Trev and taken something irrelevant way out of context.

If you don't agree and think I am wrong - prove it. Rather than attack me attack the argument.

Here you are.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3525502


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6390613

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6350247

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3053587

No one is saying carbohydrate does not work for events lasting over about 2 hours, carbs enable you to carry on longer, that is rather different to carbohydrate allowing better performance over races lasting less than 2 hours.

NB; these results are after a 12 hour fast, it is probable carbohydrate would not help for even longer if the subjects had taken on carbohydrate closer to the tests.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18202575


http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 5.full.pdf

Why does every thread in this training section turn into a Trev the Rev special??

I don't give a flying f*ck what links you post or evidence you have. When I as in me, a normal person, goes for a hard ride after about 1 hr 45 mins without food my stomach starts to turn itself inside out and starts screaming FEED ME, FEED ME NOW! I can carry on going but it gets hard, physically and mentally.

So, my anecdotal case would suggest that if you're going to ride hard for 2+ hours it's a good idea to eat some jelly babies. And they taste fecking lovely hmmmmmm Jelly babies. but you know, flapjacks or a cake are nice too.

Tom_UK

I found this online and made some and they are really nice,

http://www.mumsnet.com/Recipes/i/1329-S ... -flapjacks

I use raisens and cranberrys and olive oil though works well, I find breaking them up into bits and just having a mouthfull every 20-30 mins and a carb drink on a long ride works for me.

Ignore the dont eat unless its a ride over 4 hours rubbish If you want poor performance you crack on eating nothing, im guessing you never ride over 2 hours because you need to get back and puff your chest on a forum to boost that ego? Everyone is different so maybe try and help a little as that is what a forum is for?

alihisgreat

Trev The Rev wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

team47b wrote:

Sorry should have qualified my suggestion with...

assuming you have a good diet and you have eaten before setting off most people can go 90 minutes before all glucose in system is used up and glycogen stores emptied and will then need to replenish glucose at around 30-60 grams of carbs per hour etc

Disclaimer...obviously this is an average and doesn't take into account serious hills/headwinds/fitness levels/weight/diabetes/number of days in a row and was a suggestion to the question about the unspecified length of the "during long trainings" asked.

I think you will find it is more like 2 hours even if you have not eaten for 12 hours. Almost all the tests are done on fasted subjects so they have not eaten for 12 hours, and even then there are no performance benefits for 90 minutes to about 2 hours. If you had eaten closer to the session you would not require carbs for even longer.

Lets see these tests then.. I wouldn't be surprised if you've just done a standard Trev and taken something irrelevant way out of context.

If you don't agree and think I am wrong - prove it. Rather than attack me attack the argument.

Here you are.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3525502


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6390613

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6350247

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3053587

No one is saying carbohydrate does not work for events lasting over about 2 hours, carbs enable you to carry on longer, that is rather different to carbohydrate allowing better performance over races lasting less than 2 hours.

NB; these results are after a 12 hour fast, it is probable carbohydrate would not help for even longer if the subjects had taken on carbohydrate closer to the tests.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18202575


http://jn.nutrition.org/content/early/2 ... 5.full.pdf

So tell me how they're relevant to the question in hand again?

The OP asked what to eat on longer rides... its been suggested that he ingests carbs after 60-90mins

A suggestion that isn't at odds with the literature you've provided.

In fact Team47b probably hits the mark when saying that you need to start at 60-90 mins rather than the 120mins that you suggest. Most people don't use a steady stream of fast-access carbohydrates in training.. you're not going to be wanting to spend the cash on gels for training.. so you're more likely to eat slow release carbs in normal food which take longer to access and as such eating after 60-90mins seems sensible.

Trev The Rev

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

Now that would be daft. All the evidence points to about 2 hours being the point where ingesting carbs is beneficial to performance.

alihisgreat

Trev The Rev wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

Now that would be daft. All the evidence points to about 2 hours being the point where ingesting carbs is beneficial to performance.

You've got to look pro.

Other things that made you look pro:

-fasting for 12 hours before rides
-taking placebo drinks
-not eating ant of those evil energy products that the Satanist and/or illuminati cycling media have brainwashed everyone into thinking they need.
-being a really really fast cyclist
-being really skinny and really fast

rsands

lol Trev The Rev you would be better out cycling instead of coming up with rubbish. Just because these studies you find say XYZ doesnt mean it applies to everyone XYZ. Its not about the physical gains every time as you post with these studies...mentally feeling hungry is different in everyone...mentally that beats you and mind over matter is the killer. Physically i can cycle but as soon as I mentally say I am done i dont care if my legs scream keep going...my mind is made up that i am out. Feeling starved is the point...and that is not measureable as a fixed thing as everyones mind over matter is different. So again these studies are a general view of the subjects being tested.

have Sky or someone not signed you up yet?

Trev The Rev

rsands wrote:

lol Trev The Rev you would be better out cycling instead of coming up with rubbish. Just because these studies you find say XYZ doesnt mean it applies to everyone XYZ. Its not about the physical gains every time as you post with these studies...mentally feeling hungry is different in everyone...mentally that beats you and mind over matter is the killer. Physically i can cycle but as soon as I mentally say I am done i dont care if my legs scream keep going...my mind is made up that i am out. Feeling starved is the point...and that is not measureable as a fixed thing as everyones mind over matter is different. So again these studies are a general view of the subjects being tested.

have Sky or someone not signed you up yet?

You ought to try carbohydrate mouth rinsing.

SBezza

To the OP, make some flapjacks, using whatever takes your fancy, I usually use nuts, seeds and dried fruit in mine. Very cheap to make and they stay solid in your pockets, wrap them in tin foil and they are easy to get out of the packaging as well.

For 90 mins you really shouldn't need any food in all honesty, as long as you eat a normal balanced diet, your glycogen stores will not run out if full on a 90 min ride, even at a hard Z3 pace you will still be burning fat alongside the glycogen. If you were burning glycogen only (at threshold level and above) you would probably have 2 hours worth, though you wouldn't be able to do 2 hours at threshold ;-)

Feeling hungry and needing food as fuel are 2 different things really, most people probably don't need to actually eat after 90 mins, though if they get really hungry eating obviously is preferable. As for 4 hour training rides without food, as long as you eat before the ride it is perfectly possible to do this without much of a performance issue, though racing is another thing.

ivanoile

Thanks again for all help

I don't really need to eat on shorter trainings -- 90mins,but I have a lot of things to do after trainings and I need to be focused on that cause home I don't have much time to eat.Almost never felt hungry on bike,but needing fuel almost all the time on long rides.Especialy by summer.Winter is a bit nicer to my energy

rsands

Trev The Rev wrote:

You ought to try carbohydrate mouth rinsing.

lol

Trev The Rev

rsands wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

You ought to try carbohydrate mouth rinsing.

lol

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01527266

Several studies have reported that carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion can improve performance during exercise of short duration (less than 60 min). However, there is no apparent metabolic explanation for this observation because endogenous CHO stores should not be a limiting factor during short duration exercise. Nonetheless, several groups have attempted to investigate CHO administration during short duration exercise with varying results. When CHO was administered intravenously, no performance effect was observed despite greater plasma glucose availability (5). Therefore, it was suggested that during exercise of short duration, exogenous CHO ingestion may exert its ergogenic effect by action through the central nervous system, possibly mediated by glucose receptors in the mouth. The latter has been investigated using a CHO-mouth rinse, whereby the CHO solution is spat out to remove any influence of the gut on exogenous CHO oxidation or performance. Using this rinse, studies have demonstrated results both for (5, 16), and against (1, 19) any improvement in short duration exercise performance when compared with a placebo. The discrepancy in the findings may be due to testing subjects in the fed (1) or fasted-state (5), when liver glycogen stores may be compromised. However, no study has tested subjects in both the fasted and fed-state using a CHO-mouth rinse. It remains to be determined whether CHO-mouth rinse is only effective at improving short duration exercise performance when subjects are in the fasted, compared with the fed-state. The investigators will test the hypothesis that CHO-mouth rinse improves performance in the fasted-state only compared with a placebo-rinse.

alihisgreat

Trev The Rev wrote:

rsands wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

You ought to try carbohydrate mouth rinsing.

lol

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01527266

Several studies have reported that carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion can improve performance during exercise of short duration (less than 60 min). However, there is no apparent metabolic explanation for this observation because endogenous CHO stores should not be a limiting factor during short duration exercise. Nonetheless, several groups have attempted to investigate CHO administration during short duration exercise with varying results. When CHO was administered intravenously, no performance effect was observed despite greater plasma glucose availability (5). Therefore, it was suggested that during exercise of short duration, exogenous CHO ingestion may exert its ergogenic effect by action through the central nervous system, possibly mediated by glucose receptors in the mouth. The latter has been investigated using a CHO-mouth rinse, whereby the CHO solution is spat out to remove any influence of the gut on exogenous CHO oxidation or performance. Using this rinse, studies have demonstrated results both for (5, 16), and against (1, 19) any improvement in short duration exercise performance when compared with a placebo. The discrepancy in the findings may be due to testing subjects in the fed (1) or fasted-state (5), when liver glycogen stores may be compromised. However, no study has tested subjects in both the fasted and fed-state using a CHO-mouth rinse. It remains to be determined whether CHO-mouth rinse is only effective at improving short duration exercise performance when subjects are in the fasted, compared with the fed-state. The investigators will test the hypothesis that CHO-mouth rinse improves performance in the fasted-state only compared with a placebo-rinse.

can you give me a homemade carb-mouthwash recipe? I don't want to give my money to the evil energy drink companies.

Strith

Trev The Rev wrote:

rsands wrote:

Trev The Rev wrote:

You ought to try carbohydrate mouth rinsing.

lol

http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT01527266

Several studies have reported that carbohydrate (CHO) ingestion can improve performance during exercise of short duration (less than 60 min). However, there is no apparent metabolic explanation for this observation because endogenous CHO stores should not be a limiting factor during short duration exercise. Nonetheless, several groups have attempted to investigate CHO administration during short duration exercise with varying results. When CHO was administered intravenously, no performance effect was observed despite greater plasma glucose availability (5). Therefore, it was suggested that during exercise of short duration, exogenous CHO ingestion may exert its ergogenic effect by action through the central nervous system, possibly mediated by glucose receptors in the mouth. The latter has been investigated using a CHO-mouth rinse, whereby the CHO solution is spat out to remove any influence of the gut on exogenous CHO oxidation or performance. Using this rinse, studies have demonstrated results both for (5, 16), and against (1, 19) any improvement in short duration exercise performance when compared with a placebo. The discrepancy in the findings may be due to testing subjects in the fed (1) or fasted-state (5), when liver glycogen stores may be compromised. However, no study has tested subjects in both the fasted and fed-state using a CHO-mouth rinse. It remains to be determined whether CHO-mouth rinse is only effective at improving short duration exercise performance when subjects are in the fasted, compared with the fed-state. The investigators will test the hypothesis that CHO-mouth rinse improves performance in the fasted-state only compared with a placebo-rinse.

Did they try pouring it over their heads? I find 200ml of High5 over my head works wonders.

cocksey

Got to agree with eating after 90 mins, if i know i'm going to be out longer than 2.5 hours i'll take something with me, flapjack, jelly babies, cheap options. I'm on a bit of robinsons and water otherwise! The way i think is that if you're going to be taking this stuff on during races you should be training under the same cirumstances. Occasionally it's been said to ride fasted as it can help with how your body utilises fat for energy. But go out for too long when you're not used to it and you're in for a long ride home once you've bonked(we've all done it... )

mclarent

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

+1

thegreatdivide

mclarent wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

+1

Bollox.

imposter2.0

thegreatdivide wrote:

mclarent wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

rule #91 - no food on training rides under four hours.

+1

Bollox.

Exactly. What if your training ride is 4hrs 15mins. When should you be eating?

mclarent

Before you leave and when you get home. Last Sunday I did 3hr50 on half a bottle of water and a coffee.